9 year old girl accidentally kills gun instructor

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Well I already teach my 8 year old daughter gun safety but she hasn't been allowed to handle on yet. She and I have agreed that when she turns 12 that I'll buy her a pink single shot cricket. She'll then learn proper and safe shooting habits from there.

Your call but 12 is just a number. He ability to comprehend what you are instructing and her handling of the gun is more important. My father actuall started me out with handling a gun during his cleaning operations when he came back from hunting.

 

[Borngeechee]

Your call but 12 is just a number. He ability to comprehend what you are instructing and her handling of the gun is more important. My father actuall started me out with handling a gun during his cleaning operations when he came back from hunting.

The reason I picked 12 is because the ranges around me won't allow her to shoot until she is 12.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

The reason I picked 12 is because the ranges around me won't allow her to shoot until she is 12.

some around here as well. That doesn't make sense though (totally driven by insurance companies). because a kid can hunt at 12 so I would think the first time they fire a gun shouldn't be at game. Like I said. to me 12 is just a number but it is totally your call, as it should be.

[Elmo]

I agree it would be a great opportunity to discuss appropriate timing for introducing kids to guns. instead of complaining (.e. rant) about other posts, why don't you elevate the level of conversation by starting it off? Lead by example and all that.

 

As Culver, said, I'm not going to put an actual number to when I will teach my son how to shoot.  It'll be determined by his physical ability to handle the firearm as well as the mental/moral aptitude to handle the responsibility of firing a firearm.  His first gun will be a single shot.  Either 22LR or 410 or 20 gauge (bird shot).  I see no reason why it has to be rushed.  Just because one child is shooting a semi-auto at the age of 8 versus shooting one at the age of 16 doesn't make one child a better or more responsible shooter.  It's not a race.  You don't get a prize for learning how to shoot before someone else.

[virgil]

Using the comparison made earlier in this thread, there are legal age minimums for driving a car.  Would it be unreasonable to have the same for guns?

[Borngeechee]

As Culver, said, I'm not going to put an actual number to when I will teach my son how to shoot. It'll be determined by his physical ability to handle the firearm as well as the mental/moral aptitude to handle the responsibility of firing a firearm. His first gun will be a single shot. Either 22LR or 410 or 20 gauge (bird shot). I see no reason why it has to be rushed. Just because one child is shooting a semi-auto at the age of 8 versus shooting one at the age of 16 doesn't make one child a better or more responsible shooter. It's not a race. You don't get a prize for learning how to shoot before someone else.

But if the can't legally go to the range until they reach a certain age, how are you going to teach them to shoot before they reach that age? Dry firing is one thing but it's nothing like hearing the report and feeling the recoil

[Elmo]

Is this age restriction every range or just the range near you?  I never looked into this sort of stuff since my son is still trying to chew every single object he can get his hands on.

[Vince1]

For my kids its not really age. Starting my kids on archery and how to have respect for. A bow, then moving up to a crossbow. When they can handle that and prove to be responsible enogh they get introduced to the next level.

[Vince1]

My opinion below...

Part of the problem is to many people fear weapons and have lost respect for them. Through that fear and the actions of a handful of bad people.

I new NOTHING about firearms until i went to the military and still didnt have the RESPECT i have for them till i sat in hunters ed classes and started hunting.

People have moved away from simple basics common sense. Teaching kids in school about the good and bad a weapon can do from a young age is something that should be done in a country with the right to bear arms.

Instead seeds of fear for weapons and only cops and bad people have guns is the message of the day.

[ants]

For what a weapon was made for. Some say we dont have to hunt, Yup, Fine so what happens to all the animals that people know need to be controlled?  Ya know like the 40 thousand doe permits some area are getting. You think they will just send in the sticks and strings? . 

 

Do you NEED a high powered, scoped sniper/military style bolt action rifle, that is capable of killing out to 500+ yards, to kill a deer? Cant you just use a side lock muzzle loader or long bow?? 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Using the comparison made earlier in this thread, there are legal age minimums for driving a car.  Would it be unreasonable to have the same for guns?

