Get your vaseline ready NY! Its here...

[The_Real_TCIII]

Frankly, as Phade was suggesting earlier, DEC has created a system to its benefit that puts the BHs in a catch 22. Either will kill and report more doe in the first two weeks allowing DEC to say "see our plan is working" and continuing it. Or, we don't kill and report more doe in the first 2 weeks allowing DEC to say "see BHs can't get it done" and we now need to go to more extreme measure by allowing guns or MLs in early season. No way for BHs to win under these circumstances. DEC has put themselves in a great position to do what they want in these "overpopulated" areas for the foreseeable future without risk of clear objective criticism. Couple that with undefined goals and DEC can justify whatever they choose with regard to altering bow seasons. Great political maneuvering but bad management if they want true results on reducing doe populations now.

if we fail then next year they can make the gun season doe only for the first weekend, see how that goes over.

[dbHunterNY]

What expense? It is an automated system and the retailers issue the tags. If you are actually talking about the cost of the paper I can't imagine there is anything there of significance.

 

and as far as the energy going to the surviving does.....who cares if there is such a "critical need" to reduce the population in these areas? so they don't fawn well. so they don't winter well. The goal is DEAD right? major catastrophe if we don't reduce numbers based on what they are saying. so what would this matter. You can't apply QDM logic or justification to this half a$$ed process

 

not talking about the cost of the paper.  ponder.

 

in my mind it can't be justified as the right solution.  I do hunt a WMU that's effected.  I've said multiple times what I think they should've done, which still would leave where I hunt screwed, because it's bow only.  there had to be some reasoning DEC picked first part of early and entire late seasons.  the reasons I gave and the simple idea they think hunters are capable of taking more then could be some.  maybe they want hunters to capitalize on the first opportunities hunters get.  there's a lot of hunters out there that pass on opportunity, then opportunity dries up, and they never fill the doe tag.  Dead is dead but dead later is no guarantee.  major catastrophe to DEC apparently isn't going to take hold for another year or more because you're still not toting a muzzleloader during early season this year.  last you just told me you can't apply simple concepts of quality deer management when we're in fact talking about deer management! really?!  well I guess we're screwed with this half a**** process indefinitely then.

[moog5050]

if we fail then next year they can make the gun season doe only for the first weekend, see how that goes over.

 

I agree that is a logical solution and would have been this time around.  We have discussed ad nauseam why it makes no sense to use a smaller group hunting with less productive weapons to reduce population.

 

Trust me, your idea won't happen because that would be a bad political move.  Much easier to upset the smaller group of BHs than the much larger group of gun hunters.  Politics 101 - if you need to upset a group, make it a small group or less vocal group.  In fact, by opening an early gun season, the cheers of the gun only hunters will drown out any outcry by the BHs.  I bet that this was all considered well in advance of the strategy employed.  Plus, since most BHs are also gun hunters, the simple response is stop complaining, grab your gun and go hunt.

[dbHunterNY]

Seems like they are all wintering just fine if the area is overpopulated. The bucks around me are packing plenty of headger, actually some of the largest, on average, in the state. The theory he gave is logical, doesnt hold water in the areas they carved out. Its all about population.

 

oh it holds water in those regions too.  i'll give you not as much as other areas though.  wasn't the intent to mean it trumps the need to reduce the population.

[dbHunterNY]

I agree that is a logical solution and would have been this time around.  We have discussed ad nauseam why it makes no sense to use a smaller group hunting with less productive weapons to reduce population.

 

Trust me, your idea won't happen because that would be a bad political move.  Much easier to upset the smaller group of BHs than the much larger group of gun hunters.  Politics 101 - if you need to upset a group, make it a small group or less vocal group.  In fact, by opening an early gun season, the cheers of the gun only hunters will drown out any outcry by the BHs.  I bet that this was all considered well in advance of the strategy employed.  Plus, since most BHs are also gun hunters, the simple response is stop complaining, grab your gun and go hunt.

 

yes.... there's no personal vendetta against bowhunters.

[Black Bellamy]

I'm in in the east, so basically nothing changes for me, but it sucks for some other areas. For instance at Sterling Forest you will see the big 12 pointer and you can't shoot it during bow or MZ season... it blows. In western NY they basically declared war on does, I guess you have too many deer...

 

Sterling Forest is almost completely in 3P.  No change, no antler restrictions, no does-only.   I thought I'd be hunting the Newark Watershed in NJ this year but no.

[Five Seasons]

Frankly, as Phade was suggesting earlier, DEC has created a system to its benefit that puts the BHs in a catch 22.  Either will kill and report more doe in the first two weeks allowing DEC to say "see our plan is working" and continuing it.  Or, we don't kill and report more doe in the first 2 weeks allowing DEC to say "see BHs can't get it done" and we now need to go to more extreme measure by allowing guns or MLs in early season.  No way for BHs to win under these circumstances.   DEC has put themselves in a great position to do what they want in these "overpopulated" areas for the foreseeable future without risk of clear objective criticism.  Couple that with undefined goals and DEC can justify whatever they choose with regard to altering bow seasons.  Great political maneuvering but bad management if they want true results on reducing doe populations now.

 

bingo. we all lose.

