Great News

[bowaholic]

Maybe your right , but based on what I read on this forum it appears almost everyone hides in a tree Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

really you get that out of this forum? I get out of it everyone is PMSing at the same time!! hahaha  (sorry to offend any woman hunters out there)

[bowaholic]

I shot my first two bucks off the ground because I was/am afraid of heights...got over that because I prefer a good ambush and elevated position. Different strokes...but you claim to be "better-than" with everything you do when really you seem as mediocre as the rest of us...if anything just more willing to pay people to take you hunting and criticizing anyone who does it different. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When you have NY Outdoor News write an article about you, your hunting adventures and HARVESTS then you can throw him under the buss like that....until then, go climb a tree bud 

[burmjohn]

Keep it clean please...  Don't ask for much around here.

 

If you want to have a one on one deal do it off the site, you can exchange emails via PM.

[BizCT]

Go Red Sox!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vince1]

I'll be honest about my feelings regarding hunter density. The story is two part. When it comes to gun hunting, I want as many guys out there as possible. My success generally is dependent on hunters, on their feet making deer travel escape routes which my years of experience have helped me locate. That is a deadly combination of pressure and ambush. It works well in gun season because while escape corridors can be way too wide for bowhunting, I have found several pinch points that confine their travel to very good gun range. During gun season, you will often here me whining about the lack of hunters and hunter movement. So far, I have never seen a gun season where I felt there was "too much" pressure.

 

Bow season has always been a whole different kind of thing. Because of the nature of the bow, I cannot have deer running around totally spooked  and ignoring all the patterns that I have carefully learned during my scouting activities. I have to know where the deer are likely to be and when. No, there are no guarantees, and some years I do a better job of scouting and interpretation of sign than others, but my success or failure is based solely on my own efforts. I do not expect someone to drive the deer to me. I do not count on random interceptions based completely on luck and the fact that someone or some group has pushed deer in my direction. I try to keep my shots down to a very reliable 25 yards and under. You cannot do that if you are counting on random lucky opportunities. So if the hunter density increases significantly, scouting, patterning, and success goes out the window as conditions start approaching more of the gun season types of scenarios. Now this doesn't mean that I need a huge area exclusively to myself. And it really doesn't mean that an occasional accidental interference from another hunter will never happen. But there is some threshold where the pattern interrupting encounters cross over from the rare and occasional to constant and frequent. The latter is the condition of bow hunting that I would consider excessive density. And that is the condition that I fear with the insertion of crossbows into bow season. I also am guessing that crossbow hunters may be more mobile hunters particularly if they are of heavy gun experience and training. That too would have them doing much more disruption of patterns and more frequent hunt-busting. It could even create premature nocturnal movement in the herd which is death for a bowhunter. Now I'm not sure whether any of this is selfishness or not. I consider it a differentiation between conditions required for bow hunting and conditions required for gun hunting, and I hate to see the two intermixed because I do not believe that the two can successfully coexist and still maintain the bow hunting quality of the hunt.

 

That was the primary reason that I got into bowhunting. It was the one style of hunting where I could successfully use skill and close understanding of local deer movements to apply some intellect to my hunting instead of just the random acts of blind luck of having someone accidently push a deer in front of me as is the case for gun hunting. So I took on the very demanding challenge of learning the use of a very difficult weapon and entered a hunt that was limited in numbers of participants because of the demands of the weapon. The complexity of efficiently using the weapon kept the population of participants in balance with the requirements of the sport. Certainly if that all was frustrated by massive influxes of hunter density in the woods, I would really have no reason to go out bow hunting anymore. It would then be time to confine my hunting to rifle and use a weapon that was truly fitted to the random encounter style of hunting.

 

Holy crap. This thing has turned into a novel. But so many people ask how the insertion of crossbows could possibly impact my hunting, and I thought it was about time to answer that. That is the honest answer as to why I have opposed crossbows in archery season. I do not do the majority of my hunting on property that I can lock up and keep people off if the numbers spike ridiculously high (as I am convinced they eventually will). I do not have 6 million acres of public land that I can bury myself in to escape whatever radical changes that crossbows may cause in hunter density elsewhere. Yeah, technically it could be called selfish but to me it is the attempt to preserve a way of hunting that now runs the risk of being trashed. I suppose it's not really a huge deal for me because I likely don't have that much more time in the sport. But as long as I am participating, I feel the need to protect what has been so central to my life for five decades. Selfish or merely the defense of a cherished style of hunting .... who knows?

 

not to derail an argument...

 

but this is exactly how I feel. mind you I just started hunting but I chose a recurve for the skill involved in shooting one.

