Feral Cats and Dogs: would you cull them?

[The_Field_Ager]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/pubs/81421.html

When in my stand, I kept seeing a white footed black cat and have always spared it not knowing if it was someone's.

 

 

 

Our cats roam far n wide. I catch 'em on trail cam sometimes. One even likes to come hunting and sit quietly under my stand. Feral cats are usually scrawny and rougher looking. We don't collar our cats. Its dangerous if they are climbing trees.

 

Our cats spend a good deal of time outdoors and do OK. There is always a chance a fox will take one, but it is a risk balanced out by a full life for them. They would drive us nuts if they were indoors all the time...like right now with the snows.

 

They catch the odd critter and generally bring it home for inspection. Number of critters around the property seems not to have taken a hit.Birds I can remember less than 4, and that is with 3 capable cats. One time a live bat was brought into the house. That was somewhat concerning. No idea how it was caught!

 

Neighbors dogs have been on the loose once or twice. Now that does piss me off. They should know better. I have only ever seen one feral cat in our area. He came to live under the deck last winter in the deep snow

Edited March 10, 2015 by Papist

[wildcat junkie]

Back (in medieval times) when I was young, I remember someone of my Dad's generation telling me about the annual game report card that accompanied the PA hunting licenses in the past. It had a line seeking input on the number of feral cats eliminated.

 

Just goes to show ya how times change yet some things (problems) remain the same.

[thunnus]

Our cats roam far n wide...

...Our cats spend a good deal of time outdoors and do OK. There is always a chance a fox will take one, but it is a risk balanced out by a full life for them. They would drive us nuts if they were indoors all the time...like right now with the snows.

Respectfully and w/ no personal ill will, that's really not alright.

They can and will spread disease and often take juvenile mammals and birds for sport.

If you can't stand the company of a house cat, perhaps it's time to find it a new home.

I know it's difficult to change ones mindset, but please look at the research.

If you love wildlife and respect Mother Nature, please keep that pet outdoors. Perhaps when it drives you batty, put on the snow shoes and enjoy Mother Nature.

[The_Field_Ager]

Respectfully and w/ no personal ill will, that's really not alright.

 

 

 

Sorry brother, but cats are here to stay. In fact their people arrived in the new world before my people. My people did a hell of a lot more damage to the wild life too. And I guarantee, Mike Rossi kills more birds then my cats do.

 

Edited March 10, 2015 by Papist

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You have not seen anything until you see a farmer spreading cow manure with an old time beater spreader and seeing dead cats come flying out of the spreader. This guy could never keep the unwanted barn cats under control so every now and again he would thin the herd.  Of course its a tough job when you have the biggest farm on the first side road 2 miles outside of town. People love to drop their problems off on him!

[growalot]

Here is an example of these "pesky" little laws contradicting each other...this is taken from jjb's...http://codes.lp.find...NV/11/5/11-0529

 

But this is taken from the NYS Animal cruety Statute in Ag. and market laws chapter 69 article 26

 

 

374. Humane destruction or other disposition of animals lost, strayed, homeless, abandoned or improperly confined or kept
1. Any agent or officer of the American Society for the Prevention of cruelty to animals, or of any society duly incorporated for that purpose, or any police officer, may lawfully and humanely destroy or cause to be humanely destroyed any animal found abandoned and not properly cared for, or any lost, strayed, homeless or unwanted animal, if upon examination a licensed veterinary surgeon shall certify in writing, or if two reputable citizens called by him to view the same in his presence find that the animal is so maimed, diseased, disabled, or infirm so as to be unfit for any useful purpose; or after such agent or officer has obtained in writing from the owner of such animal his consent to such destruction.

2. In the absence of such findings or certificate the American Society for the Prevention of cruelty to animals or any society duly incorporated for that purpose may after five days humanely destroy any animal of which possession is taken as provided for in the preceding section, unless the same is earlier redeemed by its owner.

2-a. The use of a decompression chamber or decompression device of any kind is hereby declared to be inhumane when used for the purpose of destroying an animal and is hereby prohibited.

2-b. No person shall euthanize any dog or cat with T-61, curare, any curariform drug, any neuro-muscular blocking agent or any other paralyzing drug.

2-c. No person shall euthanize a dog or cat by gunshot except as an emergency procedure for a dangerous dog or a severely injured dog or cat that is suffering and cannot otherwise be aided.

