Interesting!

[phade]

Yeah Ok...This thread shows only one thing and that is how two faced people really are.. I love it because half of you fit this bill just fine and im happy to show everyone just that with your replys. We can kill anything anywhere except the pretty little deer! Whatever! 

Dont need to throw attention to one of the fastest growing industries around. Trust me, That industry is rolling along just fine and this thread was no about the deer industry. I love how truths and facts burn the one's that fit the post

 

You make no sense. I'm really ambivolent to your industry or private deer despite your take on CWD, which I think is misguided due to your personal welfare. I just think your threads and posts are nothing but "pot stirring, look at me, please give me attention, I'm a rich man and better than you, so please pay attention to me," efforts. Your threads and posts of this nature require chest waders to navigate the poo.

 

Everyone carves out a career and success. Some here are blue-collar tradesmen and women. Some are business people. Some are lawyers and doctors. Just because you raise deer behind a fence doesn't mean you are better than anyone else here.

[bowaholic]

Well good for you. Make your opinion and move on. The only time an argument comes up or a couple children put posts on that really shows their intelligence,like the rat does is when facts are shown to prove how two faced they really are.  If you dont like the post then stay away from them. Pretty simple!

 

Throwing the two faced flag on this comment.... you don't like some posts (aka mine about the guys hunting my drive a couple weeks ago) and you wouldn't stay away from it until it was shut down... someone ruffles your feathers and you go off the deep end with assumptions and name calling and degrading of others on here.  Literally my only post on this topic because I don't want to be called a two-faced child who puts post on that show my intelligence

[Mr VJP]

Being the resident predatorphile, I need to point a couple of things. Pheasants are not native. They did not evolve in this part of the world. The stocked birds have no savvy whatsoever. Blaming predators for killing these "chickens" is like blaming the Johnstown flood on a leaky toilet in Altoona.

 

 

You missed my point about stocking birds that are captured from wild pheasant areas, just like the stocked turkeys.  Captured and released, not farmed raised.

[nyantler]

It hasn't worked because nothing has been done to improve habitat and reduce predator numbers.

 

NY has perfect turkey habitat and few turkey predators.  That is why stocking turkeys works in NY and even Northern NJ.

 

There are plenty of places in NY where the habitat will support pheasant year round, but there are a lot of fox around.  Banning leg hold traps put a lot of trappers out of the field and predator numbers are harder to control now.

 

There are many places in PA & NJ where they have wild pheasant populations.  I can be done successfully but it requires knowledge of what needs to be done.

 

I agree

[growalot]

They put that idea down due to the fact they would not survive the NYS habitat in great #'s...it's all on the DEC web site...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You make no sense. I'm really ambivolent to your industry or private deer despite your take on CWD, which I think is misguided due to your personal welfare. I just think your threads and posts are nothing but "pot stirring, look at me, please give me attention, I'm a rich man and better than you, so please pay attention to me," efforts. Your threads and posts of this nature require chest waders to navigate the poo.

 

Everyone carves out a career and success. Some here are blue-collar tradesmen and women. Some are business people. Some are lawyers and doctors. Just because you raise deer behind a fence doesn't mean you are better than anyone else here.

So let me get this right.. You can piss and whine because the Govt is stepping all over you with the gun laws and stepping on your rights and when someone shows support of those laws some call them every name under the sun but when someone else has their rights stepped on it should not be spoken about or the ones spreading the lies and agendas should not be called out and the truths be shown?  Right!  There is no pot stirring, it is posts and facts showing how two faced people are when it comes to these items.

There is no me..There is no rich or better than anyone. If you even knew me you would know i have turned wrenches at my local auto repair shop for close to 30 year . Deer are a hobby.

[nyantler]

Don't get pulled in Phade!!!

[BizCT]

Millionaires turning wrenches? something doesn't add up.

[Curmudgeon]

You missed my point about stocking birds that are captured from wild pheasant areas, just like the stocked turkeys.  Captured and released, not farmed raised.

 

I did ignore the wild vs. captured stock issue. However, it won't matter. Ring-necked Pheasant is a grassland bird. It's fate is the same as every other grassland bird in NYS. Where farming was marginal, habitat is turning from grass to brush to woodlands. Where farmers can still make a living hay must be cut early to get the most nutrition out of it. They do not schedule hay cuttings around the breeding season. What little high quality grassland there is in the state is mowed while birds are either nesting, or in the case of precocial birds like pheasants and Upland Sandpipers, the young hunker down when a threat arrives and go through the mower.