[growalot]

Nope ...I'm not going to loose...I'm adjusting and By all the Gods one can name. I will have a good time ...knowing I can shoot whatever I want legally if I get the chance and yes...I'll proudly fly my one finger flag at the twits in Albany that put all this into play as I enjoy a whole new hunting area....

Edited August 13, 2015 by growalot

[phade]

Grow...the new Katniss Everdeen.

[growalot]

lol...I wish...

[WNYBuckHunter]

if we fail then next year they can make the gun season doe only for the first weekend, see how that goes over.

 

It would go over like a fart in church

[The_Real_TCIII]

It would go over like a fart in church

Sure would. They'd get more does shot the first hour than this current plan though but they'd never mess with the regular season

[WNYBuckHunter]

Sure would. They'd get more does shot the first hour than this current plan though but they'd never mess with the regular season

 

Yep, cant mess with the gun hunters' chances to kill a buck.

 

 

Its fine for bow hunters though.

[DirtTime]

How many people in this thread that are irritated with the changes hunt with a rifle or shotgun or ML as well as a bow?

Edited August 14, 2015 by ....rob

[WNYBuckHunter]

I hunt with all of them.

[DirtTime]

I hunt with all of them.

So, you are a hunter of all seasons? So you have appx 2 months to get that big buck. 

[DirtTime]

Here's the deal, whats done is done!

But here's an example of what passionate people do to get goals achieved:

 

http://huntingny.com/forums/topic/28610-time-to-get-serious-about-doves/?hl=%2Bdove+%2Bhunting

 

 

You wont get the job done arguing in here.

 

[fasteddie]

I'm okay . I have from Oct 1 - Dec 22 to take deer . I have been retired since 1998 and work part time a couple days a week .

Any doe in the freezer is fine .

[Mossberg500Guy]

I only hunt with a shotgun and would be fine with with antlerless only, though i prefer that everyone gets to choose what deer they would like to kill sense we bought the license, hopefully they rotate the antlerless only in different regions and seasons or get rid of it all together, maybe put a buck tag draw like the DMPs and make the doe the primary tag, i also thought that maybe you could buy 3 standard tags (buck and 2 dmps) and they would be for all seasons (Bow early/late, ML/Crossbow early/late and Regular Gun season)

So say if you take a buck in Bow season you can't kill one in MZ or Regular season same for the dmps pertaining to the Management Unit, or say if you were unsuccessful in bow the 3 tags would roll over to your next season ML early/late, Regular, Bow early/late depending on what license you have or mutiple, if you're successful in ML that tag you filled is discarded for regular and if you're unsuccessful it rolls over to the next season and so on, this would limit hunters to only 3 tags. Hope i explained it well for you to understand

Edited August 14, 2015 by Mossberg500Guy

[Doc]

I'm okay . I have from Oct 1 - Dec 22 to take deer . I have been retired since 1998 and work part time a couple days a week .

Any doe in the freezer is fine .

Eddie- It's not whether I can get a doe or even a buck that has me upset. It is simply the stupidity of the change, and the fact that the DEC seems to be going out of their way to single out bowhunters with the responsibility of maintaining deer population management (or else!). Their current attitudes toward bowhunters indicates that they really have a problem with bowhunters occupying some premium season time and intend to change that situation, which of course cannot bode well for anyone who enjoys the change of pace that bowhunting provides. I too have a pile of days to fill the freezer, but still the shoddy treatment and strong-arm tactics being used on bowhunters is pretty irritating to me. And so, I am not ok with it.

[Doc]

...... hopefully they rotate the antlerless only in different regions and seasons or get rid of it all together, maybe put a buck tag draw like the DMPs and make the doe the primary tag, i also thought that maybe you could buy 3 standard tags (buck and 2 dmps) and they would be for all seasons (Bow early/late, ML/Crossbow early/late and Regular Gun season).......

Unfortunately, that is not the way the plan is actually laid out. When the bowhunters are unable to make the secret goals of the DEC, they will take that opportunity to insert a muzzleloader season into bow season. That is likely the goal since about  decade ago, they tried to do that. This likely is their backdoor route to get what they wanted. Apparently we are not supposed to be smart enough to spot that.

[Doc]

So now an already faulty harvest reporting system will be made even more unreliable as bowhunters turn in all kinds of doe take successes that never really happened, just to satisfy the DEC's secret bowhunter harvest goals.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

So now an already faulty harvest reporting system will be made even more unreliable as bowhunters turn in all kinds of doe take successes that never really happened, just to satisfy the DEC's secret bowhunter harvest goals.

Yup. Imagine how many does get reported in these areas in the last day of the late bow/ML season. Lol.

[WesternNY]

The special early ML will happen.  Current changes (phase 2) for 2 years, then the early ML  see p9 at the bottom

 

 

 

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/deerplan2012.pdf

Edited August 14, 2015 by WesternNY

[The_Field_Ager]

 cannot bode well for anyone who enjoys the change of pace that bowhunting provides.

 

 

Which of course is the whole point for me. There is no way I will go afield with a bow if the countryside is ringing out with gunfire. Bow only works if there is a quite pre-gun period. I would be OK with a shorter bow season if it came down to it, but that is an entirely different proposition.  Bow and accessory manufactures will be pissed I imagine, if Bow season is effectively snuffed out.