I can understand the desire for an age restriction on the driving but I assure you that there are kids perfectly able to safely and competently drive a car on the roads at younger than 16. I think with the guns there is really less interaction with the general public like driving would present. I wish I could say just leave it to the responsible parents to decide the best course but we all know there are parents that are either unwilling or unable to make those decisions concerning other topics. That said I struggle with a law that infringes on the responsible parents because of the ones that aren't. The fine line we walk with all the laws that get pushed.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

But if the can't legally go to the range until they reach a certain age, how are you going to teach them to shoot before they reach that age? Dry firing is one thing but it's nothing like hearing the report and feeling the recoil

numerous places to shoot that aren't not a sanctioned range. We really do need to get you city boys out more...lol

[Mr VJP]

Didn't anyone else learn to shoot with a BB gun?  

 

I was taught how to aim and squeeze a trigger with a Red Ryder BB gun, and I loved it!  To me, at age 7, it was the greatest thing in the world.  I practiced with that BB gun for hours and must have gone through 1000 BB's in a month.  I learned gun safety, as well as how to aim and shoot straight, long before I ever fired a single shot .22 LR.  I was allowed to fire a single shot shotgun when I was 11, and I was OK with not shooting that monster again for quite some time.

 

For me it was a gradual progression in firearms use and instruction as I grew up.  Learning how to hunt and be safe in the field with a gun, was part of that progression.

 

I started all 3 of my children with BB guns and plan to start my grandchild with one as well.  I would advise all parents and child mentors to seriously consider doing the same thing.  Safety and proficiency can be learned, and taught, with a less than lethal weapon, giving the teacher confidence and a greater margin for error with the student.

 

 

[Borngeechee]

Is this age restriction every range or just the range near you? I never looked into this sort of stuff since my son is still trying to chew every single object he can get his hands on.

Lol yeah the laws in respect to guns are very different in NYC and Nassau than upstate. If I'm not mistaken 12 is the minimum legal age for all of NYC and Nassau.

numerous places to shoot that aren't not a sanctioned range. We really do need to get you city boys out more...lol

Or just move further upstate lol

[ants]

I think the whole point in this sad case is that the guy, and apparently the girls parents made the poor decision to let her handle too much gun. Its like the  youtube videos you see of morons handing their 90 pound girlfriend a 500 S&W or a 12 gauge and watching them whack themselves in the face or have the gun fly out of their hands because of the recoil. In this case the outcome was far worse. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Didn't anyone else learn to shoot with a BB gun?  

 

I was taught how to aim and squeeze a trigger with a Red Ryder BB gun, and I loved it!  To me, at age 7, it was the greatest thing in the world.  I practiced with that BB gun for hours and must have gone through 1000 BB's in a month.  I learned gun safety, as well as how to aim and shoot straight, long before I ever fired a single shot .22 LR.  I was allowed to fire a single shot shotgun when I was 11, and I was OK with not shooting that monster again for quite some time.

 

For me it was a gradual progression in firearms use and instruction as I grew up.  Learning how to hunt and be safe in the field with a gun, was part of that progression.

 

I started all 3 of my children with BB guns and plan to start my grandchild with one as well.  I would advise all parents and child mentors to seriously consider doing the same thing.  Safety and proficiency can be learned, and taught, with a less than lethal weapon, giving the teacher confidence and a greater margin for error with the student.

 Ability appropriate firearms, is what it is all about. No different than for an adult.  I started with a BB gun as well and almost ended up like the movie (all fun and games until someone loses and eye)shooting balloons. BB cam right back and hit the end of the barrel. BB's are too hard and ricochet to easily. Started my daughter with a light single pump pellet gun. they don't seem to ricochet as easily.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I think the whole point in this sad case is that the guy, and apparently the girls parents made the poor decision to let her handle too much gun. Its like the  youtube videos you see of morons handing their 90 pound girlfriend a 500 S&W or a 12 gauge and watching them whack themselves in the face or have the gun fly out of their hands because of the recoil. In this case the outcome was far worse. 

Amen, ability appropriate.

[Mr VJP]

Culvercreek, I forgot to mention eye protection at all times with any shooter.  At least with a BB or pellet gun, ear protection isn't needed.

 

[clayshooter25]

I have 2 sons.  When my eldest was old enough to shoot at our county range (minimum age 12 if I recall), I took him because he showed interest and I felt he was mature and physically ready to learn to shoot. 

 

6 years later when my youngest son turned 12 I did not even introduce the subject because while physically larger, I didn't feel he was ready to give it the attention it deserved.

 

5 years later, both are now my hunting buddies.