 

 

So I don't think one would want to..advertise any in field decisions

1. Any person over the age of twenty-one years possessing a hunting license may, and environmental conservation officers and peace officers, acting pursuant to their special duties, or police officers shall humanely destroy cats at large found hunting or killing any protected wild bird or with a dead bird of any protected species in its possession - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ENV/11/5/11-0529#sthash.UtmFHkuE.dpuf

 

 

[phade]

 

Here is an example of these "pesky" little laws contradicting each other...this is taken from jjb's...http://codes.lp.find...NV/11/5/11-0529

 

But this is taken from the NYS Animal cruety Statute in Ag. and market laws chapter 69 article 26

 

 

So I don't think one would want to..advertise any in field decisions

1. Any person over the age of twenty-one years possessing a hunting license may, and environmental conservation officers and peace officers, acting pursuant to their special duties, or police officers shall humanely destroy cats at large found hunting or killing any protected wild bird or with a dead bird of any protected species in its possession - See more at: http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/nycode/ENV/11/5/11-0529#sthash.UtmFHkuE.dpuf

 

 

Every feral cat I have ever seen was hunting bald eagles. Phew. I'm safe!

[Curmudgeon]

Every feral cat I have ever seen was hunting bald eagles. Phew. I'm safe!

 

We actually had a feral cat displace a bald eagle that was feeding on a carcass. I wanted the eagle to return and feed on the cat but it didn't happen. There is a story - possibly apocryphal - that when the big eagle nest came down along NY 10 in Delaware County, there were 5 cat collars in it.

 

There is another story I heard first hand of a bald eagle taking a pet cat from a backyard in Portlandville (Otsego County) and making a nice meal of it. My sister's ferocious kitty  - which was known for hunting grouse - was finally eaten by coyotes in her old age. The cat's name ironically was Baby.

 

[growalot]

Weren't bald eagles taken off the endangered list in 2007?? But all native birds are protected under federal law I do believe...not just song birds and threatened species with the exception of house wrens and starlings

[Curmudgeon]

Any native bird that is not a "game bird" is protected. Eagles have additional federal protection. Balds are still listed on the NYS list. They were downgraded from Endangered to Threatened. I can't recall their current federal status but it would be easy to look up for anyone interested.

 

This is the NYS list - http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7494.html

 

[wildcat junkie]

Weren't bald eagles taken off the endangered list in 2007?? But all native birds are protected under federal law I do believe...not just song birds and threatened species with the exception of house wrens and starlings

I think you meant house sparrows?

 

Wrens are a very desirable song bird. I can remember making wren houses as a kid. By restricting the hole to the size of a quarter it would discourage sparrows & other birds from taking over.

 

I have one that comes back every year to eat the bugs in my pole beans. Does a great job!

Edited March 10, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[EspressoBuzz]

374. Humane destruction or other disposition of animals lost, strayed, homeless, abandoned or improperly confined or kept

 

1. Any person over the age of twenty-one years possessing a hunting license may, and environmental conservation officers and peace officers, acting pursuant to their special duties, or police officers shall humanely destroy cats at large found hunting or killing any protected wild bird or with a dead bird of any protected species in its possession

 

These laws apply to different situations and are not contraditory. The truth is laws have to be written with excessive verbage to twart the lawyers that are always working to get their guilty clients off the hook.

 

I don't remember the lawyer who said "Just because you did it doesn't mean your guilty"

 

I am constantly "removing" house sparrows from my bird feeder areas and I cull any Starling I see when hunting farmland.

[diplomat019]

 And I guarantee, Mike Rossi kills more birds then my cats do.

 

I actually laughed out loud at this hahahahahahah

[Elmo]

And I guarantee, Mike Rossi kills more birds then my cats do.

Difference is Mike Rossi selectively kills. I doubt Mike goes around randomly killing birds including protected species.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jennifer]

Some food for thought.  A cat does not have to kill its prey to.. well, kill it. Cats naturally carry Pasteurella multocida in their saliva and under their claws. In addition to Pasteurella spp, a mixed aerobic/anaerobic population has been recovered from the majority of cat bite and claw wounds. The Pasteurella and other bacteria typically create a very rapid and often fatal infection in small animals. Birds in particular are very succeptible. A can can kill a bird simply by capturing it and releasing it unscathed, if the cat mouths the bird at all. Birds must clean their feathers regularly and easily ingest the bacteria this way. It seems that the majority of animals involved with a cat "catch and release" end up perishing.