 

There are 9 grassland birds on the states Endangered/Threatened/Special Concern lists. This doesn't include pheasants. However, it does include Northern Harrier, ironically a predator.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Being the resident predatorphile, I need to point a couple of things. Pheasants are not native. They did not evolve in this part of the world. The stocked birds have no savvy whatsoever. Blaming predators for killing these "chickens" is like blaming the Johnstown flood on a leaky toilet in Altoona.

 

As far as canned hunts, I have some Dorset sheep I want to liquidate. They can be quite sporting in their pasture. No hunting license is needed. They are polled Dorsets so no headgear. Sorry.

 

 

Sounds like it wouldnt be a baaaaaaaad time. Whats the price? I might be in to shoot some mutton!

[sampotter]

I told you Curmudgeon...! Here's a question: at what point does shooting an animal behind a fence become "cruelty to animals"? If I took money from someone in exchange for letting them shoot one of my Holsteins for sport, would that be a whole lot better than a Michael Vick scenario? People have been jailed for animal cruelty after shooting dogs and/or cats even though the actual kill was quick and humane.

[wildcat junkie]

I ran a licensed shooting preserve for 5 years on my place. I would raise & release about 100 Pheasant every year.

 

 

 

 

 

They were released as paid for an hour or so before the hunts.

 

We averaged about a 70% success rate over my Britany Max.

 

 

 

It was this young man's 1st bird hunt & it was very satisfying to make it a success for him & his father. They had 100% success rate that day.

 

 

 

With only 2 exceptions, over client's dogs, it wasn't nearly as good as far as birds released vs birds harvested.

 

It's far from a sure thing & "canned hunt" is not a fair decription.

Edited December 5, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[Curmudgeon]

So, when I put a .22 in the head of a tethered lamb, skin it, gut it, cut it up and eat it, that could be animal cruelty?

 

When the cat lady lived next door and we had a rabid raccoon in the barn, I "removed" a lot of unvaccinated cats from the neighborhood. My vet and the county public health had told me to ignore the law. Was this animal cruelty?  It was in the interest of both public and household safety. It was ethical. Certainly, it was illegal.

 

Sorry to those who came in late, I've received deposits on all the sheep. Maybe next year.

[Curmudgeon]

I ran a licensed shooting preserve for about 4 years on my place. I would raise & relase about 100 Pheasant every year.

We had about a 70% success rate over my Britany Max.

With only 2 exceptions, over client's dogs, it wasen't nearly as good.

 

It's far from a sure thing & "canned hunt" is not a fair decription.

 

Fun, yes. However, very different from hunting wild birds. 70% success is very high.

 

My springer was trained on turkeys, woodcocks and grouse. He knew to ignore the chickens in the yard. Once a released pheasant showed up in the fall and went into the old standing sweet corn. I could not get that dog to go in and flush the pheasant. He acted like I wanted him to chase a chicken.

 

[wildcat junkie]

Fun, yes. However, very different from hunting wild birds. 70% success is very high.

 

My springer was trained on turkeys, woodcocks and grouse. He knew to ignore the chickens in the yard. Once a released pheasant showed up in the fall and went into the old standing sweet corn. I could not get that dog to go in and flush the pheasant. He acted like I wanted him to chase a chicken.

 

Read my post again. 70% was with my dog. Some client's that used their own dogs had 0% success & few much better. I only saw 2 "client" dogs that were able to "hunt" anything besides a food bowl.

 

So just because your dog didn't recognize pheasant scent it was the birds' fault? Do you really think he would have done better on "wild" birds?

 

My dog could scent & point wild grouse 40-50 yds away. It took me a while to realize that & circle farther ahead for the flush.

 

On my birds I had to train the clients to stay at least even with the dog as it cast & quickly cut off the bird from 2 side to keep it from running & flush within range. Max would point the birds & hold as long as he could waiting for us to pin the bird down before repositioning himself if need be. He was a very good dog. At 11 years old, he is now retired & laying on the coach.

 

I bought chicks of the  the smaller "Kansas Ringneck" variety because they were explosive when they flushed & would fly much better than the bigger Mongolian birds which were like chickens. Some ill trained clients dogs would catch the big fat Mongolians. I never raised any more. My flight pen was located far away from the house or barn & there was only minimal contact as I feed & watered them every 5 to 6 days. It was also challenging to catch them with a large net even in the narrow confines of the pen and  they had blinders on in the pen.

