Food for thought: yearling buck protection

[Five Seasons]

I agree with the real estate points you made but I put it in quotes because I meant the social aspect of how it use to be more so than a physical location. The groups of yesterday are fading and it has turned to a one or two person endeavor now.

 

I know a lot of today's hunters who are super serious became bow hunters. 30 years ago the bowhunter was a very small minority and the gun hunter was all we knew. Bowhunting is a solitary game and you can't reek of jack and cigs. Then deer camp rolls around and we still partake, and we have the group that shows up and drinks and doesn't even go into the woods... but that group is shrinking. Somehow society has changed where having "guy time" doesn't seem to be ok anymore for the family man. My wife's awesome about hunting time, but once gun rolls around I know I've tested her patience and the time away dwindles.

[Five Seasons]

Tall Antlers, tight spread:

 

and a 1.5 year old 8 point. there's always exceptions, no way around it.

 

 

the spread and beam is not that difficult

[Five Seasons]

BTW. to answer your question: Yes  I did and even with my statement would..you need to put up a better example. The sunset / sun rise is about safety...My  statement is about pure BS in a so called management policy.  One that as far as inside spread goes has no baring on a bucks age.

 

if you can't see 10 minutes after sunrise or sunset then you need to get your eyes checked.

[dbHunterNY]

No he meant 1.5 year old's ...because the same guys that would and do hold out for the hopes of a bigger buck into the ML season or bow will now take that smaller buck as to not burn the tag....but Do Not Underestimate the spitefulness of a ticked off hunter. There is going to be and echoing of ..F--- It's through out the SZ Hills as younger deer hit the ground. I guarantee this.

 

yea I picked up what he was getting at from the other thread.  for the love of NY hunting I'd hope you folks out there would not wait, be already out there, and fill a tag with a 1.5 yr old buck versus a doe in the target area.

 

spitefulness in this way will do absolutely nothing to DEC and instead you'll feel more pain in the target areas.  I guarantee that.  what's done is done.  complaining you fill your share of doe tags means obviously nothing.  the only way to deal with it now is to encourage others to follow suite and take a responsible number of doe.  then let your voice be heard and DEC will see you don't need the restrictions on buck harvest anymore to increase doe harvest.

 

[Buckstopshere]

After checking out the Mississippi AR regs...here is an interesting quote from the Mississippi DNR, "Research indicates the prior 4-point law allowed the harvest of better quality yearling bucks, while protecting older-aged spikes and 3-point bucks. The result has been a decrease in antler size within age classes of older bucks. The combination of the 4-point law, high hunting pressure, and lower reproduction results in the over-harvest of bucks and a decrease in antler size."

 

Before New York institutes a statewide Buck Zone AR program based on counting points like in the existing NY AR DMU's and Pa.,  first, call into question the Mississippi biologists and their conclusion. Again, who is right and who is wrong? The last thing we need is an over-harvest of any age class of deer as was found in Mississippi, especially precipitated by a new experimental regulation.  It would seem that there is enough significant disagreement among the AR game managers in New York, Pennsylvania, and Mississippi concerning which set of standards to use, counting points or spread that this question be also addressed.  

[jjb4900]

No he meant 1.5 year old's ...because the same guys that would and do hold out for the hopes of a bigger buck into the ML season or bow will now take that smaller buck as to not burn the tag....but Do Not Underestimate the spitefulness of a ticked off hunter. There is going to be and echoing of ..F--- It's through out the SZ Hills as younger deer hit the ground. I guarantee this.

kinda the attitude I developed the first year of AR's in my zone...........after seeing nothing but small antlered bucks, when late season rolled around, I took whatever antlerless deer I wanted, I got over it the next year......but all it takes is a bunch of guys to adopt that attitude for a year or two and it may have devastating results.

[dbHunterNY]

and a 1.5 year old 8 point. there's always exceptions, no way around it.

 

 

the spread and beam is not that difficult

Capture.JPG

 

you're right. spread and beam is not that difficult.  my group can get a 100 land owners and idk how many hutners across 12,000 relatively contiguous acres to do figure it out, that otherwise shot anything legal.  I have faith others could too here in NY. 

[moog5050]

and a 1.5 year old 8 point. there's always exceptions, no way around it.

 

 

the spread and beam is not that difficult

Capture.JPG

 

Belo

 

You look about as happy as the buck in that photo.  Sorry, couldn't resist.

[growalot]

 

  the only way to deal with it now is to encourage others to follow suite and take a responsible number of doe.  then let your voice be heard and DEC will see you don't need the restrictions on buck harvest anymore to increase doe harvest.

