Never ceases to amaze me...

[VT Outfitter]

I do not bait the deer and that includes food plots. Everyone complains about the guys buying things to bait the deer yet doesn't have with planting something that doesn't grow naturaly and hunting that. Or how about going into the woods and planting corn or clover or beats to draw the deer in. I am sure those things do not just grow out in the midel of the woods. Growing your bait is no different then growing it still puting something out that isnt usually there and then hunting it.

The corn, soybeans, clover, alfalfa, potatoes and many other crops that have been feed for deer for the last few centuries are not a natural crop, we planted every bit of it.. Here in VT, the cutting of forest for lumber and fire wood has radically declined in the last 50 years. Resulting in a drastic decrease in natural deer food of forest regrowth. So many very large farms that planted thousands of acres of crops have disappeared in Vermont too. So as hunters and conservationists we plant feed for them, we clear property to have different age forest growth for food and bedding, all because we care about the future of our deer herd. Yes we shoot deer that feed in the food plots, but due to legal limits on harvest in every state, there are many more deer that directly benefit from our efforts than what ends up on the table. If there were never any crops planted or forest management for human benefit ever in history, the deer and other wild game would be endangered species. I know that I am not the only conservationist hunter that plants food plots just for winter feed and never hunts that area. I plant brassica mixes here in VT that the deer really only utilize after the deer seasons have ended as freezing temps are what makes this plant appealing to deer. Bottom line, poachers, that only care about killing for their own personal gain, bait deer with the products that are being discussed in this post during deer season. The true sportsman are planting food plots to help promote the success of the deer in their area all year and for future deer generations to come. So, really, legalities aside, you see no difference between planting crops for hunting for all year food sources, and dumping a pile of corn for two weeks of season?

[gjs4]

I think the thread states enough but to take your bait- go to a sporting goods store the week (let alone) day before gun season to see all the well prepared folks. You can also just talk to anyone who is capable of drawing a bow that wants a crossbow.

[gjs4]

I think you should have started that statement with the word "Some"

"The majority"....

[gjs4]

Food plots aren't baiting any more than hunting an oak. What a joke. Just wondering if those of you that fish feel like only certain methods are baiting.

[Paula]

I think the difference it is legal to bait the fish. Not legal to bait deer, legal to have food plots. The difference between food plots and baiting is one is in a pile other is not

[upstate]

double post 

 

Edited July 27, 2014 by upstate

[upstate]

"The majority"....

 

 

Food plots aren't baiting any more than hunting an oak. What a joke. Just wondering if those of you that fish feel like only certain methods are baiting.

 

 

I think the difference it is legal to bait the fish. Not legal to bait deer, legal to have food plots. The difference between food plots and baiting is one is in a pile other is not

 

 

Ny hunters are the laziest do nothing and expect everything bunch there is. Bait, tag cheating, weapon cheating and trespassing (which may be the state sport).... Sad place. No enforcement. Everyone of these hunting stores peddles that krap by the truckload.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

What your point here? 

 

You seem to like to stir the pot. 

 

Four posts and you've added nothing to this conversation 

 

Thanks,

Edited July 27, 2014 by upstate

[ants]

"The majority"....

Where is your info coming from?……. You??….. Or do have stats to back it?

Edited July 27, 2014 by ants

[Paula]

What your point here?

You seem to like to stir the pot.

Four posts and you've added nothing to this conversation

Thanks,

Who are you talking about and where did you come from? I missed what you added

[upstate]

Who are you talking about and where did you come from? I missed what you added

Simmer down, you got caught up in my first multi-quote fail. My post was directed at the other guy. 

 

It's the internet, all is good here. 

[gjs4]

This forum is so full of know it alls. The thread was about ny retailers selling bait and folks buying it in quantity. I added what I wanted- just one more know it alls opinion. Read the references for my thoughts. As for being a pot stirrer... Just anther member of the club.

[stubby68]

I never said farm crops were natural. What I was saying that hunting any crop that is planted buy man is baiting. Those who grow food plots to hunt,hunt on edge of farmers field or dump a bag of beat powder out are all useing unnatural foods to get the deer. If is it ok to hunt over these baits then why is it dif to hunt over a bag of something they bought at walmart?

[chiefbkt]

I never said farm crops were natural. What I was saying that hunting any crop that is planted buy man is baiting. Those who grow food plots to hunt,hunt on edge of farmers field or dump a bag of beat powder out are all useing unnatural foods to get the deer. If is it ok to hunt over these baits then why is it dif to hunt over a bag of something they bought at walmart?