 

Don't judge every preserve with what you may have experiened at another. I didn't run my preserve for profit & actually lost money. It was mainly done for my dog's benefit. I did everthing possible to have challenging flight characteristics from my birds.

Edited December 5, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[Curmudgeon]

Sorry to ruffle feathers. The dog story is just an anecdote. He probably wouldn't have flushed ptarmigan either - unless they smelled like grouse - or capercaillie for that matter. He was my one great dog. I don't have any passion for grouse hunting since he died.

 

I have no problem with pheasant hunting on preserves. I do think we need to acknowledge what it is and is not. I do have a problem with people blaming predators for problems that are the result of poor, limited or changing habitat. That is the problem with pheasants in NY. Don't believe that predator control will fix the problem. Maintaining enough pheasant habitat to support a sustaining wild population would be prohibitively expensive. If you want to hunt pheasants in NYS go to a preserve.

 

I do have a problem with "farmed" deer. Not because I find it unethical. There seems an inherent dishonesty in comparing their racks to wild deer. I think the big rack thing has gone too far. Ecologically speaking, we should all be proud to shoot does. Hunting for me is about family, being outdoors and economics - food and protecting the crops. A big rack is gravy.

[wildcat junkie]

BTW: On that 100% success day, the clients missed several birds before they got the hang of it. Max made about 15 successful points that day for 8 birds harvested. There were also hold over birds so the 8 that were released may or may not have been harvested.

 

I count 100% success as 1 bird harvested for every bird released. Some of he birds would survive for weeks, on a few occasions over a year on birds that I could identify as those that I hadn't released that season. A melanistc hen was an example of that & I heard roosters crow occasional for a few years after I quit. There were usually a few holdovers around after the season commenced..

 

Predators do get most of them, but the longer they survive, the better they get at avoiding predators. My birds knew what predarors were as I had to string a solar powered electric fence wire around the pen to keep coyotes out. I would often find their tracks in the snow around the pen. They soon learned not to get too close to the wire though.

 

Hawks & owls would get some of them in the pen. They fly over to get the birds to flush, then they hit them when they are against the net. I would find severed heads & some feathers but no bodies. One Cooper's Hawk got its feet tangled up in the net & died there.

Edited December 5, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

Sorry to ruffle feathers. The dog story is just an anecdote. He probably wouldn't have flushed ptarmigan either - unless they smelled like grouse - or capercaillie for that matter. He was my one great dog. I don't have any passion for grouse hunting since he died.

 

I have no problem with pheasant hunting on preserves. I do think we need to acknowledge what it is and is not. I do have a problem with people blaming predators for problems that are the result of poor, limited or changing habitat. That is the problem with pheasants in NY. Don't believe that predator control will fix the problem. Maintaining enough pheasant habitat to support a sustaining wild population would be prohibitively expensive. If you want to hunt pheasants in NYS go to a preserve.

 

I do have a problem with "farmed" deer. Not because I find it unethical. There seems an inherent dishonesty in comparing their racks to wild deer. I think the big rack thing has gone too far. Ecologically speaking, we should all be proud to shoot does. Hunting for me is about family, being outdoors and economics - food and protecting the crops. A big rack is gravy.

Habitat is the key. I had to keep feeders going to get birds to stay. If I could have afforded to develop some food plots, winter shelter & such they would have stuck around. Feeders suck because predators key in on them while food plots spread the birds around. Good habitat also reduces predator loss.

 

If I didn't feed, the birds would migrate to the North for some reason. I would see them in the neighbors field, then on the road to the north picking grit, then no more.

 

A (very) few would sitck around & they became quite wild. New York winter weather is nothing harsh to a Pheasant. They survive quite well in the wild in North Dakota for cripes sake. They are perfectly capable of surviving St Lawrence Valley winters if the have the proper shelter habitat. Freezing rain is death on them though. I saw wild birds frozen to the ground in Illinois back in the late '60s. I had my own Springer back then.

Edited December 5, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[wildcat junkie]

BTW: Max is my "one great dog" too. I feel that if a man has one dog as good as Max in his life, he is very fortunate. I'm sure your Springer holds the same place in your heart.

 

 

I got him as a "freebie" just before Christmas in 2004. he was 15 months old. That "free" dog ended up costing me thousnd$ in equipment, flight pen material, birds & double barreled shotguns before it was over.