 

I hunted sterling forest bow season last year. hiked in like a mile and a half and didn't see ANYONE not one time I was on huntable ground. when I would leave I always saw a few cars scattered here and there. but not a path crossed.

 

switched to mainly Westchester in rifle and late season and though I did see plenty of deer some days when there were not a lot of hunters around the deer were nice and calm... now on days when there were a bunch of guys pushing deer around with compounds in hand the deer were MOVING and once they stopped never saw a deer.

 

after they pushed to me the second time and then back i figured i would move to where i new they were gonna go. so i did and like clockwork here they came. this time they pushed 3 deer straight to me but i only had about a 5 to 10 second window and i wasn't all the way up in my tree.

 

truly pissed me off. they moved past me with no regard for my hunting. it public and everyone has a right to hunt the way they want but MAN i was pissed. figure with xbows there will be a lot more of that from the gun guys and the new guys.

 

such is life i guess, gotta learn to go with the flow

[Doc]

figure with xbows there will be a lot more of that from the gun guys and the new guys.

 

such is life i guess, gotta learn to go with the flow

That was my point. The entire nature of a bowhunt will be impacted. How badly remains to be seen, but I am thinking it will be significant in a lot of different places. But like you said, you either learn to go with the flow or get pushed out. Unfortunately, for a lot of different reasons not too many people understand or appreciate how the quality of the hunt could possibly matter so much.

[Meat Manager]

....until then, go climb a tree bud

I like to climb and sit in trees, Biz constantly trash talking people who use treestands prompted my pointing out that he shoots all of his trophies with babysitters and dogs.

Come to think of it...most of what biz shoots has been run for miles and up a tree for him to finish off. Maybe that's why he doesn't want hunters up there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BizCT]

3 cats I killed in my life with dogs. 2 in a tree, 1 on the ground. Let me know when you kill one on your own without dogs.

Like I said before, I don't care if you hunt from a tree, that's your choice. I would find it boring.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Meat Manager]

3 cats I killed in my life with dogs. 2 in a tree, 1 on the ground. Let me know when you kill one on your own without dogs.Like I said before, I don't care if you hunt from a tree, that's your choice. I would find it boring.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not going to waste my time and document it but you are constantly trash talking anything that differs from your methods or opinions.

I'm pretty sure this most recent thing is from an insinuation that "the guys out west laugh..."

No one cares, especially coming from a guy who pays for his kills.

Also I would only shoot a cat if it endangered my life...not interested in your type of hunting.

Several black bear harvests in my family...3 just from my dad including an xbow harvest...fair chase big woods poconos, no guides no dogs no bait.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Meat Manager

[BizCT]

Your paying for your kills too. Don't you lease land? Your paying for a better opportunity to hunt. If I leased prime land in NY, I'm sure I would should bigger bucks, but I'm not interested in paying $ to hunt NY whitetails, so I hunt public land or 8 acres behind an old ladies house for deer that feed on bark lol

My dad has killed black bears in NY, what's your point? It's black bear. Go kill a grizzly in Alaska DIY, oh wait you can't. That would be illegal. You would need to hire a guide.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Meat Manager]

Your paying for your kills too. Don't you lease land? Your paying for a better opportunity to hunt.My dad has killed black bears in NY, what's your point? It's black bear. Go kill a grizzly in Alaska DIY, oh wait you can't. That would be illegal. You would need to hire a guide.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right and the guide would have a rifle even if I was using a bow...exactly why I'll never do it.

Leasing or owning land is not paying for a kill.

My point is if you are willing to use guides and dogs don't trash talk the methods of fair chase hunters.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Meat Manager

[BizCT]

So you must be against all the bowhunters out there who go on guided hunts for sheep, bear, caribou, goats, etc.

Pope and Young and Boone Crockett call it fair chase. I'll take their word over yours. Chasing cats is more fair chase in my opinion than you sitting in a tree stand hunted over bait (food plot)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Meat Manager]

So you must be against all the bowhunters out there who go on guided hunts for sheep, bear, caribou, goats, etcSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not against...I wouldn't do it and I certainly wouldn't take their opinions too seriously if that was the only success they ever had.

I am against paying to shoot black bears on bait barrels...not against baiting black bears in high pop areas though.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Meat Manager

[BizCT]

If you want to discuss more, feel free to PM me. Clearly in your mind, paying for leased land and hunting NY whitetails from a tree stand is the only form of "real hunting". No wonder why you aren't a member of bowsite, where some of the best bowhunters in the world are members.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Meat Manager]

So you must be against all the bowhunters out there who go on guided hunts for sheep, bear, caribou, goats, etc.Pope and Young and Boone Crockett call it fair chase. I'll take their word over yours. Chasing cats is more fair chase in my opinion than you sitting in a tree stand hunted over bait (food plot)Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You can call it what you want...you are paying someone to help you with every aspect but pulling the trigger and one of the help has a rifle as well.