 

I am not about to go around telling other hunter what they need to be or should be shooting period. This plan has so many holes in it it looks like my kitchen cullender. I will gladly to my self out of the equation and NO I will NOT participate in such a keystone cop type of plan...I will hunt legally and the way I wish in two other areas.. In fact I set up a boundary walk and will start scouting next week . My 8N doe takes are switching up to 8M and 8X

[growalot]

 

if you can't see 10 minutes after sunrise or sunset then you need to get your eyes checked.

 

 I do not know where you hunt ...but your clueless ...for when your hunting deep mature hard woods and pines in HILL country It's a hell of a lot different then hunting open fields and flat lands.... as far as what is good and bad light ...That is just fact

[Culvercreek hunt club]

yea I picked up what he was getting at from the other thread.  for the love of NY hunting I'd hope you folks out there would not wait, be already out there, and fill a tag with a 1.5 yr old buck versus a doe in the target area.

 

spitefulness in this way will do absolutely nothing to DEC and instead you'll feel more pain in the target areas.  I guarantee that.  what's done is done.  complaining you fill your share of doe tags means obviously nothing.  the only way to deal with it now is to encourage others to follow suite and take a responsible number of doe.  then let your voice be heard and DEC will see you don't need the restrictions on buck harvest anymore to increase doe harvest.

 

I hunt in multiple WMU's. I can tell you one thing. I won't be in 8H for the majority of the now restricted season. If I am going to climb into a stand in late ML, it will be in an area where I can take a buck if I see one. Early bow will probably have some in 8h but not my areas wit the best buck hunting. They just gave a big FU to guys in the areas that do their part and practice QDM. They took the wrong route.

[dbHunterNY]

I hunt in multiple WMU's. I can tell you one thing. I won't be in 8H for the majority of the now restricted season. If I am going to climb into a stand in late ML, it will be in an area where I can take a buck if I see one. Early bow will probably have some in 8h but not my areas wit the best buck hunting. They just gave a big FU to guys in the areas that do their part and practice QDM. They took the wrong route.

 

I can understand those reasons you gave and I especially understand what's in bold.  it takes effort and work to do ones part.  I whole heartedly think you all got the shaft in that sense.

[dbHunterNY]

I am not about to go around telling other hunter what they need to be or should be shooting period. This plan has so many holes in it it looks like my kitchen cullender. I will gladly to my self out of the equation and NO I will NOT participate in such a keystone cop type of plan...I will hunt legally and the way I wish in two other areas.. In fact I set up a boundary walk and will start scouting next week . My 8N doe takes are switching up to 8M and 8X

 

wasn't telling you to go give orders.  those like you who try to do their part just got screwed over by those less educated in the topic at hand, that might not know any better or don't do anything to help the situation.  now DEC thinks they've got to do drastic and ridiculous things to fix it.... I realize this all just came to light but now the question is what do you intend to do about it?  you just gave your answer, which sounds to me like screw it all and walk away.  nothing wrong with that it's your decision.  phade brought up a good point that it's not apparent yet what DEC's goals are for doe management in the target areas.  I'd be calling up once everyday until they answer.  if the region 8 biologist's voicemail fills up everyday from people asking the question, even if he/she doesn't know the answer they sure as hell will find out.

[Doc]

and a 1.5 year old 8 point. there's always exceptions, no way around it.

 

the spread and beam is not that difficult

Capture.JPG

Notice how perfectly posed those illustrations are. However, I do know how to arrange the head-on view. Of course it will result in the whitetail's instant version of flipping the finger as the white flag waves bye-bye.

 

The perfect side view  doesn't happen all that often either, and seldom is there really all that much time to analyze and study if the pose is exactly right to calculate the measurements. But it all looks good in a diagram.

[Doc]

yea I picked up what he was getting at from the other thread.  for the love of NY hunting I'd hope you folks out there would not wait, be already out there, and fill a tag with a 1.5 yr old buck versus a doe in the target area.

 

spitefulness in this way will do absolutely nothing to DEC and instead you'll feel more pain in the target areas.  I guarantee that.  what's done is done.  complaining you fill your share of doe tags means obviously nothing.  the only way to deal with it now is to encourage others to follow suite and take a responsible number of doe.  then let your voice be heard and DEC will see you don't need the restrictions on buck harvest anymore to increase doe harvest.

You know as well as I do that the deer population cannot be managed by bowhunters. It also may occur to you that the situation will not change because this war on bowhunters can never achieve what they are claiming it will. And so this fiasco will become an engrained regulation that bowhunters in these areas will be saddled with for the foreseeable future. Add to that all the little brain-farts that keep popping up in the minds of DEC management, and the bowhunters in the affected areas had better get used to chronic and ever-increasing DEC harassment.