 

For his own safety in case of having to spend a night in the woods, he lived in a 2 room insulated dog house before he retired.

 

 

 

Headed Home after a hunt.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2014 by wildcat junkie

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Sorry to ruffle feathers. The dog story is just an anecdote. He probably wouldn't have flushed ptarmigan either - unless they smelled like grouse - or capercaillie for that matter. He was my one great dog. I don't have any passion for grouse hunting since he died.

 

I have no problem with pheasant hunting on preserves. I do think we need to acknowledge what it is and is not. I do have a problem with people blaming predators for problems that are the result of poor, limited or changing habitat. That is the problem with pheasants in NY. Don't believe that predator control will fix the problem. Maintaining enough pheasant habitat to support a sustaining wild population would be prohibitively expensive. If you want to hunt pheasants in NYS go to a preserve.

 

I do have a problem with "farmed" deer. Not because I find it unethical. There seems an inherent dishonesty in comparing their racks to wild deer. I think the big rack thing has gone too far. Ecologically speaking, we should all be proud to shoot does. Hunting for me is about family, being outdoors and economics - food and protecting the crops. A big rack is gravy.

Really...You blame one part of something when there are a dozen other parts of the puzzle?  Thats the problem right there. You nailed it perfect!  You are ok.. ethical i guess... killing hand fed birds raised by humans but have a problem with someone..unethical i guess... killing a deer because of its rack?  Nice

You dont think hunting is different for different people? You say we all should be proud and your right but we also all should have our own choices!.

[wildcat junkie]

Really...You blame one part of something when there are a dozen other parts of the puzzle?  Thats the problem right there. You nailed it perfect!  You are ok.. ethical i guess... killing hand fed birds raised by humans but have a problem with someone..unethical i guess... killing a deer because of its rack?  Nice

You dont think hunting is different for different people? You say we all should be proud and your right but we also all should have our own choices!.

"Hand fed" is bull.

[wildcat junkie]

A "retired" dog's life is rough.

 

[wdswtr]

Exactly when did opinions become FACTS?  Someone still needs to look up in the Webster dictionary what the word FACT actually means before they use it a dozen times in one post.  Just saying!

[letinmfly]

Really...You blame one part of something when there are a dozen other parts of the puzzle?  Thats the problem right there. You nailed it perfect!  You are ok.. ethical i guess... killing hand fed birds raised by humans but have a problem with someone..unethical i guess... killing a deer because of its rack?  Nice

You dont think hunting is different for different people? You say we all should be proud and your right but we also all should have our own choices!.

 

Ok so here's my take on this.  If I choose to go to a preserve and hunt for pheasants I'm doing because I want to enjoy a day out with friends or relatives and because I enjoy eating them.  At the end of the day we all shot birds, hopefully, and had a great day together.

 

If I go to a ranch to hunt for a rack, which I would never do, it's because I need to show off.  There is absolutely no enjoyment to it!!

Yes I'll shoot a big rack but that is the only thing I'll get out of it besides joining the ranks of the circle jerkers.  It's not done because someone enjoys eating the meat because that equation doesn't even play into it.  These ranch hunts are just to self inflate the egos of the people that do it.  How do you take pride in shooting a deer in an enclosure just to hang the head on your wall?  Please!!!

 

I'll give you a true story... a few years ago I was visiting my taxidermist.  A guy comes in with the grand slam for sheep and wanted them all mounted life size.  I congratulated the guy and asked about his hunts.  He said well I called a ranch in TX and the guy had what I wanted and I went and shot them.  Hmmmm... Anyway it cost him $125,000 to do this so that he could achieve the next level on his SCI standing.  I told him what I thought about him and his accomplishment and what to do with his next level!! 

Edited December 5, 2014 by letinmfly

[Doc]

 

I'll give you a true story... a few years ago I was visiting my taxidermist.  A guy comes in with the grand slam for sheep and wanted them all mounted life size.  I congratulated the guy and asked about his hunts.  He said well I called a ranch in TX and the guy had what I wanted and I went and shot them.  Hmmmm... Anyway it cost him $125,000 to do this so that he could achieve the next level on his SCI standing.  I told him what I thought about him and his accomplishment and what to do with his next level!! 

Ha-ha ..... best trophy money can buy. Hey ..... some people think that's what hunting is all about. For them it's all about ego. They spend their time looking for peer acceptance and that's all hunting is to them.