Get your vaseline ready NY! Its here...

[Doc]

Doc,

It's more the 6 week archery season which the antler less take is 30% compared to the 50% in other seasons they want changed.

They obviously feel it is not being utilized to there benefit and want to increase the amount of antler less deer taken during this time. So they are asking/telling bow hunters to shoot more deer or they will be bringing in muzzle loaders to the archery season.

As the responses show in this thread of those who either won't shoot doe or won't even bother to hunt, we can almost bet on having a early muzzle loader season next year.

 

No it is not obvious as to what they feel. Their stated goal is to reduce the burdensome deer herd in that cluster of WMUs. That is all they have said, the rest is simply imaginings of what you wish they had said.

 

Now if you wish to engage in dreamland imagining, how about we speculate that maybe they think it is a mistake to reserve so much season for a weapon that is not as efficient as guns? Maybe they would like bow season to go away so they could use guns to whack the herd as they see fit. Maybe they have discovered a way to do that and without any established goals stated, they can simply begin by moving muzzleloaders into the bow seasons. and perhaps take things from there. Maybe this is what they have planned and no matter what we do, it is just a calculated foregone conclusion as to how it will come out.

 

See how easy it is to speculate? We can all do it. But until some actual proof or official public statements come out, the fact is that we have to take them at their word ..... which is that they have too many deer and this is their whacked-out way of handling it. Judge it for what it is, not what you imagine it to be.

[Doc]

Grow,

It doesn't affect me THIS year, but all these hissy fits knee jerk reactions aren't going to help bow hunters.

Next year year when there is a two week muzzleloader season thrown in archery season don't start whining!

See after that happens the two week season will spread throughout the state and Us True bow hunters who can actually see what's coming and are trying to prevent it will all be affected

So either bowhunters try and shoot does in the affected areas and try to appease DEC even the slightest or welcome the guns with open arms.

Pick a side

You talk like there are options here ..... ha-ha. We don't even know if the DEC targets are achievable. They are not public. All I know is that bowhunters will never be able to manage deer populations on their own regardless of what the DEC threatens. And with built in failure as the only possible outcome, the DEC gets their early muzzleloader season that they tried so hard to insert a decade ago. Coincidence??? .... I think not. I know that such a devious plan gives them guys a whole lot more credit that they probably deserve, but it does make one wonder if there really is any way that we can stave off the arrival of firearms deer hunting in the bow season. I think not!

[Culvercreek hunt club]

How does that solve access?

It doesn't but it extends season for what access there is. Increasing opportunity

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I'd think same situation we've got now. limited participation. hot days to me are just as worry worthy as cold ones. I've passed deer early season on a hot Sunday evening, because i don't really have time to deal with it right away and have to work the following day. early archery season is ample enough time for me to fill tags. i don't think it'd change my harvest numbers.

Gun in September would not increase participation? Come on

[Culvercreek hunt club]

"So you think they put a two week antlerless season in archery to take more doe in gun season?"

Your words. I never said anything of the sort.

I said they need more doe killed. Why the heck would it matter what season it happens in? At the end of the season, they are dead all the same. Adding heavier pressure at the beginning of the season will be counter productive, I assume you have some understanding of what hunting pressure does to deer activity on a property. If not, a little reading on the subject will clear it up for you.

A week or two off before bow opens will let them return to some sort of normal. I see it in just the week after gun prior to the ML weekend. Might even wise up the 1.5 year old bucks a bit prior to the bow or gun regular opener

[WNYBuckHunter]

having a tough time with this WNY,  I never said you said it, feel free to point that out now that you have said it twice.

 

See the question mark ????? Its a question i asked

 

"They need more doe killed"

 

Do we agree you said this?

 

They made a two week antlers only archery season.

 

Do we agree on this?

 

So i know i asked you the question again.

 

Im not having a hard time, if that was supposed to be a question, maybe you should have worded it correctly. It looked like you were asserting that I made that comment. If what you meant was "Do you think they put a two week antlerless season in archery to take more doe in gun season?", then its a stupid question. The obvious answer would be no. To expand upon that, I have already said that their plan is misguided and will not work to reach the goal of killing more does.

