Hunting Public and private land

[Buckmaster7600]

My family and I own about 400acres and I am basically the only one that hunts it and I have only shot 1 deer on our land in the last 3 years in those the years I have killed 8 deer on public land. Does anyone else that owns land hunt mostly public land as well? I spend hundreds of dollars every year on food plots and see a lot of deer but rarely shoot any at home. I am the first to admit that I am way more "picky" on my land than I am on state land. Anyone else do something similar to this?

[shawnhu]

I also hunt mostly public land as well.... Actually, that's all I hunt since I don't have access to private, lol.

But I get it, public land is not "maintained" and you kind of take what you can get. Back at home, you feel like what you let walk will stick around for the next year, hoping to be able to manage a local herd for quality. 400 acres could hold quite some deer.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[Doc]

I also have a mix of public and my own private land. Sometimes it helps to have the public land hunters to move some deer for you ..... That is if you can get them off their lazy butts and moving a few deer around (that is not guaranteed).

[hunter49]

   That's the problem now days, everyone sits in trees or ground blinds & no one is moving the deer. Years ago we would sit 2-3 hours the first day then after that we would put drives on the rest of the season. We would always move, see ,& everyone would get deer.

[growalot]

I have lots of public land near by...but with the private lands I have to hunt...I think it is unfair,for me personally, to encroach on lands other not as "blessed" as me have to hunt..seems greedy for me.

[RoadKill44]

A couple questions come to mind.

You say 400 acres. How much of that is wooded? Maybe more important is how much is wooded/field fringes?

You say the only one that hunts. Are posted signs involved? there

You say food plots. What other food is available? Are there any acorns, apples, croplands or low forage brush?

Cover: Are there brush lots? Do you practice hinge cutting at all?

I know these are all questions but your answer may be in the above answers.

 

This site has introduced me to hinge cutting options which I will be starting this year. The list of possible solutions is huge. Only you know what you have and you may need to find out more about what deer like and need. Huntingny.com has been a good place for me. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable hunters here. Although sometimes you got to dig through a lot of crap to find gold.

[Buckmaster7600]

A couple questions come to mind.

You say 400 acres. How much of that is wooded? Maybe more important is how much is wooded/field fringes?

You say the only one that hunts. Are posted signs involved? there

You say food plots. What other food is available? Are there any acorns, apples, croplands or low forage brush?

Cover: Are there brush lots? Do you practice hinge cutting at all?

I know these are all questions but your answer may be in the above answers.

This site has introduced me to hinge cutting options which I will be starting this year. The list of possible solutions is huge. Only you know what you have and you may need to find out more about what deer like and need. Huntingny.com has been a good place for me. There seems to be a lot of knowledgeable hunters here. Although sometimes you got to dig through a lot of crap to find gold.

A little over 180 acres of field

Yes it's heavily posted!

80 acres of corn, 25 can't be picked until after season other than 4 or 5 small plots the rest is hay fields with clover and alpha.

There is a lot of white and red oak also some apples

There is 2 swamps that I don't touch at all one is about 20 acres the other is about 15 both very thick and they are the "sanctuaries"

It's not a lack of deer I see a ton of deer at home but I have a camp in the ADK's and that's where I spend most of my season. I love hunting big woods.

[RoadKill44]

A disclaimer start: I'm not and expert just a hunter of 55 years. But there are others on this sight that might be able to chime in and help out.

It sounds like you have an ideal farm area that could be good mix deer habitat. Doing the math there is 320 acres of woodland with water nearby in two swamp areas. There are two things that come to my mind immediately. 1) Lack of hunting pressure when you are there. 2) There can still be a food problem.

 

Nearly everyone is hunting the first two days of hunting season. Pressure is high and nearly 20% of all deer taken are on those two days. By the time you get back your best option might be to "Still Hunt".  Deer are active at dusk and dawn just beyond the legal sunrise/sunset times. with your land posted up and no other hunters around a tree stand over a plot or even an illegal bait pile, is bound to be fruitless after the first week. Your other option is to get some buddies and family to hunt the same days. Even then half of the hunters should be walking around "Still Hunting" or driving. A single 120 acre woodlot could be easily hunted by four people. that would help but without pressure on neighboring property it could still be a bust.

