Paper Plate Pugilists

[jesse.james]

Well the paper plate pugilists are out in full effect.  You know the type im talking about.  If you are one of these Im speaking about then I mean no offense.  Actually id be lying...i hope i offend you into shame.

 

At the local open archery range at long branch park.  Most of the year im the only one at the place.  Coming 30 days before the season and good luck getting a lane.  These are the guys that dont pick up the bow all year...then go out right before the season, fix the plate to a bale and then proceed to take pop shots with there 20 yr old bows/brand new box store RTS bows they got yesterday. 

 

Was there on monday.  First guy..about 18-20.  Had his friend that came with him to watch.  Overhear him saying this is the first time he has been out this year.  Puts on the paper plate.  Goes back to 20 yards.  Fires 2 sets of 5 arrows each.  Out of 10 arrows hits the paper plate 3 times.  Says yup its on and then leaves.  Second kid and I mean kid.  We get talking.  He is 15 years old just got his bow course done.  Shooting a brand new bow only 3 days old.  Ask him what bow he had before this.  He advises its his first bow.  I then give him the look and say, "your not planning to hunt with it this year are you?"  He didnt like that very much.  So lets recap.  one guy who is barely hitting a 8 -10 inch paper plate at 20 yards and a kid shooting a bow for the first time.  less than 1 week from season. 

 

Cmon guys,  bow hunting is hard for season vets who fling hundreds if not thousands of arrows down range a year.  We owe it to the animals we tend to take with these weapons to be on top of our game.  To take an animal is mercifully and quickly as possible.  I just have to hope they lack as much vigilence in the scouting dept as they do in the practice department and that a deer never gives them an opportunity. 

[wooly]

All different levels of bowhunters out there.

The only one I worry about is me.

I do my best, and can't ask for anything more than that.

[Vinny Tagalucci]

So two young guys....obviously new to archery and hunting......and instead of offering pointers and encouraging them you felt the need to go on the internet and belittle them.

Nice going champ..........you must be the grand archery champion

[BizCT]

How did the 15 year old shoot? Why can't he become proficient to some point in a week?

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[jesse.james]

Archery is about repetition and muscle memory. This isn't a point and click xbow. Anchor is a tad off and that could be the difference between a kill and a wounded animal. Sure even people that shoot alot make bad shots. The percentage goes up for those who haven't developed their techniques. And yes I gave him a few pointers. But I could give a few pointers on how to hit a 90 mph fastball but it does not mean someone who has barely ever swung a bat is going to be able to hit it.

Edited September 24, 2014 by jesse.james

[jesse.james]

How did the 15 year old shoot? Why can't he become proficient to some point in a week?

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He was very sporatic. He got close sometimes. Again it's form and muscle memory. I helped with grip and anchor. His draw was about an inch to long but he wasn't going to have time to get that corrected. I just told him to get as much practice as he could in. Not much more I could do. There was no way I was talking him out of bow hunting this year

[NeverSeenNorHeard]

Sometimes I think I'm tough on people, then I come here and realize I must be a softy... 

[stoneam2006]

Archery is about repetition and muscle memory. This isn't a point and click xbow. Anchor is a tad off and that could be the difference between a kill and a wounded animal. Sure even people that shoot alot make bad shots. The percentage goes up for those who haven't developed their techniques. And yes I gave him a few pointers. But I could give a few pointers on how to hit a 90 mph fastball but it does not mean someone who has barely ever swung a bat is going to be able to hit it.

I am a fairly new archery hunter ( just don't get out much) never connected on a shot. I am trying to understand why shooting with a modern compound bow is hard. All the new sights releases and all the other add ons really make it a point and shoot. Hunting is a different story I'll give you that just drawing with a deer in range alone is a task. But the shooting part imo is pretty straight forward and I don't understand why anyone would need to shoot 100s if not 1000s of arrows down range. I don't shoot that much with anything and am incredibly confident with all my weapons of choice. I'm not trying to start a argument I am asking why would I ot anyone need to shoot thay much. Seems like 15-20 shots consistently in the bull at the desired range a few times before season would be more than enough...if I am missing something please inform me

[jesse.james]

Success is measured different for each person. Some people are happy with hitting an apple every time at 30 yards. Some want 2 inch groups. It depends on what class of archer you want to be. There is a reason that the best of the best shoot non stop.