 

My point is an "exact" age will not define when a kid is ready and able to shoot a firearm.  As with so many things in life (driving included), it requires a subjective parental eye to decide when the time is right.  But I don't want or need the government to be my child's parent.  I can and will do that thank-you!  That's why I had them!!!

 

This was a tragic mistake on the parent's part and especially on the part of the instructor (rest his soul).

 

While I have no interest in owning anything other than a "hunting or sporting" long gun (define it as you will), I cannot question anyone who wants to own an AK or AR, any more than it would be correct for an anti-hunting skeet shooter to say I shouldn't be allowed to have my .308 bolt rifle or semi-auto 12 ga. because it doesn't fit into their lifestyle.  Remember - The Second Ammendment says nothing about hunting.

 

If we allow "them" to divide us our position will be weakened immensly - - and let there be not doubt, that's what they want to do.  Remember what Lincoln said - - a house divided against itself cannot stand!

 

Bloomberg and Bill Gates (with their gun toting body guards) should donate money to assist those suffering from mental illness instead of attacking law abiding citizens.  Inanimate objects do not kill people, people with mental issues kill people.

Edited August 27, 2014 by clayshooter25

[NFA-ADK]

Very sad story.  First off I would never hand ANYONE a fully auto gun without explaining recoil and starting them with1 round then 3 then 5 then 7-9 and building up to a full magazine.  But to give a young kid any fully auto gun and expect no problems is just plain dumb.  They should review the code of handling a fire arm.  Like many have said you do not start people off with a heavy round or fully auto. 

 

  Bet if I was given a machine gun at 9-13 the results would not have been pleasant, same with a shotgun or 30-06.  Common sense should prevail and kids do not need to use fully auto guns for target shooting.  A 22 is more than enough for any kid then gradually introduce higher powered guns. 

 

Such a shame this instructor died.  Prayers to the family.

[turkeyfeathers]

Using the comparison made earlier in this thread, there are legal age minimums for driving a car.  Would it be unreasonable to have the same for guns?

Then again you can enlist to serve our country and perhaps die for it but not drink a beer legally. I think common sense should apply for when your child can shoot and what they should be shooting. My daughter has been shooting since the age of 4 and I'm completely happy with where she's gotten in the point of gun safety. We had an earlier discussion on this. Unfortunately you can't teach common sense to people. 

[Fantail]

This is an unfortunate incident and I feel bad for that kid.

It also highlights what the media dramatizes and politics spin on.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Fantail

[Vince1]

This is an unfortunate incident and I feel bad for that kid.

It also highlights what the media dramatizes and politics spin on.

 

 

Internet, blessing and a curse. you have an unfortunate incident that in the past would have been a tragedy for a town. Now it becomes a tragedy for a nation.

 

drama sells, you never see stories about positive things people do but the minute someone dies its a media frenzy. and some fool in a suit tries to capitalize on it

[philoshop]

I just can't imagine what the guy was thinking, handing that particular gun to a little kid.

Extremely poor judgement.

[Elmo]

I have 2 sons. When my eldest was old enough to shoot at our county range (minimum age 12 if I recall), I took him because he showed interest and I felt he was mature and physically ready to learn to shoot.

6 years later when my youngest son turned 12 I did not even introduce the subject because while physically larger, I didn't feel he was ready to give it the attention it deserved.

5 years later, both are now my hunting buddies.

My point is an "exact" age will not define when a kid is ready and able to shoot a firearm. As with so many things in life (driving included), it requires a subjective parental eye to decide when the time is right. But I don't want or need the government to be my child's parent. I can and will do that thank-you! That's why I had them!!!

This was a tragic mistake on the parent's part and especially on the part of the instructor (rest his soul).

While I have no interest in owning anything other than a "hunting or sporting" long gun (define it as you will), I cannot question anyone who wants to own an AK or AR, any more than it would be correct for an anti-hunting skeet shooter to say I shouldn't be allowed to have my .308 bolt rifle or semi-auto 12 ga. because it doesn't fit into their lifestyle. Remember - The Second Ammendment says nothing about hunting.

If we allow "them" to divide us our position will be weakened immensly - - and let there be not doubt, that's what they want to do. Remember what Lincoln said - - a house divided against itself cannot stand!

Bloomberg and Bill Gates (with their gun toting body guards) should donate money to assist those suffering from mental illness instead of attacking law abiding citizens. Inanimate objects do not kill people, people with mental issues kill people.

Right on!

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