I've never used a food plot before but plan to this season, it is not bait. Again I really don't care how you hunt, I just am sick of your attitude. You are truly a jerk.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Meat Manager]

If you want to discuss more, feel free to PM me. Clearly in your mind, paying for leased land and hunting NY whitetails from a tree stand is the only form of "real hunting". No wonder why you aren't a member of bowsite, where some of the best bowhunters in the world are members.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the last forum I ever joined on 11/1/11...im not interested in anymore stress.

As for best bow hunters...I'm sure I'm not one of them...

That said I've harvested deer with my bow every of the last 4 season...5 deer including a mature buck harvested with my bow just last season...how much luck did you have here in NY lately?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Meat Manager

[BizCT]

You think your better than me and I think I'm better than you. Nothing else to say. Grow up and take it to PM if you want to discuss further, Mrs. Balling.

I shot a NY buck in 5 out of the last 7 years. I don't shoot does. I passed a spike this year opening day at less than 10 yards

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Biz-R-OWorld

[Meat Manager]

You think your better than me and I think I'm better than you. Nothing else to say. Grow up and take it to PM if you want to discuss further, Mrs. Balling.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here's your pm...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 4, 2014 by Meat Manager

[Lawdwaz]

. Bowhunters outside of NY laugh at the fact that guys need to sit in trees to kill animals

 

You really come up with some pearls once in a while.

 

[nyantler]

I'll be honest about my feelings regarding hunter density. The story is two part. When it comes to gun hunting, I want as many guys out there as possible. My success generally is dependent on hunters, on their feet making deer travel escape routes which my years of experience have helped me locate. That is a deadly combination of pressure and ambush. It works well in gun season because while escape corridors can be way too wide for bowhunting, I have found several pinch points that confine their travel to very good gun range. During gun season, you will often here me whining about the lack of hunters and hunter movement. So far, I have never seen a gun season where I felt there was "too much" pressure.

 

Bow season has always been a whole different kind of thing. Because of the nature of the bow, I cannot have deer running around totally spooked  and ignoring all the patterns that I have carefully learned during my scouting activities. I have to know where the deer are likely to be and when. No, there are no guarantees, and some years I do a better job of scouting and interpretation of sign than others, but my success or failure is based solely on my own efforts. I do not expect someone to drive the deer to me. I do not count on random interceptions based completely on luck and the fact that someone or some group has pushed deer in my direction. I try to keep my shots down to a very reliable 25 yards and under. You cannot do that if you are counting on random lucky opportunities. So if the hunter density increases significantly, scouting, patterning, and success goes out the window as conditions start approaching more of the gun season types of scenarios. Now this doesn't mean that I need a huge area exclusively to myself. And it really doesn't mean that an occasional accidental interference from another hunter will never happen. But there is some threshold where the pattern interrupting encounters cross over from the rare and occasional to constant and frequent. The latter is the condition of bow hunting that I would consider excessive density. And that is the condition that I fear with the insertion of crossbows into bow season. I also am guessing that crossbow hunters may be more mobile hunters particularly if they are of heavy gun experience and training. That too would have them doing much more disruption of patterns and more frequent hunt-busting. It could even create premature nocturnal movement in the herd which is death for a bowhunter. Now I'm not sure whether any of this is selfishness or not. I consider it a differentiation between conditions required for bow hunting and conditions required for gun hunting, and I hate to see the two intermixed because I do not believe that the two can successfully coexist and still maintain the bow hunting quality of the hunt.

 

That was the primary reason that I got into bowhunting. It was the one style of hunting where I could successfully use skill and close understanding of local deer movements to apply some intellect to my hunting instead of just the random acts of blind luck of having someone accidently push a deer in front of me as is the case for gun hunting. So I took on the very demanding challenge of learning the use of a very difficult weapon and entered a hunt that was limited in numbers of participants because of the demands of the weapon. The complexity of efficiently using the weapon kept the population of participants in balance with the requirements of the sport. Certainly if that all was frustrated by massive influxes of hunter density in the woods, I would really have no reason to go out bow hunting anymore. It would then be time to confine my hunting to rifle and use a weapon that was truly fitted to the random encounter style of hunting.