 

 

Considerable numbers of victims are 'rescued' from the mouths of cats and submitted to bird reception centres for treatment. A number of bird shelters sent birds in this condition to the present authors for closer examination. The majority of birds caught by cats die. The mortality rates in shelters were reported to be 30, 90, 99 and one hundred per cent. Of the birds rescued alive from the mouths of cats, approximately 40 per cent died from the direct effects of the bites, and approximately 60 per cent died from Pasteurella multocida infection.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7376178

 

 

Dogs also carry this bacteria, but it is in a much lower concentration and in general is far less likely to cause infection.

 

(by the way, these bacteria are the ones that cause "Cat Scratch Fever" and over infections in some people when they are bitten or scratched by a cat, and is also why cat bites in humans are so prone to infection)

Edited March 10, 2015 by Jennifer

[growalot]

Wildcat your are right I stand corrected...I was doing a bunch of reading before writing that and due to this link I had house wrens on my mind...Thanks

 

http://nature.gardenweb.com/discussions/2228772/bluebirds-and-house-wrens

[growalot]

Remember I said I don't agree with having feral cats or dogs around...infact this whole thread is interesting considering a few years ago I had my head handed to me when talking about what a problem they are and created for me...but I digress...

The laws to me are ambiguous as far as I can see...Animal cruety laws hold some weight and interpretation...I wouldn't discuss iffy solutions on open forums...just saying

[phade]

We've already went down the path of "if you don't follow the law, you are a horrible human being" in that news story thread. Selective law abiding is not to be tolerated was one camp's position, and the other was selective law abiding is acceptable in certain circumstances.

 

Hopefully nobody in that "100% follow the law" camp has ever violated this one, because that's very hypoctrical.

[Curmudgeon]

You should see what happens when you discuss outdoor cats on bird forums - fireworks.

[growalot]

The one time  I shot a dog  I called the cops..They did nothing...the other times I called DEC about dogs running deer they did nothing....when I ended up in the hospital the guy got fined...

Now I give the owners pictures and get called several  #$^%^#@...@^^##^#@...@%## .....type words for my efforts...

Cats..well there use to be many many many....now we have fishers...they are far more efficient then the yotes or fox apparently.

[wildcat junkie]

We actually had a feral cat displace a bald eagle that was feeding on a carcass. I wanted the eagle to return and feed on the cat but it didn't happen. There is a story - possibly apocryphal - that when the big eagle nest came down along NY 10 in Delaware County, there were 5 cat collars in it.

 

 

Speaking of raptors culling domestic animals.

 

Years ago I got my brother-in-law (Daniel) interested in spring turkey hunting exposing him to pre dawn owl calling to locate gobblers on the roost.

 

Since I had some small acreage in a semi rural area, the family cook-outs were usually held at my place.

 

One evening things were winding down at a cook-out that was held for the visit of another brother-in-law from out of state. (Allan) 

 

Daniel said. Hey Dan show Allen all of your turkey calls. I got out my owl hooter & let out some barred owl calls. Who cooks for you, who cools for youallllll. After a few call sequences I got an answer, & then an answer from another barred owl. I soon had those 2 owls in the immediate vicinity calling & cackling at each other.

 

For several evenings I played with those owls, usually getting at least one of them to come in.

 

Now I'll back up a bit here. I had been having trouble with my neighbor letting his chickens run loose on my property. He raised fighting cocks & participated in chicken fighting. He kept his prize cocks caged but let the hens & peeps run amok. They would peck at the tomatoes in my garden, roost in my shrubbery & generally just were a PITA.

 

After playing around calling in those barred owls for several days, I noticed a marked decrease in chicken activity as in no more chickens running around loose. NONE.

[NFA-ADK]

That's awesome Wildcat! 

[wildcat junkie]

That's awesome Wildcat! 

Well, to be honest, while I liked the outcome, it was entirely an accidental culmination of events.

 

You can rest assured that I have filed that away for future reference though.

Edited March 10, 2015 by wildcat junkie

[fasteddie]

Having a Barred Owl help reduce the varmint chickens is a pretty neat idea !

[fasteddie]

I was shooting woodchucks for a farmer a few years ago . He told me to shoot ant feral cats that I saw . I wasn't about to assume that any cat I saw was feral and that it could be someone's pet so I left the cats alone .