How many is too many - coyotes

[growalot]

When they broke through our first goat barn riped two full sized goats out and killed them in front of 2 kenneled shepherds...... then came back and tore through a 6 ft high chicken wired chicken run killing/carrying off 7 roasting chickens the very next day...DEC gave the kill them on sight OK when they came out...the county reimbursed us for the loss of chickens for livestock..but goats were the kids 4H project at the time and considered pets.

[growalot]

I really never agreed with the negative terms many country land owners use..." CITYIOTS AND TOWNIES" This thread certainly makes me see why they use them.....

[PREDATE]

The picture is clear. If they are on my property they are a threat to my livestock. They harass, they chase,they dig and they kill. If they are on my farm,they are around my livestock and a threat..Not just my deer. and that opens the door for killing on sight. Just because i am also saving the wild herds i work and pay so hard to keep..Well thats just a plus for them.

Well that does explain alot since you have livestock. In that case, you can protect it.

The legality behind you killing yotes (may) be warranted, but your comments about having no deer left to hunt if the yotes aren't hunted 365 days a year are just plain laughable

[PREDATE]

I really never agreed with the negative terms many country land owners use..." CITYIOTS AND TOWNIES" This thread certainly makes me see why they use them.....

I just figured they were either testing for pragmatic competence lmao, or using the speech-to-text function while stubbing their toes on their lower lip! Edited October 29, 2014 by PREDATE

[Curmudgeon]

Usually there are around 6-8 coyotes in a family unit.. most are juveniles with an Alfa male and Alfa female... there may be some rogue coyote males passing through the area as well on occasions.. but the family unit will defend their area against them. The real problem with just killing coyotes "willy nilly" is the chance that the Alfa male might be killed.. which invites more coyotes mostly rogue males into that area... hence, killing the Alfa male and sometimes even the Alfa female can result in an increase in the number of coyotes in that area until a new Alfa male or female is established...

 

nyantler's comments are supported by science.

 

That said, Fourseasons seems to be unable to separate predation of his personal property (his fenced deer) from predation of wild animals on his land. I have sheep. Fortunately, I have had no coyote problems in Otsego County, or in Cortland County before that -  a period of 40 years. They walk through the pastures (39" fences). My brother has had no coyote problems with his sheep in Chenango County during 25 years. Protecting livestock is justifiable. However, wild deer are not owned by the property owner. You cannot call them yours until you take it into possession.

 

Advice I received many years ago: if you have livestock and no problems with coyotes, do not kill them. Diet is learned. If your local coyotes do not kill sheep (or goats, etc.) you do not want to open up the territory to new animals by killing your dominant animals. You may get coyotes that do kill livestock.

 

Fourseasons seems so consumed by rage that he is unable to act in his self interest. Stable coyote families have larger territories. Of all the coyote killed deer I have found - and during a couple of winters it was considerable - all have been young of the year. Never an adult. Even though conditions sometimes favor the coyotes, I have too many deer. I counted 14 fawns on a walk a month ago. I have  many turkeys. Yesterday the woods looked like someone has been out there with a rake. Every time I check the cameras I get groups of turkeys.

 

If you have good habitat, the coyotes cannot destroy your game populations. Why is it that people are so selfish that they cannot share? Like everyone else, the coyotes are just trying to make a living.

 

Fourseasons - You are creating a coyote "sink" in a place where you admit you have an unlimited coyote "source". You are wasting your time and energy. You are not improving your situation re wild deer. And, if for no other reason than your family, please consider your anger issues and how they may affect your health. They seem a source of entertainment for a group of people on this forum.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well that does explain alot since you have livestock. In that case, you can protect it.

The legality behind you killing yotes (may) be warranted, but your comments about having no deer left to hunt if the yotes aren't hunted 365 days a year are just plain laughable

This was brought up before i believe but i will say again. I have about 60,000 acres of military base across the road from my farm that is totally unhunted for yotes. Unlimited supply if you will. When i can have dogs out and run down up to 20 yotes on a weekend..I have a problem. For a few years you could count on getting shots at yotes anytime you went hunting. 

 

You can laugh all you want but i can promise you that if left uncontrolled like they are around here and the numbers there are, They will ruin your land of all living things. Including Whitetails. The ones that dont get brought down and ate are ran off the property but the biggest problem for a few years were no fawns. That many dogs will take out a fawn crop year after year.

 

I would tell anyone with a dog problem to deal with it regardless of what someone else says. The people that try and tell me how to manage my land and what i should harvest have a track record showing they cant manage their own. Thanks anyways, I have that covered nicely!

 

 City boys that owns no land and has no clue about the real world of how to manage a property or the problems that go along with it should stick to the reading the books.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

nyantler's comments are supported by science.

