Posted signs

[bigpaul]

The DEC website states that your name and address need to be on the sign.  Does this mean street address, town, state and zip code, or is town and state enough?

[Five Seasons]

for what it's worth, it's still trespassing even without signs. It may hurt your case if you don't have the propery posted when trying to enforce it. So i can't see why you'd need to put anything other than your name and number so someone can contact you.

[First-light]

I don't put my name on the posted signs, never did.

[stoneam2006]

From what I understand if name and contact info are not present you can only be asked to leave not be charged.....but could be incorrect.

[nybuckboy]

I have name and address but no phone number. 

 

[Five Seasons]

From what I understand if name and contact info are not present you can only be asked to leave not be charged.....but could be incorrect.

No. It's no different than someone hanging out on your front yard, and few people post their front yard. Trespassing is trespassing.

[stoneam2006]

Like I said I could be wrong.....but if someone is just sitting in your front yard without properly posted land....so many signs so far apart so high off ground on stakes not trees or telephone poles I believe all you can do is ask them to leave the first time....sure after that stuff changes but the first time without properly posted land idk that a charge will stick.....

[Mustang51js]

I have my last name and my cell number. I have to take some down because I had the wife help and she basically put one on every other tree lol

[BornToHunt]

i put my name and my upstate adress on my signs. Don't want anyone to know owner lives downstate.

[jrm]

Like I said I could be wrong.....but if someone is just sitting in your front yard without properly posted land....so many signs so far apart so high off ground on stakes not trees or telephone poles I believe all you can do is ask them to leave the first time....sure after that stuff changes but the first time without properly posted land idk that a charge will stick.....

 

The way I have understood it, the "posted" rules only apply to _unimproved_ land.

 

A front yard - certainly one that people are like to sit in - is probably landscaped. You might even have a driveway and house right near it. This means the land is obviously private property and does not have to be posted.

 

The DEC website it makes a reference to this. It even used to state something about brush-hogging qualifying as "improved" land which doesn't need to be posted.

 

I can understand giving someone the benefit of the doubt if they are in a state forest and accidentally wander into adjacent private land. However, there should be no excuse for entering what is obviously someone else's property.

 

I know some people who like to "quote" rules about posting. One person (who is supposed to be very informed on the topic) told me that a posted sign on a tree "doesn't count." He claimed it had to be on a certain type of freestanding post and a specific height off the ground. He thought these "improperly" placed signs made it okay to hunt on the property (as long as he didn't get caught).

 

 When I asked him for a reference, code or rule to support his statement, he backpedaled and claimed each town has it's own rules so I had to look at the local level. I think he is full of it. I could not find any written rule. If someone has a link, I would love to see it.

 

The DEC website has some comments on this. NYS Penal law has the following (from section 140);

 

A person who enters or remains upon unimproved and

apparently unused land, which is neither fenced nor otherwise enclosed

in a manner designed to exclude intruders, does so with license and

privilege unless notice against trespass is personally communicated to

him by the owner of such land or other authorized person, or unless such

notice is given by posting in a conspicuous manner.

 

 

The only thing I can find is "conspicuous." EC law probably has more detail, although that is separate from penal law (but it does come in to play when dealing with DEC penalties).

 

I have seen the name and address requirement mentioned in several places. Oddly, most signs I see do not have this info, or have incomplete info. I have no idea if this would actually lessen your position, but I think it ridiculous if it did.

 

Also keep in mind that it must be the property owner who tells someone to leave/makes the complaint. A neighbor of mine once called the sheriff because some kids were riding ATVs across another neighbors property. The Sheriff showed up and told him there is nothing he could do unless the property owner is the one to complain. Based on this my neighbor and I exchanged numbers so we could watch out for each other's place and get each other on the phone to authorized the sheriff to act.

[stoneam2006]

Here is a link I have found......

http://www2.dnr.cornell.edu/ext/info/pubs/LegalFinancial/liability_boundary_posting.htm

Basically unposted land practical or not is basically open to public with or without permission. Just have to leave upon request....and the sign regulations are there for a reason and if not done correctly will not help in a case against trespasser. I'm not a judge so I can't say it will be thrown out but would probably come down to who's willing to pay for a better lawyer. ...and in my opinion if your gonna post your land you should do it right and all should have contact info on it. Due to retrieving wounded game. I personally would go on posted land to retrieve a wounded animal without permission if there was no contact info on sign. Who wants to think there's a wounded animal suffering...as a state land hunter for a major part of the season I have wandered into many lands that were not properly posted thru out the woods without ever seeing a sign till you hit a major path or boundary. As I'm not a landowner I guess I don't see the point of not having a cell number on the sign but that's just me

[Doc]

Sure is an awful lot of confusion regarding how to properly post property.