[growalot]

What to do? Lets see... When I called in my tags  last year I was told how many unused tags I had if I recall...which was a first and surprised me a bit...so what is the problem in solving two issues at once...give me the dang tags from the get go or at least 1 extra... When they give me my tags they clearly see I hunt and live in one of the effected areas it's right there in print. So then when I'm done filling those tags  and call them in or go to an issuing agent they can put the information in and I would be allowed to hunt buck and or get another tag...WHY? because they would have real time take #'s in those areas..It could show those issuing agents that on such and such a date 8N hunters have taken this many doe. That would allow hunters to do what the DEC wants.  Then if I could not get the doe killed in that time period well than that would be on me and I'd deal with the consequence of it by not hunting buck until the 15th

So in this, if the #'s come up that many many hunters in those target zones are finding it difficult filling those tags...It should alert the DEC to what is really out there..for the hunters have a goal in that two weeks...to be able to hunt buck for at least part of it..  Yes this is earn a buck, but it will get reporting #'s up and real time Deer #'s..give a hunter an incentive and his own accountability and he will come through...but the biggest view here is an account of how many doe are really out there...when giving a large group an opportunity to actually participate in gathering info they want, then they will work to fulfill that goal...

 

Tell them they aren't getting it done and acting like they are some how being slapped on the wrist...then black mailed with a You better or else, isn't going to do any thing but shut them down...human nature ppl.  Now we know this is possible the only real change would issuing agents in these areas would have a bit more work spread out over those two weeks..Nothing catastrophic and the programming would have to be made to see end of day deer report #'s in order to decide if more tags should be issued or perhaps too many were ..I can't see where an extra tag per hunter in these areas would be a problem...

 The only other draw back is heat... give these hunters a place to take these deer to be used with out fear of the meat going bad. If there were one or two central areas that guys could drive in each unit,  where they were in a cool area to at  least hang be-bone and take the meat home to finish or take to a butcher for sausage  with out fly's  and temperature worries ......You would have a heck of a lot more guys killing deer. Even if refrigeration trucks were set up here and there that two weeks. ...bring them in skin be-bone and find a person willing to take the scrap away...Ooppss.... that would cost  $$$. Well if insurance companies and farmers even home owners want the deer gone  then let them pitch in with some $$$$,,man power...get college student in the conservation field as volunteers and they can gather info as a grade...get gun clubs to find volunteers ect ect...If deer are a community problem then get the community involved. If the DEC and the public want to view hunters as a tool  ...They need to realize a tool is only as good as the hand the wields it.

 

[Five Seasons]

I'd think same situation we've got now.  limited participation.  hot days to me are just as worry worthy as cold ones.  I've passed deer early season on a hot Sunday evening, because i don't really have time to deal with it right away and have to work the following day.  early archery season is ample enough time for me to fill tags.  i don't think it'd change my harvest numbers.

 

I'm in the same boat. To take an early season doe the conditions have to be right. Preferably it's a morning hunt so I don't have to fuss around with night time nonsense. I would want an ideal shot and be at a stand with a relatively easy drag.

 

A hot day isn't good for hanging, I try not to take any bad shots, but we all know we take less than ideal shots at good bucks. I don't like tracking in the dark unless I have to and I would prefer to pick a day where I have some time to cut her up.

 

Most of these aren't an issue later in the year and that's why I tend to take doe then. Additionally if I do end up with 2 bucks, that doe or 2 is too much meat for us. Yes I'm blessed to see deer almost every sit and I can understand that's not what everyone experiences.

[Five Seasons]

Am I the only one who wont shoot a doe with yearlings?

 

I can't tell you how many times I've had family groups that I refused to shoot for that very reason. You can't force me to do something I just wont feel good about. Shot a very mature doe 2 years ago with the mz. 2 yearling doe with her. One ended up coming back and watched as I gutted her. I had felt at the time out of the 5 doe, taking 1 wouldn't be an issue so I took the shot for the freezer. 2 weeks later after a lot more snow I found the yearling dead 10' from where the mature doe died. Never again.

[Five Seasons]

A week or two off before bow opens will let them return to some sort of normal. I see it in just the week after gun prior to the ML weekend. Might even wise up the 1.5 year old bucks a bit prior to the bow or gun regular opener

 

boo culver. boo!

[growalot]

 

A hot day isn't good for hanging, I try not to take any bad shots, but we all know we take less than ideal shots at good bucks. I don't like tracking in the dark unless I have to and I would prefer to pick a day where I have some time to cut her up.

 

 I have tracked a few deer in the dark...I've waited until midnight to go out and  returned home at 3am with a gutted deer to hang...the only thing I do not like about it is having the head lamp on and my hands in the deers cavity...to look up and see I have a few sets of glowing eyes not to far away watching me...now that is just a tad freaky in bear and yote country...I do a lot of singing and talking out loud when I clean a deer in the dark woods.....

[growalot]

The only problem I have with it is a single fawn...I have sat in my stand when the guys around me have hammered doe..and the sounds of little fawn running this way and that blatting is seriously gut wrenching to me..I have had a few seasons where this has happened and it is very uncomfortable....

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Am I the only one who wont shoot a doe with yearlings?