 

As far as food problems go, I'm just becoming aware of that topic myself. Good deer habitat requires more than cover and local farm fields and food plots. Deer need a lot of low brush and leaves to feed on. For me hinge cutting may be the answer. Not being qualified to even suggest methods, I can only point you to the links I've found.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chEPUV0V2yw

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofow0-VUDuE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_fPWzsHtC8

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Cory]

My land borders state land so the first weekend I spend more time kicking trespassers off my land than hunting. Although I did venture over on state land this year because I just wasn't seeing anything and I found probaby the most gorgeous piece of land. 4 hills come together and open to a meadow it reminded me of hunting out west. Didn't see anything but sometimes you don't mind when the scenery is that amazing.

[Buckmaster7600]

A disclaimer start: I'm not and expert just a hunter of 55 years. But there are others on this sight that might be able to chime in and help out.

It sounds like you have an ideal farm area that could be good mix deer habitat. Doing the math there is 320 acres of woodland with water nearby in two swamp areas. There are two things that come to my mind immediately. 1) Lack of hunting pressure when you are there. 2) There can still be a food problem.

Nearly everyone is hunting the first two days of hunting season. Pressure is high and nearly 20% of all deer taken are on those two days. By the time you get back your best option might be to "Still Hunt". Deer are active at dusk and dawn just beyond the legal sunrise/sunset times. with your land posted up and no other hunters around a tree stand over a plot or even an illegal bait pile, is bound to be fruitless after the first week. Your other option is to get some buddies and family to hunt the same days. Even then half of the hunters should be walking around "Still Hunting" or driving. A single 120 acre woodlot could be easily hunted by four people. that would help but without pressure on neighboring property it could still be a bust.

As far as food problems go, I'm just becoming aware of that topic myself. Good deer habitat requires more than cover and local farm fields and food plots. Deer need a lot of low brush and leaves to feed on. For me hinge cutting may be the answer. Not being qualified to even suggest methods, I can only point you to the links I've found.

I live in NZ so our hunting pressure is much different than you are describing, in the middle of November after nearly a month of gun season it is normal for deer to be feeding in one of my fields during mid day and early after noon.

Our land holds a lot of deer with a really good buck to die ratio and some decent bucks but it has never held a "big" one a lot of 110"-120" but nothing bigger never even on camera in the last 10 years. That is one of the reasons I don't spend much time hunting it is because it's hard to get excited about it when I have 20000 acres of ?'s up at my camp.

[shawnhu]

I live in NZ so our hunting pressure is much different than you are describing, in the middle of November after nearly a month of gun season it is normal for deer to be feeding in one of my fields during mid day and early after noon.

Our land holds a lot of deer with a really good buck to die ratio and some decent bucks but it has never held a "big" one a lot of 110"-120" but nothing bigger never even on camera in the last 10 years. That is one of the reasons I don't spend much time hunting it is because it's hard to get excited about it when I have 20000 acres of ?'s up at my camp.

I think I figured out your problem. You're clearly overpopulated and the deer are competing for food, stunting all of them. I could enlist my services to help you with that problem, I'll even do it for free.

X-Calibur Lighting Systems

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[The_Real_TCIII]

I had such a great spot on public until this year, the adjacent property was leased by some new guys and they've taken over. That's the way it goes I'll have to find another. It's also where they found that body

[Four Season Whitetail's]

My family and I own about 400acres and I am basically the only one that hunts it and I have only shot 1 deer on our land in the last 3 years in those the years I have killed 8 deer on public land. Does anyone else that owns land hunt mostly public land as well? I spend hundreds of dollars every year on food plots and see a lot of deer but rarely shoot any at home. I am the first to admit that I am way more "picky" on my land than I am on state land. Anyone else do something similar to this?

Just shy of 800 acres up here and i spend most of my season down on Letchworth. I am just as picky on both properties and i find the big racked mature deer i seek on the park year in and year out. 

[Northsox65]

In my Opinion, if you have that much land with food, thicket, and swamps and your not killing deer its something that you are doing wrong, either you are putting your stand in the wrong place or your hunting clothes are giving off an odor.