[growalot]

 

I will gladly to my self out of the equation

 

That's gladly take myself out of the equation...

[dbHunterNY]

You know as well as I do that the deer population cannot be managed by bowhunters. It also may occur to you that the situation will not change because this war on bowhunters can never achieve what they are claiming it will. And so this fiasco will become an engrained regulation that bowhunters in these areas will be saddled with for the foreseeable future. Add to that all the little brain-farts that keep popping up in the minds of DEC management, and the bowhunters in the affected areas had better get used to chronic and ever-increasing DEC harassment.

 

i do understand.  that wasn't my point.  encourage others to chip in (including those with a gun) and it'll all go away.  heck I'd even ponder not shooting any doe with a bow and shooting them all with a gun to get a point across. encouraging others to do so as well.  that goes against my better judgement of knowing it's best to take doe early before phases of the rut kick in.  anyone out in the target WMU start an online petition yet even for their primary WMU?

[growalot]

db hunter,

You really aren't getting the point here....they are in charge of managing the wildlife in NYS for all it's people....  irregardless if it be hunters,landowners , farmers, golf courses operators ect... ect. When they are putting into play regulations that will have an effect, not only on the wild life but on the states hunters, business's, land owners and recreationist, they should be required to make sure they have all the #'s needed to back up those decisions. They should be presented in a clear and concise manner.  We, the people of this state being effected, should not have to call beg and badger them to do what they are being paid to do. They Also need to have a clear and concise explanation the reasons for each and every decision . Whether it be in a public forum and or published document

[Four Season Whitetail's]

db hunter,

You really aren't getting the point here....they are in charge of managing the wildlife in NYS for all it's people....  irregardless if it be hunters,landowners , farmers, golf courses operators ect... ect. When they are putting into play regulations that will have an effect, not only on the wild life but on the states hunters, business's, land owners and recreationist, they should be required to make sure they have all the #'s needed to back up those decisions. They should be presented in a clear and concise manner.  We, the people of this state being effected, should not have to call beg and badger them to do what they are being paid to do. They Also need to have a clear and concise explanation the reasons for each and every decision . Whether it be in a public forum and or published document

Yeah when is the last time that happened in Ny?  The Safe Act should have shown everybody that all bets are off the table and you either do things their way or you do thinks your way.  Many fold and just go along with whatever rules are put in front of them and others do things their own way...Like Doc said in another post...Today your mad about something and the next day people forget all about it and just live with it.

[nyantler]

Notice how perfectly posed those illustrations are. However, I do know how to arrange the head-on view. Of course it will result in the whitetail's instant version of flipping the finger as the white flag waves bye-bye.

 

The perfect side view  doesn't happen all that often either, and seldom is there really all that much time to analyze and study if the pose is exactly right to calculate the measurements. But it all looks good in a diagram.

Beam length and antler spread are far easier to see than counting points and much better for judging maturity if in fact killing mature bucks is the objective... But, to your point I think the bigger problem is that hunters don't feel the need for and/or don't understand or care about the objective. That is where ARs in NY will always fall short... if the hunters are not in it all the way they will be looking for the closest animal to the minimum standard...which will always be a recipe for failure... if the DEC can't get all on board to take the time to make sure they are shooting the right buck then no program or restriction will ever work effectively... I do agree with you however that most hunters would rather not have to take the time, mostly because they have no use for the program itself.

[Five Seasons]

Belo

 

You look about as happy as the buck in that photo.  Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

that was about 10 years ago. I guess I thought I was cool. haha.

[Five Seasons]

 I do not know where you hunt ...but your clueless ...for when your hunting deep mature hard woods and pines in HILL country It's a hell of a lot different then hunting open fields and flat lands.... as far as what is good and bad light ...That is just fact

 

it's You're grow.

 

and I have never hunted deer in a field. You wont win the 10 minute after sunset argument. Most other states give you 30 for crying out loud.

[Five Seasons]

Notice how perfectly posed those illustrations are. However, I do know how to arrange the head-on view. Of course it will result in the whitetail's instant version of flipping the finger as the white flag waves bye-bye.

 

The perfect side view  doesn't happen all that often either, and seldom is there really all that much time to analyze and study if the pose is exactly right to calculate the measurements. But it all looks good in a diagram.

 

there is no perfect method. I just feel it's the best. Honestly after this bs with doe only, I will give up on ARs for now. This state is so messed up from taxes, loss of jobs, safe act and the DEC we can't expect it to get better.