Coyote Bounty in PA.

[grampy]

Having never hunted coyotes, nor never knowing anyone who has, what does one do with a coyote after killing one?

 

Dog.....Food.....

 

Yipp....yodels

 

Howl....hash

 

Bark....biscuits

 

And I'm tanning some pelts to make winter and ice fishing hats.

[PREDATE]

Since we are talking about PA here I just want to point out that PA has had a year round season on coyotes for years and still can't relax. So I say it is a waste.

[nyantler]

The issue here isn't really whether or not deer are on the menu for coyotes... that goes without saying... The issue is how much of an impact they have on overall populations of deer in general in natural habitats across the state. I'm sure there are exceptions in habitats where, lets say, humans have introduced penned food sources like, chickens, goats, sheep, fallow deer and the like that have not got the ability to escape coyote predation in a natural way... but are relatively easy prey for the coyotes... like sardines in a can. This would establish an easily obtained food source and put larger prey at the top of the menu for coyotes in that habitat. This is not necessarily a result of huge coyote populations, but rather the result of humans introducing an abundant, easily obtainable, food source. A problem created by humans not an over abundance of coyotes. These are situations that have little to do with the DEC and conservation and probably can't be kept in check with simple predator control methods like hunting regulations.

[Uptown Redneck]

Dog.....Food.....

 

Yipp....yodels

 

Howl....hash

 

Bark....biscuits

 

And I'm tanning some pelts to make winter and ice fishing hats.

Expect for the tanning part the rest of your reply does nothing to answer my question

[Curmudgeon]

Please don't take my suggestion and twist them around, I understand your frustration on this subject, but to misdirect your anger towards me, is probably unjustified. No anger on this end.

Marksmanship - clay pigeons fly, coyotes don't, not from the studies that I've read. You may have read a different study than I have. With the possible introduction of coyote hunting all year, I would imagine that SOME hunters would hit the range more often, sight in their varmint/small game rifles/shotguns/bows and prepare themselves for hunting coyotes, just like any other game that would be deserving of a clean, ethical kill. Not like the way you make it out to be, shooting clay pigeons. Maybe I misread your intent. At best it was ambiguous.

Divisions amongst hunters - I've yet to meet a hunter on the field that didn't want to shoot a coyote, anytime, anywhere it's legal. It's no secret that many hunters in NYS prioritize deer over most other game, including coyote. That's why you see many more coyote harvests in NYS after deer season has ended. If coyote season was opened to year round, I don't see this division of hunters you speak of, I could only see more engaged hunters, higher hunter retention in NYS, and additional hunter recruitment from young hunters. These are all positive things IMO. Most of the hunters I associate with will not shoot a coyote - during deer season, or any other time. My nephew came in from hunting with a bunch of photos of one on his phone. Hardly a year goes by without someone hunting on my property seeing a coyote during deer season, often in range. None have been shot, or even shot at. There is no shortage of deer. Basic rule I grew up with, shoot it, eat it.

Strong resistance from antis - well, what can I say, antis will be antis. They resist hunting of deer too, are we going to stop that as well? No point in giving them ammunition, especially if there is no real benefit. The only benefit is to assuage the emotions of people who believe the myths.

Deteriorating support for hunting among non-hunters - so you are saying that non-hunters support hunters more if we don't hunt coyotes? According to the commentary I cited, the highest levels of support are animals harvested for food. It goes downhill from there.

 

Playing into the fear that non-hunters will support hunters less is the same as letting the antis dictate what we should, or shouldn't do to continue the hunting tradition that has been passed down from generation to generation. If a non-hunter feels that by opening the coyote season to a year-long season offends him, but recruits 2 new hunters because it's easier to introduce a young hunter in the warmer weather vs cold, or keeps a hunter engaged by having to look forward to a year-long hunting season, I think that's a win. Ignoring the image of hunters among non-hunters is foolish.

Respect for the animal - I don't think the animal feels more or less disrespected if it's killed during the winter, spring, fall, or summer. And, what about its young that starve? What about gravid females being run by hounds? Breeding season should remain off limits, always.

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[grampy]

Expect for the tanning part the rest of your reply does nothing to answer my question

 

The first part was an attempt at humor. 

 

The second part is where I attempted to answer your question.

[Uptown Redneck]

The first part was an attempt at humor. 

 

The second part is where I attempted to answer your question.

ok I get it. so only the hide is used

[Curmudgeon]

The issue here isn't really whether or not deer are on the menu for coyotes... that goes without saying... The issue is how much of an impact they have on overall populations of deer in general in natural habitats across the state.