[SteveB]

Here is a link I have found......

http://www2.dnr.cornell.edu/ext/info/pubs/LegalFinancial/liability_boundary_posting.htm

Basically unposted land practical or not is basically open to public with or without permission. Just have to leave upon request....and the sign regulations are there for a reason and if not done correctly will not help in a case against trespasser. I'm not a judge so I can't say it will be thrown out but would probably come down to who's willing to pay for a better lawyer. ...and in my opinion if your gonna post your land you should do it right and all should have contact info on it. Due to retrieving wounded game. I personally would go on posted land to retrieve a wounded animal without permission if there was no contact info on sign. Who wants to think there's a wounded animal suffering...as a state land hunter for a major part of the season I have wandered into many lands that were not properly posted thru out the woods without ever seeing a sign till you hit a major path or boundary. As I'm not a landowner I guess I don't see the point of not having a cell number on the sign but that's just me

Fact is no one should have to post their land - if you don't own it or have written permission, you don't go. Period.

The paper listed above is opinion written by someone doing research - not part of the NYS penal or environmental codes. Lines like

5. Illegal or torn-down notices must be replaced annually in March, July, August, or September.

 

make me wonder who writes such stuff. How can anyone possibly know what months you replace signs?

Edited September 7, 2014 by SteveB

[stoneam2006]

The penal code is listed in that article it says same thing just in lawyer talk....if anyone owns land and doesn't want unwelcome visitors it should be posted properly and with contact information present on every sign. If not in my opinion it's a lack of responsibility of the landowner and a trespasser would be hard if not impossible to have charged. Especially if they are hunting adjacent land with permission.

[SteveB]

It should be the responsibility of the individual to know where they are and to have permission. It is just wrong to put it on the landowner - period. Ohio has it right - have and carry written permission or face prosecution. It's called personal responsibility.

Edited September 7, 2014 by SteveB

[stoneam2006]

For your property to be legally posted, signs must meet the following criteria:

1. They must be at least 11 inches square.

2. They must be posted no more than 40 rods (660 feet) apart, along the boundaries of the area where posting is desired.

3. At least one sign must be posted alongeach border and at each corner of the plot.

4. Posting notices must include the name and address of the person posting.

5. Illegal or torn-down notices must be replaced annually in March, July, August, or September.

[SteveB]

For your property to be legally posted, signs must meet the following criteria:

5. Illegal or torn-down notices must be replaced annually in March, July, August, or September.

You honestly don't think this is beyond stupid and a waste of ink, paper, bandwidth?

[stoneam2006]

But we are in ny....not Ohio so laws here are different and so the responsibility falls on landowner....when your deep in state land and happen to cross on to unposted private land it should not be the hunters fault. Also deer retrieval on posted land is much easier with properly and legally posted land. As you can call and get permission

[stoneam2006]

No this is relevant to me in many many situations as I hunt multiple tracts of state land and private land with improperly posted land around it and multiple times have ended up on unknown land. If properly posted I would have turned back around to avoid it...

[SteveB]

I know we are in NY. And NY has it wrong - we should be like Ohio where landowners actually have rights.

You want the landowner to do the work to make it easier for you.

Entitlement attitude trumping personal responsibility.

I deal with it every year with the stateland "hunters" who feel that the 600 acres of state land bordering us is not enough - they need access to our 60 acres.

[stoneam2006]

Is your 60 properly posted?

[SteveB]

Yes - maybe not in the legal months to post. And every year deal with people who don't care. And the state has the boundaries marked clearly as well. No one gets a pass and no excuses.

[beachpeaz]

Let me ask a question that is begging to be asked:

Why not just post it the right way and avoid any possible issues?

It seems like the debate is if people can get away with trespassing if not posted correctly.

Ok then, don't take short cuts. Problem solved. And, if you are one of those people who likes to take short cuts, then do so knowing by simply saving 3 seconds by not putting your address on (or something) might be the same as not even posting it to begin with!

[SteveB]

My point is there should not be a "right" way of posting - especially being required to post publically personal information.

It simply should be the individuals responsibility to stay off land they do not own or have permission to be on.

For those unwilling or unable to personally accept this responsibility, then something like purple paint on boundary trees should be enough. Several states do this.

[skully]

No. It's no different than someone hanging out on your front yard, and few people post their front yard. Trespassing is trespassing.

 

That is not true.  It is not the same as being on your yard.  If there are no posted signs you can not be charged.  If there are posted signs and there is no name or address you can not be charged.  If the posted signs are not put up correctly ( a certain amount of feet next to each other)  you can not be charged.............