You and Levi Morgan could be using the same exact equipment. without seeing you shoot I can say without a doubt in a 3d comp he could spot you 30 pts and you still would not stand a chance. Not trying to be a jerk but yes there is a reason for firing thousands of arrows.

Although compounds are easier than trad bows being able to repeat your shot with identical form over and over. Missing your anchor point by a quarter inch could result in several inches at the other end. then on top of your anchor you have arm angle, your grip, how you squeeze your release and so on. Doing everything exactly the same way every time is the key to being a top echelon archer.

Edited September 25, 2014 by jesse.james

[Doc]

I have seen people that are pretty much naturals at shooting that could pick up any style of bow and have some level of success in short order. They are pretty damned rare. I have seen far more that really struggle to get the kind of proficiency that it takes to make things work in hunting conditions. Archery is a skill and it does require practice. There's no denying that, even if you have $1500 worth of bow with all kinds of accessories hanging all over it. That is one of the unfortunate misconceptions these days. You cannot buy enough gadgets and go-fasters to make up for time on the range.

 

I will say that those who have been at it for a bunch of years may very well have the luxury of getting tuned up and tweaked with a short period of time just prior to the season. But with only very few exceptions, at some point in their archery experience, some quite rigorous shooting technique development has had to have occurred. It sounds to me like the two subjects of this thread were attempting to skip over that "development" stage.

 

It's hard to say how to react when you spot something like that. Come down too hard and you might push new-comers away from bowhunting. But it is probably not something that should just be sluffed off without some kind of comment.

[MACHINIST]

I shoot a ton each year because I love to shoot.I also know guys that don't have the time and don't shoot till the month before season.Does it show?On some hell yes it shows and some it doesnt.Does that mean that the guy who has a max range of 20-25 yards shouldn't go out?No it doesn't.This bickering between hunters really pisses me off,and it needs to stop.I have had bad years where I shot a deer and didn't recover because of various reasons,some were me and some were not.

[A Sportsman]

The concerns around these 2 young man are well founded. Both in terms of the prospect of wounded deer, as well as their development as ethical hunters who understand what will be required of them and their equipment to "get it right".

BUT, we all start somewhere. I will admit that my first 3 or so yrs of bowhunting I was clueless. Dad never bowhunted. And at that age I didn't have the maturity, I guess, to realize that I needed to work hard to learn the nuances of shooting, importance oftuning, etc.

It was a blessing that I didn't wound any deer (missed a couple) and met a great hunter in the woods one day who took time to mentor me. It wad like I had to "start over" after 3 yrs of basically wasting my time. If that guy (mentor) wasn't so gracious in helping me out, God only knows how long it would have taken me to get on the right track. (For record, this was pre-internet, and information didn't grow on trees the way it does now).

[growalot]

The OP has a point in general terms...practice practice practice because even with a modern compound muscle memory and anchor point does take time. But what bothers me is if those "kids" are like most archers, they will take to the trees and that is where the "hunting practice" should  occur. IMO

 

Stoneam...to answer your question ..for some like me and traditional archers that shoot instinctive (no sights) muscle memory and anchor are imperative...but...having not shot with a sight, I would still think shooting utilizing movable parts and checking to make sure nothing is loosening up  would be just as important.

 

As far as the bickering I hate it as well...that said the first thing that strolled through my mind as I read these posts is...Just wait until the the many many pages of I shot and lost  start showing up..... Not a criticism, I have been there and it cost me not only sleepless nights but $$$ as well. This thread WILL pop up in the back of every one of your minds.

[Doc]

I shoot a ton each year because I love to shoot.I also know guys that don't have the time and don't shoot till the month before season.Does it show?On some hell yes it shows and some it doesnt.Does that mean that the guy who has a max range of 20-25 yards shouldn't go out?No it doesn't.This bickering between hunters really pisses me off,and it needs to stop.I have had bad years where I shot a deer and didn't recover because of various reasons,some were me and some were not.

So here we go again. Somebody starts a thread about seeing a couple of guys who were apparently ill-prepared to be bowhunting and it is instantly labeled as being "bickering between hunters". There is no bickering going on in this thread. It is simply the expression of an opinion that some people are not concerned enough with their shooting proficiency. I have no idea how widespread this inadequacy is, but if we cannot agree that shooting proficiency is an important part of bowhunting without considering that "bickering between hunters", then the sport is really in big trouble and apparently we cannot discuss anything without it being considered "bickering".