I can't tell you how many times I've had family groups that I refused to shoot for that very reason. You can't force me to do something I just wont feel good about. Shot a very mature doe 2 years ago with the mz. 2 yearling doe with her. One ended up coming back and watched as I gutted her. I had felt at the time out of the 5 doe, taking 1 wouldn't be an issue so I took the shot for the freezer. 2 weeks later after a lot more snow I found the yearling dead 10' from where the mature doe died. Never again.

The. Take them all in the group and it solves the problem. Lol

[Culvercreek hunt club]

boo culver. boo!

This would achieve what they want. Can't understand why they didn't entertain the option

[orion]

Ok quick QUESTION, is that clear enough WNY

This is what you said about the assumption that the DEC wanted to increase the antlerless deer take during archery season.

In post #551 doc said it was my "imagining"

In post #514 in a response to stubby WNY said it was "false pretenses"

Now for Doc and WNY,

Do you really believe my assumption that the DEC by implementing the two week antlerless archery period (however ill conceived and ridiculous it is) that this assumption that it was to increase the antlerless take during archery season is wrong?

[WNYBuckHunter]

It doesn't but it extends season for what access there is. Increasing opportunity

 

Right, but you still have the same guys hunting the same land. Success rates wouldnt increase by much. They have already admitted that throwing more and more DMPs at the areas has not had the desired effect. Heck, for 8H, you can go get leftover DMPs on the last day of the season. If people arent filling tags for reasons like:

 

-They cant fill them because they arent getting chances at the deer on the property they hunt

-They wont fill them because they dont need the extra meat

-They wont fill them because they dont want to decimate the deer numbers on their property

-They wont fill them because they just refuse to shoot does

 

then not much is going to change. There is also a ton of land out there that is not hunted at all or hunted very little, that no special season or additional DMPs will have any effect on.

 

I just dont see much changing without some sort of solution to the access issues in this region.

[Five Seasons]

This would achieve what they want. Can't understand why they didn't entertain the option

 

bangs during archery ruins the whole archery experience. if it comes to that, why not just start rifle on 10/1 and go till christmas?

[WNYBuckHunter]

Ok quick QUESTION, is that clear enough WNY

This is what you said about the assumption that the DEC wanted to increase the antlerless deer take during archery season.

In post #551 doc said it was my "imagining"

In post #514 in a response to stubby WNY said it was "false pretenses"

Now for Doc and WNY,

Do you really believe my assumption that the DEC by implementing the two week antlerless archery period (however ill conceived and ridiculous it is) that this assumption that it was to increase the antlerless take during archery season is wrong?

 

Before I heard what Hurst said on the radio, I was under the impression that DEC just wanted more doe killed. Now that I heard him speak, he plainly said they want them killed during bow season.

[WNYBuckHunter]

bangs during archery ruins the whole archery experience. if it comes to that, why not just start rifle on 10/1 and go till christmas?

 

I dont know about your spot, but most of archery season, Im listening to waterfowlers, and small game hunters banging away anyhow. Doesnt ruin my experience and it doesnt make the deer sketchy.

[The_Field_Ager]

If I had to put up with the firing squads that open up around me during gun, Bow season would effectively have been abolished. Our deer get totally skittish and on edge.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Papist

[stubby68]

            Doc, What is logical is to think that the season where they put the doe only weeks is the season they want the doe taken. They said we have a polpulatio in these areas lets look and see what can be done about this. First thing the did is look at deer take numbers. They then see that more doe are taken during gun season then during bow. They then thought bow is the longest season and takes the least amount of doe lets see if we can get more doe taken during bow season and see if that changes anything. Maybe they did Maybe they didnt but the conclusion was that the way to up the doe take during bow season was to put in a doe only period. Why should they have to specifacly say we want mor doe killed during bow season when the 2 week doe only season should say that with out words. If you tell your boss you want more money do you have to tell him it needs to go in your check or do you just assume he knows you want it in your check? Or should he give more money to another emploey and say I didnt know where you wanted the money to go so that is what I did with it?

 

                    All this may be speculation yet it is more logical then screaming they are attacking bow hunting or they are trying to do away with bow hunting, or that they want bow hunters to handle all the population controll which is waht you and many others are yelling. That is compleat speculation on your part. No where did anyone say (DEC included that bow hunters need to do all the population controll. No where did anyone ( again even the dec) say that they wanted to do away with bow hunting. How ever the bow hunters are saying loud and clear that what the dec is trying will not work and that bow hunters will make sure it does not work. Why not shoot the does during bow season and then when they come up with the same number of dead doe for the year you can say see we were right same number were killed they just got spread out .  Then you could honestly say they were wrong and you were right.