 

That said, Fourseasons seems to be unable to separate predation of his personal property (his fenced deer) from predation of wild animals on his land. I have sheep. Fortunately, I have had no coyote problems in Otsego County, or in Cortland County before that -  a period of 40 years. They walk through the pastures (39" fences). My brother has had no coyote problems with his sheep in Chenango County during 25 years. Protecting livestock is justifiable. However, wild deer are not owned by the property owner. You cannot call them yours until you take it into possession.

 

Advice I received many years ago: if you have livestock and no problems with coyotes, do not kill them. Diet is learned. If your local coyotes do not kill sheep (or goats, etc.) you do not want to open up the territory to new animals by killing your dominant animals. You may get coyotes that do kill livestock.

 

Fourseasons seems so consumed by rage that he is unable to act in his self interest. Stable coyote families have larger territories. Of all the coyote killed deer I have found - and during a couple of winters it was considerable - all have been young of the year. Never an adult. Even though conditions sometimes favor the coyotes, I have too many deer. I counted 14 fawns on a walk a month ago. I have  many turkeys. Yesterday the woods looked like someone has been out there with a rake. Every time I check the cameras I get groups of turkeys.

 

If you have good habitat, the coyotes cannot destroy your game populations. Why is it that people are so selfish that they cannot share? Like everyone else, the coyotes are just trying to make a living.

 

Fourseasons - You are creating a coyote "sink" in a place where you admit you have an unlimited coyote "source". You are wasting your time and energy. You are not improving your situation re wild deer. And, if for no other reason than your family, please consider your anger issues and how they may affect your health. They seem a source of entertainment for a group of people on this forum.

Well buddy,,Not sure where you get your science but just because your math adds up at your place does not mean it works at mine. When you have yotes trying to run kids/hunters off their harvest while they are gutting them..You have a problem. Thats just a start.

 

I can tell you that my farm went from being tops in the area to being void of living creatures Until i declared war and now if you would like to go look in the harvest thread you will see what you can now see on my properties.again! You are a fool if you think those things cant grow out of control.

 

Trust me.The same 3 or 4 on here that think they are at the head of the class are really showing what they dont know. If you are one of the ones that like to read the books thats fine but myself, i have property for my family and friends and im not going to let some vermin ruin it for anyone. The lucky ones that get to use my properties know all to well just how great things are. 

And will continue to be!

[growalot]

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/meet-the-coywolf/meet-the-coywolf/8605/

[Larry]

1

[Curmudgeon]

I really never agreed with the negative terms many country land owners use..." CITYIOTS AND TOWNIES" This thread certainly makes me see why they use them.....

 

As I live out my reclusive rural existence, one thing I find really refreshing about this forum is to see the well informed and intelligent comments from the NY metro area. It belies many of the rural stereotypes about urban hunters. One thing I know for sure, many rural residents leave much to be desired in their hunting ethics, skills and methods.

[thphm]

I would tell anyone with a dog problem to deal with it regardless of what someone else says.

 

Speaking of Dogs ( people's pets) that ruined there belongings in the house when they were puppies.And were taken for a ride to eastern Long Island and left there in the woods. They grew up eating what they would hunt down to survive and they would join together and hunt in packs.

In a number of years the rabbit population dropped almost to nothing, as did the bird population.

They also went after people's live stock as chickens,ducks and other small creatures.

One day while on line at the local check station during deer season, A fellow came up and asked the ranger what can be done to them they are killing his chickens a few at a time The ranger said Shoot Them on sight.. 

 

[orion]

In regards to coyotes I read a study awhile ago, unfortunately I don't know where from, That stated diets of  coyotes in wooded areas consisted more of deer then coyotes in agricultural areas. I assume from all the small game and rodents found in the agricultural areas.

[skeets716]

A trapper ran a line for Coyotes along Route 20 between Cazenovia & LaFayette here in Central NY.  Look up the locations on a map, pretty much and West - East run along a "rural highway".  He got 220 coyotes along the 20 miles he was trapping.  An average of 10 dogs every mile.  I drive through the area pretty regularly during the Southern Zone Season and a couple times a month during off season.  Still see those animals a lot during day & night travel.  Hunters are the only predators for them and lets face it, not many go out to go after them.  I live next to Green Lakes State Park in Fayetteville, hear them every night and find scat in my backyard, a neighborhood of 278 houses.  My family lives on Wellesley Island up on the St. Lawrence.  The Island is riddled with them.  Hunt them all you want, the only thing that seems to slow the population is Mange, not allowing them to survive winters without the proper insulation from their fur.

[turkeyfeathers]

""He got 220 coyotes along the 20 miles he was trapping.  An average of 10 dogs every mile""

Would love to see a pic of all that fur put up

[HOUNDS77]

""He got 220 coyotes along the 20 miles he was trapping.  An average of 10 dogs every mile""

Would love to see a pic of all that fur put up

His name is Mark Zagger. He averages 100+ every year. He does all this in a 3 week stretch!

