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Explaining hunting to non-hunters


Curmudgeon
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It's a rainy morning so you get what's on my mind:

 

I had a conversation with a friend -  a middle school teacher and non-hunter. She does not object to hunting, Actually, I keep her supplied with non-lead ammo literature. She gives to the hunters in her class. She invited the local paper's outdoor columnist to address her class. After his presentation, a student asked him "Mr. Outdoor Writer, isn't it wrong to kill things?". To this simple question Mr. Outdoor Writer said "God put those creatures on the earth for us to do with as we like" - or words to that effect.

 

Without getting into anyone's religious beliefs, this has to be about one of the worst possible justifications to give to a public audience. It certainly raised my friend's hackles. He won't be invited back.

 

I told my friend if someone asked me the same question, I would immediately ask them if they eat meat. Looking at hunting as a way of acquiring protein - the traditional reason for hunting and still a major factor in these rural areas - hunting is clearly more moral than buying food in a store. Hunters take personal responsibility for the death of the animal instead of buying it wrapped in plastic. I feel the same way about slaughtering livestock. In these cases, the animals had good lives "and one bad day". This may not be true of livestock raised on factory farms but it is true of the animals we raise.

 

If the student was a vegetarian, that is a different set of values. It still raises questions of whether it is okay to kill plants and whether or not non-human predators are "wrong to kill things".

 

I have no real justification for explaining trophy hunting since I don't really understand it. Maybe someone can help me with that.

 

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Without getting into anyone's religious beliefs, this has to be about one of the worst possible justifications to give to a public audience. It certainly raised my friend's hackles. He won't be invited back.

 

 

The worst possible justification? Wow, strong words. And your friend sounds like an anti-religious reactionary bigot, all due respect.

Do explain to us why you feel so strongly to the response that was offered.

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I have no real justification for explaining trophy hunting since I don't really understand it. Maybe someone can help me with that.

 

 

I am not the most gun-ho for trophies myself, but this is an obvious one to explain. Human's enjoy and thrive on challenge.Generally the bigger,older animals are wiser, and therefore present the greater challenge in terms of outwitting them.The feelings of satisfaction from such a hunt are more intense and this contributes to over-all well being. Plus bigger usually looks better and more impressive. We are hardwired to be impressed by scale, it seems.

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"Mr. Outdoor Writer, isn't it wrong to kill things?".

 

This is a complicated thing to answer...It is wrong to kill or intentionally end the life of a living creature for nothing more than enjoyment, ending in no other benefit to that life ending. That being said We all unintentionally kill things everyday from the ant one may step on to the butterfly that is on the windshield of the family car or squirrel under the tire. As your teacher may have taught you in every eco system there are predators and prey. Predators kill for food and the prey provide that food. Predators are at the top of the food chain prey and then plants are at the bottom. Any time we  eat chicken off the summer BBQ or hit Micky D's for a burger,We have been at the top of that food chain...The difference between that and personally going out to shoot a turkey or a deer for the BBQ or burger is the hunter has taken personal responsibility in the taking of those particular life's. As a hunter we have great respect for the sustenance those lives have given us and respect those animals by allowing them their freedom until the time we do our best for a quick clean kill. Most hunters feel a profound respect for the animal they take and treat them with the respect they deserve through their role in lifes eco system.  Now as in all things there are the good and the bad...most hunters are good and respectful...just like most farmers treat their live stock  well whether that livestock becomes a chicken nugget or provides eggs for your Birthday cake and milk to wash it down with. The thing we all need to learn is how to treat not only each other with respect but the animals that help us through our lives with respect in the roles they play, be it life or death.

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I am not the most gun-ho for trophies myself, but this is an obvious one to explain. Human's enjoy and thrive on challenge.Generally the bigger,older animals are wiser, and therefore present the greater challenge in terms of outwitting them.The feelings of satisfaction from such a hunt are more intense and this contributes to over-all well being. Plus bigger usually looks better and more impressive. We are hardwired to be impressed by scale, it seems.

So True. I hold myself..At this age..To need to have a quarry that is the smartest,hardest to find and extremely hard to harvest. I believe there are also 2 kinds of trophy hunters...The ones that have to have every animal put on this earth mounted on their wall and then the ones that hunt for the meat to enjoy from an animal but that animal still has to be the tops of that species.  

 

In the case of the Whitetail, that trophy can be a mature almost unkillable animal with ten inch spikes or it could be a 2 year old with 150 inches of bone on his head. For some hunters...   Others may have a different idea of what a trophy is. Thats what makes it so nice!

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It's probably too much for a middle school student to comprehend, but I'd explain that people hunt not only for food, tradition, the challenge or "chase", but also because we need to maintain a balance in nature. Because there are not enough natural predators to keep animal populations in check, this is where man steps in. If we didn't eliminate (or kill) enough game animals, they would either starve, freeze, or die from disease. In essence, by killing many of them we are helping them to remain strong.