 

No, hunting any crop planted by man is not baiting.  Dumping a pile of corn or feed on the ground for a few weeks where the sole purpose is to hunt over it and harvest an animal is baiting.  I'm sure you're just trying to justify it in your head because that is what you do.   Keep telling yourself it's not baiting.  

 

Food plots, naturally occurring foods, standing agricultural crops, or food that is in place as part of normal farming practices are not considered baiting or feeding.  

 

"Baiting" is defined as putting out food materials for wildlife to attract, lure, or entice them as an aid in hunting. 

[stubby68]

I do not put out bait food plots or hunt farmers fields.

Baiting as you said is defined as putting out food materials for wildlife to attract,lure, or entice them to aid in hunting. That is exactly what a food plot i. A food plot is not a food that is put out as normal farming practice. They are put out for the sole purpose to bring in animals so they can be harvested

[ants]

I never said farm crops were natural. What I was saying that hunting any crop that is planted buy man is baiting. Those who grow food plots to hunt,hunt on edge of farmers field or dump a bag of beat powder out are all useing unnatural foods to get the deer. If is it ok to hunt over these baits then why is it dif to hunt over a bag of something they bought at walmart?

When is the last time you  came across a field of naturally growing, bags of beet powder?

Edited July 28, 2014 by ants

[NFA-ADK]

One of the main reasons baiting is illegal is the fact that has been pointed out by Chiefbkt.  Baiting causes a pile of food and is known to cause disease to spread.  Fact  This is one reason I declined a new lease on property I know hunters bait.  I want no association with this.

 

Crops do not drop all the food in one spot. 

 

Gjs4  You seem to have had a bad experience with some master baiters.  Just because you see a few bad apples does not mean every barrel is bad.  We have some pretty awesome hunters here and many of those same people respect and love the wonderful world of the whitetail and will do everything legal to ensure their survival, this includes planting winter crops and food plots. 

 

Know it all, well if that was the case I would not be here as I am sure many others love to gain knowledge and check out others success in the field along with the pathetically awesome pictures we share. 

 

Please don't be so close minded and realize not everyone fits the profile you paint.  Many of us are conservationist and love the land and animals, this is why we maintain the land for the benefit of our animals and the viewing pleasure they give us.  The benefits those individuals provide for the animals far outweigh the bounty we take. 

 

Yes we argue over many things(We are a stubborn bunch!) but one thing should unite us and that is the love of our land the bounty it provides and the enjoyment it give us.  I just wish that where true...

[jrm]

I was really surprised the first time I saw this kind of thing being sold. It does seem strange that you can sell it, buy it and possess it. You just can't use it for the purpose stated on the packaging. 

 

 

Remember  NYS has one county that ...unless wording was changed..and I haven't heard it has been yet...feeding deer is legal..All due to a court case...but that said what amazes me is...like cops doing road checks on cars...why DEC doesn't set up checks for this stuff at these stores...stop them at their trunks...take names and areas they hunt info..that would deter this stuff and perhaps make these stores free up that floor space for things we can use legally...

 

 

I am not pro-baiting, but the above suggestion is disturbing. DEC checkpoints? Sting operations?

Under the current law, this product is legal to buy, sell and own. Should the police do the same for gun and/or ammo purchases? Why not sit outside home depot and do the same for hammer purchases? After all, these products are capable of being used for illegal purposes. The regular checkpoints for seat belt and paperwork checks are already too much.

 

 

Directly from NYS DEC web site.

 

In New York, it is illegal to feed deer and moose by putting out any material that attracts them to feed.

There are five exceptions to the rule:
1.Agricultural crops including wildlife food plots.
2.Distribution of food to livestock.
3.Distribution of food to captive deer and elk.
4.Cutting of trees and brush.
5.Scientific research, wildlife damage abatement, and wildlife population reduction programs, but only under a permit issued by DEC.

 

That is one of the reasons I do not go back to one spot, the owner was baiting.  Baiting is just below poaching.

 

Could you explain what #4 means? The rest are self-explanatory. I don't understand the reasoning for being able to feed deer while cutting trees/brush.

 

 

I believe the sale of these materials is legal because of the fact that people can buy them for out-of-state hunts. Of course we all know what is really going on, but that is the justification that is used for the legal selling of materials (and equipment) that is illegal for NYS use. Apparently there is not enough opposition to support getting the law amended to include sales.

 

I personally think it is a pretty sad state of affairs when anyone even suggests the regulation of the sale of CORN, regardless of what it says on the outside of the bag or on the store display.