[turkeyfeathers]

His name is Mark Zagger. He averages 100+ every year. He does all this in a 3 week stretch!

Ha, I know the name from Trapperman forum. That guy knows his steel and coyotes ! Probably one of the best coyote trappers in the country if not the best 

[HOUNDS77]

He has true drive and dedication.

[cwhite]

Wow! Way to flush your credibility down the tubes! We're really weeding out the bad apples here lately!

Flush my credibility?  Please...  I don't hide behind a screen name and rarely post on here.  I didn't lie or stretch a truth.  How did my credibility take a hit? 

 

Long story short, if you have a farm with cattle that are in large pastures you will not be a fan of coyotes.  I couldn't imagine having a deer farm knowing the nerves a whitetail has.  I understand a coyote is only doing what his instincts tell him to do but that doesn't mean that I or any other person that has livestock (let me clarify that it is my father who has the livestock now and not me (credibility)) aren't within their legal right to take out a nuisance animal. 

 

The only bad apples I see are the righteous and judgemental on here who think they are Encon experts.  Sometimes this site is as bad as topix.

[Elmo]

If these coyotes are posing such a huge problem and threat to livestock owners, why don't they let other hunters hunt them? I'm sure there are more than a few willing hunters here who wouldn't mind the chance to take a yote or two off your hands. Myself included.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited October 30, 2014 by Elmo

[PREDATE]

Flush my credibility? Please... I don't hide behind a screen name and rarely post on here. I didn't lie or stretch a truth. How did my credibility take a hit?

Long story short, if you have a farm with cattle that are in large pastures you will not be a fan of coyotes. I couldn't imagine having a deer farm knowing the nerves a whitetail has. I understand a coyote is only doing what his instincts tell him to do but that doesn't mean that I or any other person that has livestock (let me clarify that it is my father who has the livestock now and not me (credibility)) aren't within their legal right to take out a nuisance animal.

The only bad apples I see are the righteous and judgemental on here who think they are Encon experts. Sometimes this site is as bad as topix.

Credibility or lack therof is established with every statement or action you make. Your previous comment a few pages back proves nothing more than how illogical and simple minded you can be. Nothing more. Judgemental and righteous? Please. You're running animals down in an automobile! Can you clarify that?

I've already expressed that I agree with people protecting what's theirs, but when people come bumbling around blaming wild animals for their own lack of foresight, planning, proactivity, etc. I just can't help but feel bad for them. Lol not really!

Edited October 30, 2014 by PREDATE

[cwhite]

Predate, running down a coyote with a vehicle was a tongue in cheek statement intended for sarcasm, nothing more.  My statement about killing a coyote on my property on still stands.  I also allow hunters to coyote hunt my property starting the first Monday after deer season.  Feel free to travel up and try it out.

 

As I said earlier, I don't blame the animal acting on its instincts. 

 

Done with this thread now.

Edited October 31, 2014 by cwhite

[nyantler]

In regards to coyotes I read a study awhile ago, unfortunately I don't know where from, That stated diets of  coyotes in wooded areas consisted more of deer then coyotes in agricultural areas. I assume from all the small game and rodents found in the agricultural areas.

I'm sure that's true.. coyotes like most animals are opportunists when it comes to food... most predators will take the easiest road available to expel the least amount of energy when hunting for food if they can... most eastern coyotes are not pack hunters, but that changes out west and seems to be more prevalent in the ADK's as well... I believe its a learned thing and a necessity to pack hunt in some areas of the US in order to get enough food to survive.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm sure that's true.. coyotes like most animals are opportunists when it comes to food... most predators will take the easiest road available to expel the least amount of energy when hunting for food if they can... most eastern coyotes are not pack hunters, but that changes out west and seems to be more prevalent in the ADK's as well... I believe its a learned thing and a necessity to pack hunt in some areas of the US in order to get enough food to survive.

 

nyantler is well informed.

 

Too many? For who? The goat farmer? The suburban cat owner who lost a pet? The deer hunter? From a coyotes perspective, how many is too many people?

 

Too many coyotes - outside of impacts to domestic animals - is when the habitat cannot support the population. When competition with other coyotes, or malnutrition related health problems, actually lowers the population. Good habitat can support good game levels and coyotes. Those who want an unnatural number of game animals are thinking short-term. Too many deer actually destroy their own habitat. Has anyone been to Harriman SP? Talk about a place that needs more coyotes, hunters, sharpshooters, something.......

 

[HOUNDS77]

If these coyotes are posing such a huge problem and threat to livestock owners, why don't they let other hunters hunt them? I'm sure there are more than a few willing hunters here who wouldn't mind the chance to take a yote or two off your hands. Myself included.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

EXACTLY!!

[LuckyPickle123]

(Big inhale of air through the nostrils)

 

"You smell that son....... Narks"