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nobody not into hunting cares about the "case" or even that it's a "tradition".  however, when you explain the quality and description of life a deer has versus say the beef that are raised from the beginning for them to pick up in the grocery store it opens eyes.  also some some in rural areas use venison to feed families and others food closets feeding much less fortunate is a selling point.  If you describe natural causes of death versus a humane harvest from a hunter its very eye opening.  winter survival, predation by coyotes or bears, and things like CWD or auto collsion death come across much worse.  kids hit home.  when you explain that when you know where venison came from versus even organic store bought meat and health benefits you demand for your kids they usually understand.  also they listen when you explain how raising your young adult around hunting has made them a responsible and when needed mature individual.  how can they agrue when you explain that time and time again they've proven that by safely handling potentially deadly weapons under close supervision.  from there you can go into the other stuff about "fair chase", God given rights (verses from Kings or Acts), how you actually respect that animal who's life you're ending, or even scientific life cycle/food chain stuff.

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I once had a survival job teaching. I had the kids bring cameras. Before the "hunt" I asked if there was a consensus about turtles being slow and small brained. I got that consensus, and then asked if that is established, do we agree turtles would be easier to hunt then this or that. They agreed so.

 

I took them to some log jams I suspected turtles would be basking. I chose a location were the stalk wasnt too easy, like a cliff... 

 

I divided up the class into threes. I told the biggest, loudest boys that my estimation is that they will make the worst hunters, to which they scoffed. Of course when the photos were compared, I was dead on. The girls, who were less egotisical and more inclined to follow instructions, were able to get good photos. The bigger the boy the worse, bumbling around like a bull , two not even able to get one reptile on film... 

 

So now I got these photos and a captured audience. I winded off about everything from the ability of small brained  turtles to evade people to the excitement and challenge of stalking them for a photo. Then I hit on hunting again... That is a good way to preempt a lecture about hunting to kids... 

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The worst possible justification? Wow, strong words. And your friend sounds like an anti-religious reactionary bigot, all due respect.

Do explain to us why you feel so strongly to the response that was offered.

 

As I said in my initial post - Because it was a public audience. If it were a Christian school it would have been an acceptable response. The children of humanists, atheists, or any non-Judeo/Christian belief system will find what he said to be NO JUSTIFICATION AT ALL.

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As I said in my initial post - Because it was a public audience. If it were a Christian school it would have been an acceptable response. The children of humanists, atheists, or any non-Judeo/Christian belief system will find what he said to be NO JUSTIFICATION AT ALL.

 

Did he specially refer to a Christian God? And NO JUSTIFICATION AT ALL, is not the same as 'the worst' justification of all.

Anyway, unless the school was an Islamic Madrasa, it is a reasonable bet that 70+ % of students where from a Christian background, no matter how nominal.

 

Catering to minorities is cultural suicide.Just look at the demise of Europe.

 

Incidentally, the outdoor guy is perfectly free and entitled to express himself in America, in such a manner as he did. Anything less is fascism.

Edited by Papist
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I see my role as persuading non-hunters to support hunting. I believe that requires a rationale that is understandable by everyone who eats meat. It is beyond religion.

 

Thanks Virgil - I was literally laughing out loud when I read your post.

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"One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted...If one were to present the sportsman with the death of the animal as a gift he would refuse it. What he is after is having to win it, to conquer the surly brute through his own effort and skill with all the extras that this carries with it: the immersion in the countryside, the healthfulness of the exercise, the distraction from his job.

Jose Ortega y Gasset, Meditations on Hunting

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IMHO, non-hunters do not support hunting in their hearts.  They may be convinced it isn't a bad thing, but they will not actively support it when it is threatened, because they have no personal use for it.  The best you can hope for is their apathy towards it.

 

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"How, given the canine teeth and close-set eyes that declare the human animal to be a predator, had we come up with the notion that oat bran is more natural to eat than chicken?"

Valerie Martin, The Great Divorce

 

 

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"The true trophy hunter is a self-disciplined perfectionist seeking a single animal, the ancient patriarch well past his prime that is often an outcast from his own kind... If successful, he will enshrine the trophy in a place of honor. This is a more noble and fitting end than dying on some lost and lonely ledge where the scavengers will pick his bones, and his magnificent horns will weather away and be lost forever."

Elgin Gates, Trophy Hunter in Asia

 
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"No culture has yet solved the dilemma each has faced with the growth of a conscious mind: how to live a moral and compassionate existence when one is fully aware of the blood, the horror inherent in all life, when one finds darkness not only in one's own culture but within oneself... There are simply no answers to some of the great pressing questions. You continue to live them out, making your life a worthy expression of a leaning into the light."

Barry Lopez, Arctic Dreams

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She invited the local paper's outdoor columnist to address her class. After his presentation, a student asked him "Mr. Outdoor Writer, isn't it wrong to kill things?". 

 

 

Simply say, "No".  Wait for the student's rebuttal, which will be convoluted and full of moral righteousness, then ask if he knows the difference between killing and murder.

 

Everything that lives kills.  Murder is evil, hunting is not.  To eat, killing is required, unless you eat something like rocks.

Edited by Mr VJP
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Simply say, "No".  Wait for the student's rebuttal, which will be convoluted and full of moral righteousness, then ask if he knows the difference between killing and murder.

 

 

I surrender. The biblical response wasn't the "worst" possible.

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