[Buckmaster7600]

In my Opinion, if you have that much land with food, thicket, and swamps and your not killing deer its something that you are doing wrong, either you are putting your stand in the wrong place or your hunting clothes are giving off an odor.

It's not that I'm not killing deer, I passed on 11 different bucks at home this year. I'm not seeing deer I want to kill.

[dbHunterNY]

It's not that I'm not killing deer, I passed on 11 different bucks at home this year. I'm not seeing deer I want to kill.

 

just curious, because my immediate family has a farm of similar size.  do your neighbors take any doe?  bucks in the area seem to get shot or shot at some how.  in my experience even with that kind of habitat and acreage it's work to get 3:1 doe to buck ratio.  surprising just how many doe you need to take or how many bucks you need to pass to get that.  our doe to buck ratio has been a good 5:1.  past few years we've taken more doe and passed more bucks so it's probably better but probably not even 3:1 yet from what I've seen.  before only a couple doe would get taken each season if that.  with the amount of deer sights everyone is comfortable with i don't think we could get better.  otherwise to do so we'd really hammer the doe and sightings would go down.  doesn't hunt as big as it is either with larger hay fields.

[Buckmaster7600]

They shoot some does I haven't seen enough does to warrant shooting them. Not that there isn't enough to shoot I just don't need to shoot them. I would guess I'm somewhere around 3-1 doe to buck ration from what I have seen and cameras

[gjs4]

Not all land is created equal regardless of who owns it.

As others have stated you're lacking something on your ground. Your comment on spending "hundreds" has me thinking its agriculture and good soil. Soil fertility is a big key in larger racks.

If your ground offered all they needed you could retain some on a consistent basis to reach maturity ... And age is what ny deer lack most.

Nothing the matter with state.

The key to any deer property is knowing it.... Scout more and hut less and surely you'll be closer to your goal.

Good luck.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[RoadKill44]

I may be opening my mouth where I shouldn’t but, judging from many of your statements your property may be at or beyond carrying capacity for the deer you have.

 

Here is what you’ve written:

My family and I own about 400 acres.

Our land holds a lot of deer with a really good buck to doe ratio.

I would guess I'm somewhere around 3-1 doe to buck ratio.

It's not a lack of deer I see a ton of deer at home.

Some are decent bucks but it has never held a "big" one.

a lot of 110"-120" but nothing bigger.

 

I’ve read where deer at carrying capacity will start to suffer. Doe will be small, fawns will be few and bucks will not develop those big racks you are looking for.

Other signs are seen in the habitat. When down on one knee, can you see for long distances in the woodlands. No abundance of browse at the 1 to 4 foot level.

 

More of your words:

It's not that I'm not killing deer, I'm not seeing deer I want to kill.

I see a lot of deer but rarely shoot any at home.

I passed on 11 different bucks at home this year.

I have only shot 1 deer on our land in the last 3 years.

I am the first to admit that I am way more "picky"

 

I’ve read where deer populations grow each spring by 40% to 60%. That means conditions will get worse unless the population is reduced by an equal amount. Weaker doe drop few fawns and during hard times fawns suffer more than the adult deer. Runt fawn bucks don’t develop those big racks when they do mature.

 

Being a meat hunter I would suggest “Start shooting man”. LOL At least treat this as food for thought. If I were a hunter for big Racks I’d look into it. I think there are a few experts (deer biologists) out there. Maybe the local DEC could help you.

 

Here is a link. It wasn’t the one I was looking for but it’s a start.

http://www.buckmanager.com/2013/07/16/determining-carrying-capacity-for-deer-management/

 

[Buckmaster7600]

You guys are bringing up good points but our populations are not too high, all of my neighbors keep the populations well within check! I'm far from an expert but the last buck I shot was 4 1/2 and weighed 216 dressed but was only a 6 that might have scored 70" the biggest problem I have with our herd is 8 weeks of gun season! I let a lot of 100" bucks go to get shot on one of the neighbors.

[RoadKill44]

It seems then that you have made the choice to hunt as you do. There are many others doing the same thing and I would be the last to say it's wrong. For me it would be a tough hunting method to adhere to, passing up on a 6 or 8 point hoping to fill the tag with a monster. However, if and when you achieve your goals, you'll be able to snap your suspenders with a little more pride than the rest of us. That's why they call it a sport. I applaud you.