 

Holy crap. This thing has turned into a novel. But so many people ask how the insertion of crossbows could possibly impact my hunting, and I thought it was about time to answer that. That is the honest answer as to why I have opposed crossbows in archery season. I do not do the majority of my hunting on property that I can lock up and keep people off if the numbers spike ridiculously high (as I am convinced they eventually will). I do not have 6 million acres of public land that I can bury myself in to escape whatever radical changes that crossbows may cause in hunter density elsewhere. Yeah, technically it could be called selfish but to me it is the attempt to preserve a way of hunting that now runs the risk of being trashed. I suppose it's not really a huge deal for me because I likely don't have that much more time in the sport. But as long as I am participating, I feel the need to protect what has been so central to my life for five decades. Selfish or merely the defense of a cherished style of hunting .... who knows?

LOL.. I was reluctant to add your quote because of the length, but what the heck... our difference of opinion I believe stems from our different styles of hunting. I am sure I would have a similar view if I hunted the same way as you. I don't experience a lot of the negative stuff that other hunters do... I'm not sure if that is because of the places I hunt or my different view of what hunting is... maybe a bit of both. There is probably a bit of selfishness in all of us to some degree that also shapes our opinion as well. I think very little about other hunters during hunting season... I'm too busy hunting and having fun... very few of the new laws and rules passed ever seem to affect me or my hunting experience... as you already know, I do have an opinion on many subjects when it comes to conversation and I certainly like a good debate... but the truth is none of it matters much to me when it comes to my personal hunting experience. Life is too short to let trivial stuff get in the way of the things I enjoy doing.

[phade]

I just bought a crossbow.

 

Crud.

[fasteddie]

I just bought a crossbow.

 

Crud.

 

I will wait until they get the speed up to 500 fps before I buy one . The manufacturers aren't that far away from that now but they had better hurry up as I am not getting any younger ( 72 ) . I could use by Blaze Orange Walker as a rest .

 

[BizCT]

Doubt you'll get 500fps out of An xbow with less than 200lb

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Doc]

LOL.. I was reluctant to add your quote because of the length, but what the heck... our difference of opinion I believe stems from our different styles of hunting. I am sure I would have a similar view if I hunted the same way as you. I don't experience a lot of the negative stuff that other hunters do... I'm not sure if that is because of the places I hunt or my different view of what hunting is... maybe a bit of both. There is probably a bit of selfishness in all of us to some degree that also shapes our opinion as well. I think very little about other hunters during hunting season... I'm too busy hunting and having fun... very few of the new laws and rules passed ever seem to affect me or my hunting experience... as you already know, I do have an opinion on many subjects when it comes to conversation and I certainly like a good debate... but the truth is none of it matters much to me when it comes to my personal hunting experience. Life is too short to let trivial stuff get in the way of the things I enjoy doing.

I agree. I think styles of hunting and conditions where you hunt do form hunter opinions on the crossbow issue. Those that are not impacted because of styles and conditions of bow hunting, and those that have total control of hunter density on their posted or leased lands or those of friends and families that are similarly locked up also have no concerns about what goes on outside of their controlled situations. But there are many of us that do rely on scouting and learning patterns and other tactics that require a fairly unmolested herd that stay true to those daylight feeding and bedding patterns. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to picture what sudden spikes in hunter densities does to a method of bowhunting used for decades by most bowhunters. 

 

Anyway, I keep hearing that question asked as to how the addition of crossbows could ever impact my bowhunting, and I just thought it was about time someone actually explained that. Yes it was lengthy, but there was no other way to answer that question such that it could be understood by anyone who seriously wanted an answer.

[Arrow Flinger]

I agree. I think styles of hunting and conditions where you hunt do form hunter opinions on the crossbow issue. Those that are not impacted because of styles and conditions of bow hunting, and those that have total control of hunter density on their posted or leased lands or those of friends and families that are similarly locked up also have no concerns about what goes on outside of their controlled situations. But there are many of us that do rely on scouting and learning patterns and other tactics that require a fairly unmolested herd that stay true to those daylight feeding and bedding patterns. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to picture what sudden spikes in hunter densities does to a method of bowhunting used for decades by most bowhunters. 

 

Anyway, I keep hearing that question asked as to how the addition of crossbows could ever impact my bowhunting, and I just thought it was about time someone actually explained that. Yes it was lengthy, but there was no other way to answer that question such that it could be understood by anyone who seriously wanted an answer.

 

This is my only concern with the new regs. I love the peace and quiet during bow season. I just hope that doesn't change. It will be a real shame if the best 2 weeks of bow season start to resemble gun season more than bow. I don't have the luxury to hunt hundreds of acres of private land. I'll give my thoughts on the crossbow season after this fall.