 

               Grow, You keep saying the Dec is black maleing you into shooting does yet your first paragraph is saying you would be fine with acyuall blackmale is it not. I mean you are saying you would be fine with them telling you shoot a doe or you can not have a buck tag. Or did I read that wrong? saying shoot a doe or no buck  is more blackmale then 2 weeks doe only then have at it with a buck weather you got a doe or not.

 

              I do have a question I can not come up with an answer for. It has been said in here many times that early oct is too warm to shoot does yet bucks would still be shot. My question is does warm weather affect a dead doe more so then it affect a dead buck? I ask this only because when someone says ( which a lot have) I do not shoot doe in early bow because it is to warm so that is why I shoot bucks I can not figure out how warm temps would affect one more then another.

 

                       

[growalot]

Again if they give me the tags...I already shoot doe at that time when they give me the opportunity..just look at the pics I posted...but I could also shoot a buck MY CHOICE. I Wasn't being told shoot them in that2 weeks or we'll do something even more drastic..That is black mail no matter how you word it...Again many of us. read carefully have only one tag during that time span to use.

Now to what I was referring to when I said it was Ok...That was if they give me a chance to earn the rest of that 2weeks to take a buck and my knowing they were actually trying to get real time doe #'s at the same time..

Again a big difference to take and manage one buck in the heat to several doe ..they say they want taken at that time..BTW I gave a possible solution to that..again while gathering needed information on the herd. Like I said I take doe when they give me the opportunity and I put post up to donate doe so I can shoot them when I have tags..That is fact that I have put up on this site...This is black mail..I don't do black mail.

Edited August 11, 2015 by growalot

[Culvercreek hunt club]

bangs during archery ruins the whole archery experience. if it comes to that, why not just start rifle on 10/1 and go till christmas?

I do t have an issue with that in a problem area either. I can't see this as any different than a September goose season going on. Small game season or duck season. Following regular season I see a marked increase of movement in legal shooting time movement after a week. When you add back in pre-rut and rut activity to push them towards more movement following a special gun Season in mid September, I can't see a huge negative effect

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Doc, What is logical is to think that the season where they put the doe only weeks is the season they want the doe taken. They said we have a polpulatio in these areas lets look and see what can be done about this. First thing the did is look at deer take numbers. They then see that more doe are taken during gun season then during bow. They then thought bow is the longest season and takes the least amount of doe lets see if we can get more doe taken during bow season and see if that changes anything. Maybe they did Maybe they didnt but the conclusion was that the way to up the doe take during bow season was to put in a doe only period. Why should they have to specifacly say we want mor doe killed during bow season when the 2 week doe only season should say that with out words. If you tell your boss you want more money do you have to tell him it needs to go in your check or do you just assume he knows you want it in your check? Or should he give more money to another emploey and say I didnt know where you wanted the money to go so that is what I did with it?

All this may be speculation yet it is more logical then screaming they are attacking bow hunting or they are trying to do away with bow hunting, or that they want bow hunters to handle all the population controll which is waht you and many others are yelling. That is compleat speculation on your part. No where did anyone say (DEC included that bow hunters need to do all the population controll. No where did anyone ( again even the dec) say that they wanted to do away with bow hunting. How ever the bow hunters are saying loud and clear that what the dec is trying will not work and that bow hunters will make sure it does not work. Why not shoot the does during bow season and then when they come up with the same number of dead doe for the year you can say see we were right same number were killed they just got spread out . Then you could honestly say they were wrong and you were right.

Grow, You keep saying the Dec is black maleing you into shooting does yet your first paragraph is saying you would be fine with acyuall blackmale is it not. I mean you are saying you would be fine with them telling you shoot a doe or you can not have a buck tag. Or did I read that wrong? saying shoot a doe or no buck is more blackmale then 2 weeks doe only then have at it with a buck weather you got a doe or not.

I do have a question I can not come up with an answer for. It has been said in here many times that early oct is too warm to shoot does yet bucks would still be shot. My question is does warm weather affect a dead doe more so then it affect a dead buck? I ask this only because when someone says ( which a lot have) I do not shoot doe in early bow because it is to warm so that is why I shoot bucks I can not figure out how warm temps would affect one more then another.

What isn't speculation is that if I fill them I. That bow I don't have them to use in gun. It isn't increasing anything other than their ill thought percentages

[A Sportsman]

Stubby, the reason I would shoot a big buck in early October warm weather, but may pass on a doe in the same situation is because I will be more willing to deal with the inconvenience of the kill if it's a nice buck. In other words shooting a big buck gives me more sense of accomplishment than shooting a doe. Since you posed this question I take it that you do not share the same view. That's fine. We all don't have to hunt for the same reasons and with the same motives.

As a bow inter and rifle hunter the season is long. If I don't want to deal with a doe in the early heat of October, it's a nice luxury to have.