 

Doing the math 11 different bucks at a 3 doe to 1 buck ratio is an estimated 44 deer. 44 deer on 400 acres amounts to 70 deer per square mile. I'm no expert either but, those numbers scream "sanctuary" and overpopulation. Big bucks, little racks - ditto. What are your fawn drop and fawn survival numbers. Are you seeing any triplets in the early spring? or are they mostly single births? How big are your doe groups during hunting season?

 

Doe will remain within a mile of their birth location. Buck on the other hand will range out four or five miles from their birth location. So it is vary much the possibility that your neighbors are dropping those bucks you pass up.

 

I'm just learning about this stuff myself, hence the claim of not being an expert. I've just been doing a lot of research and reading over the last year or so. Maybe my mind is just geared to see problems where they don't exist. But this surely matches what I've read.

[dbHunterNY]

most people look at and define carrying capacity differently.  some more like Buckmaster7600 look at it as deer can be sustained and I'm not seeing winter kill or malnourished deer with ribs showing during the winter.  deer are in good health but signs of stunted growth is apparent.  others like forest interested folk consider all is good when various plant species aren't getting over browsed and have successional growth for each every year.  those wanting bigger racked or heavier deer want supplemental food sources (feeders or in NY's case food plots with high energy food throughout winter), in addition to successional growth to hold and feed deer throughout the year.  Bucks and doe meet spring with less energy needed to get back up to optimum weight from winter, so more energy goes into racks and fawns.

 

it's all relative I think.  however, if you were to ask me what I truly think carrying capacity is I'd say the middle one.  so as long as you have successional growth and a species of browse deer take to isn't getting or did get wiped out then you're within the carrying capacity of the habitat.  I work toward the last one though to give the deer the best nutrition.  I like antlers and more importantly I like respectively big heavy deer to fill my freezer.

 

[kpkot]

I don't think the OP is truly looking for solutions... I think he's just asking how many people hunt both public and private. I only hunt private. Closest to public I get is a shooting club I belong to, that has decent hunting too.

[RoadKill44]

I don't think the OP is truly looking for solutions... I think he's just asking how many people hunt both public and private. I only hunt private. Closest to public I get is a shooting club I belong to, that has decent hunting too.

Well then to answer that end of the topic, I've primarily hunted big woods for 56 years. It is private land but up until the 80's there was 400 to 500 acres of solid woodland. The key word is was. Gradually strings of posted signs appeared blocking off portion after portion until now we are limited to 100 acres. All is still big woods but not as public as it used to be. Yet it survives and supports eight hunters out of our cabin. We get five to ten deer each year on average. We often talk of our record year (1989) when ten guys harvested 16 deer. We had five buck hanging the first day.

 

The most enjoyable part for me is the first week of deer hunting out of the cabin. 6 to 10 guys waking up to venison and pancakes, spending the days in the woods and exchanging stories in the evening.

 

I've just gotten into hunting suburban backyards which presents a whole new challenge. This is definitely private land on a small scale. Here I'm on my own but the number of deer seen and the challenge keeps me going back. Compared to big woods this is no woods.

Edited January 27, 2016 by RoadKill44

[Buckmaster7600]

I don't think the OP is truly looking for solutions... I think he's just asking how many people hunt both public and private. I only hunt private. Closest to public I get is a shooting club I belong to, that has decent hunting too.

That was my original intent but I have gotten some good ideas too.

My biggest reason for not shooting many deer on my land is that I love hunting the Adirondacks. I might have hunted on my land 5-7 times all year and I took 7 weeks off from work. I don't enjoy sitting in tree stands or blinds and and I dont still hunt my land unless we have fresh snow.

As far as food wise I have a lot of standing corn that hasn't been touched apples still on the ground acorns that are still on the ground. I'm sure I could do more but I surely think the herd is very well fed.

Like I said before in my area of NZ where there is not big woods it's hard to get any age on a deer 8 weeks of avoiding someone with a gun is a long time for a buck that wants to find a hot doe. I used to put a lot more time into food plots and other things but I have found that 400 acres is not enough to hold a buck during the rut. Most of the nice bucks I have killed on my land were during the first 2 weeks of bow season when they were patternable.