Sort of reminds me of GUN CONTROL, in a way...

 

Which is the part of the problem. Right now, the contents of the bag are not illegal. The marketing/packaging is wrong as they are promoting that the product be used for an illegal purpose. That's like selling a bottle of Vodka as something that will make a good driving experience (although if anyone did that, there would be an outcry against it).

 

If there was a legal move to remove these products from the shelves, they would simply reappear with different packaging. It is probably impossible, and at least inadvisable, to regulate the sale of corn.

 

It still seems odd, however, that stores are able to sell a product (however legal) with packaging that clearly promotes an illegal activity.

Edited July 28, 2014 by jrm

[NFA-ADK]

Look up hinge cutting for #4.

 

http://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/how-to/2013/08/23/the-strategies-of-hinge-cutting

This is a known way of feeding deer, providing cover etc.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 

 

Could you explain what #4 means? The rest are self-explanatory. I don't understand the reasoning for being able to feed deer while cutting trees/brush.

 

hinge cutting. partial cut through and falling of a tree to bring the browse down to an edible height. or the tops left from a logging operation.

[Lawdwaz]

hinge cutting. partial cut through and falling of a tree to bring the browse down to an edible height. or the tops left from a logging operation.

 

Does hinge cutting keep the tree top alive longer for the deer to browse on, I'm assuming it does??

[jrm]

Look up hinge cutting for #4.

 

http://www.mossyoak.com/our-obsession/blogs/how-to/2013/08/23/the-strategies-of-hinge-cutting

This is a known way of feeding deer, providing cover etc.

 

 

Ahh, now it makes sense. I didn't think of hinge cutting as "baiting." I read the original post as "legal to feed deer while cutting trees and brush" as opposed to "legal to cut trees and brush even if doing so creates a food source from those trees and brush." Thanks for the clarification.

[growalot]

 

growalot, on 26 Jul 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

Remember  NYS has one county that ...unless wording was changed..and I haven't heard it has been yet...feeding deer is legal..All due to a court case...but that said what amazes me is...like cops doing road checks on cars...why DEC doesn't set up checks for this stuff at these stores...stop them at their trunks...take names and areas they hunt info..that would deter this stuff and perhaps make these stores free up that floor space for things we can use legally...

 

 

I am not pro-baiting, but the above suggestion is disturbing. DEC checkpoints? Sting operations?

Under the current law, this product is legal to buy, sell and own. Should the police do the same for gun and/or ammo purchases? Why not sit outside home depot and do the same for hammer purchases? After all, these products are capable of being used for illegal purposes. The regular checkpoints for seat belt and paperwork checks are already too much.

 

 

 

 

OK lol for anyone that really knows me would guess ...that was tongue in cheek or better yet a bit of sarcasm in regard to the fact a single court case in a single county magically made feeding...not baiting but feeding deer legal  ONLY in that county...but every where else the DEC can still nail the home owner for deer eating out of their bird feeder or for putting corn cobs out for squirrels.With the firm, we're changing that wording, claim made..was that ever accomplished?

 

Also for most that know me.....  would never think I have enough confidence that the DEC could set up such an operation in the first place....

Edited July 28, 2014 by growalot

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Does hinge cutting keep the tree top alive longer for the deer to browse on, I'm assuming it does??

yes it can. some view that it works better if you can uproot it but this is a way to pull it off with only a chainsaw. Two fold benefit. The hinge cut itself and the opening of the canopy to allow new growth.  

[stubby68]

I never a bag of beats was natural. Farmers have been known to leave some rows of corn standing to draw the deer in for hunting,or even leave a few piles of corn or a bail of hay or 2 out on the edge of fields that hunt.just because is is a farmers field with a pile of corn or a few rows of corn left does not mean they are not useing that left behind feed as bait. The piles didn't get there naturaly and when asked the farmer will say I left the standing corn for the deer. If illegal to bait deer because of disease then what about the piles of corn in the fields or apples under trees or acorns? And for that fact what about a bag of crushed acorns? Acorns are natural in the woods so if a person puts that out they are just adding to what is already in the woods by nature

I am not saying baiting is something that should be done if that is what you need to do to get a deer then learn to hunt. However do not complain about someone putting ou a bag of crushed beats when you planted beats in a food plot

[ants]

I've never seen a field of natural beets either. Usually requires some human input, machinery and Round-Up. Natural?  I think not. I'm perfectly OK with beet fields, having said that.

Ya got me. I should have left out "naturally"