[Sogaard]

Success is measured different for each person. Some people are happy with hitting an apple every time at 30 yards. Some want 2 inch groups. It depends on what class of archer you want to be. There is a reason that the best of the best shoot non stop.

You and Levi Morgan could be using the same exact equipment. without seeing you shoot I can say without a doubt in a 3d comp he could spot you 30 pts and you still would not stand a chance. Not trying to be a jerk but yes there is a reason for firing thousands of arrows.

Although compounds are easier than trad bows being able to repeat your shot with identical form over and over. Missing your anchor point by a quarter inch could result in several inches at the other end. then on top of your anchor you have arm angle, your grip, how you squeeze your release and so on. Doing everything exactly the same way every time is the key to being a top echelon archer.

 

That's great, if you want to be a top echelon archer.  If I was making my living shooting arrows into targets, that is what I would do too.

 

But I would hope you would agree that you can consistently and efficiently down deer without being able to shoot a 300/30.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Sogaard

[MACHINIST]

If you are one of these Im speaking about then I mean no offense.  Actually id be lying...i hope i offend you into shame.

 

 

I then give him the look and say, "your not planning to hunt with it this year are you?" 

 

 

I just have to hope they lack as much vigilence in the scouting dept as they do in the practice department and that a deer never gives them an opportunity. 

 

 

No bickering huh????

Edited September 25, 2014 by MACHINIST

[SplitG2]

When I was a young lad I shot 8 months out of the year.  now I pick up my bow about a month before and shoot maybe once a week.  for me it doesn't matter how much I practice..results are the same....center ring.  I know some guys who are awesome at practice but not so much while hunting.  Many other factors than muscle memory etc comes into play while hunting.

[YFKI1983]

You are talking about a 15 year old and an 18 year old... I can't say I didn't make mistakes when I was their age considering Im 31 and still probably make plenty of mistakes (including accidentally dry firing my bow 2 weeks ago and watching it explode in my hand)

 

They are going to go out, probably miss and realize they need to practice more and hopefully they will.

If I see a young hunter I try to encourage them to get out as much as possible...we need more hunters not less,

[PWGUNNY]

I firmly believe an archer can become proficient with his bow in a week of practice.

 

At least these guys are attempting to improve and sight in their bows.  There are other bowhunters that will be in the woods without any practice at all.  Same with firearms.

[moog5050]

I picked up a compound for the first time 2 weeks before my first season. I was able to kill 3 that first year. I don't think I have any special talent. Rather, I really don't think its all that tough to become reasonably proficient with a modern compound bow in a short time if you practice. I know I had 3" groups or less at 20yds before the season started that first year.

That said, if you are missing a plate 70% of the time at 20yds, you should not be hunting with a bow. That person is not reasonably proficient with a bow and is very likely to wound vs. kill deer. I just don't think its ethical. I am not criticizing the kids for practicing, but they need more of it before flinging an arrow at a deer. IMHO.

Edited September 25, 2014 by moog5050

[growalot]

Well here the hope....that if they aren't proficient enough then when the deer comes into range...they will have happen what happened to me the first year...BTW with a year of practice under my belt..Go to draw back the string and realize I might as well been pulling on an I-beam...for it wasn't about to move...lol

[Doc]

No bickering huh????

That is not bickering. That is simply reacting to someone who stated they and their bow are ready to go out and fling arrows at deer when clearly they were not. Yes, the guy could have just ignored them, kept his mouth shut without trying to straighten them out. It really is nothing to him .... right? I applaud those that speak up in these kinds of instances and in no way consider that to be bickering. You don't feel some responsibility to speak up in that kind of situation?

[First-light]

I just don't have the time to shoot my bow the way I want to. I will shoot here and there during the summer then once a week leading into season. It's the best I can do, my misses happen because of nerves, can't practice that!

[jesse.james]

If you can be proficient and hit what your aiming at. I don't have a problem. These guys were not.

[jesse.james]

Well here the hope....that if they aren't proficient enough then when the deer comes into range...they will have happen what happened to me the first year...BTW with a year of practice under my belt..Go to draw back the string and realize I might as well been pulling on an I-beam...for it wasn't about to move...lol

That happened on a late season hunt last year. Was in a ground blind about 6 degrees out. Doe comes by and I was frozen solid. Could not draw back for my life.