 

But is this the reason for the bounty proposal? Yeah for some but according to the NYON article on the PA legislation "Most complaints (about coyotes) were related to a general fear of the animals, not because of a threat."

 

[grampy]

ok I get it. so only the hide is used

 

For me, yes.  We also de-bone the tail and salt them. Some are used for a tail board with the weathered plank from the original homestead, from the property.  And some, I'm using,  to make smallmouth jigs for fishing.  If you are wondering weather or not I eat them? NO WAY!

[nyantler]

But is this the reason for the bounty proposal? Yeah for some but according to the NYON article on the PA legislation "Most complaints (about coyotes) were related to a general fear of the animals, not because of a threat."

I'm don't know what's going on with the PA coyotes, but coyotes in general are not known to be a threat to humans on any consistent basis. However, it's not hard to understand how things can get blown out of proportion based on misconceptions created due to the rampant hatred perpetuated by those that don't understand coyote behavior. Not sure how a bounty will quell that hatred or fear. Not sure it will do anything other than cost the tax payers money.

Edited January 22, 2016 by nyantler

[Doc]

So, are we saying that PA. Department of Natural Resources does not understand coyote management and frankly are incapable of reading scientific papers, studies and research. After all, this is a DNR backed idea. I really don't know. I don't have any dealings with them, so I am just asking. If bounties don't work, one would think that they would not be proposing such a thing. If killing coyotes does in fact make more of them pop up, why do you think the PA. DNR has never come across that info. Or is it possible that they have actually found contrary studies that debunked that notion. Again, I am just asking if these guys are simply inept, or might they have better sources of coyote management data and research than we do.

 

 

[Doc]

Another observation is the fact that the coyote in eastern parts of the country are for all practical purposes at the top of their food chain. So am I hearing that a species with no predators other than automobiles and disease should simply be allowed to multiply totally unchecked? I'm not sure just when or if the "bounty card" should be played, but it does appear that hunters and trappers are not really doing much of a job on them in some parts of the state.

 

I'm guessing that the PA. DNR is feeling like there is a lacking of motivation to hunt coyotes. If they are correct, extending the season to year around probably won't have much of an impact. I really do not know what the answer is. I guess that's why I asked the question.

[Curmudgeon]

I suspect the PA DNR is responding to the emotional reactions coyotes bring out in people. Hunters and fishers are the original constituency of game departments - whatever they are now called. They respond to them in ways they don't respond to other constituencies.

 

I have no evidence for this feeling. It would just seem to be consistent with how things have worked for decades.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Curmudgeon

[nyantler]

So, are we saying that PA. Department of Natural Resources does not understand coyote management and frankly are incapable of reading scientific papers, studies and research. After all, this is a DNR backed idea. I really don't know. I don't have any dealings with them, so I am just asking. If bounties don't work, one would think that they would not be proposing such a thing. If killing coyotes does in fact make more of them pop up, why do you think the PA. DNR has never come across that info. Or is it possible that they have actually found contrary studies that debunked that notion. Again, I am just asking if these guys are simply inept, or might they have better sources of coyote management data and research than we do.

My only question would be "How much more coyote hunting do they expect with the introduction of a bounty?"... It would certainly be a waste of tax payer money if it doesn't solve whatever problem it is they are trying to solve. I have been looking for coyote population numbers for PA and haven't come up with anything yet... you would think there would have been concerns long before now if the problem was big enough. I can't find anything on the subject that tells much.

[Doc]

I suspect the PA DNR is responding to the emotional reactions coyotes bring out in people. Hunters and fishers are the original constituency of game departments - whatever they are now called. They respond to them in ways they don't respond to other constituencies.

 

I have no evidence for this feeling. It would just seem to be consistent with how things have worked for decades.

I would agree if it wasn't an idea that so many apparently feel can be refuted so easily. I'm not sure I really buy that thought. As was pointed out, there is a public aspect to all of this that I'm sure the DNR wouldn't really want to find themselves in the middle of unless they thought they could back up their position. And as far as them being driven by hunters, that I not the impression I get after hearing all the years of outcry over their severe attack on the deer herd down there. I get the impression that they are determined to do what they think is the right thing (as they see it) regardless of how it plays among the hunters. No, I think this is genuinely supported by whatever coyote management  research they could dredge up. If we say they are all screwed up about this idea, then we have to put the blame where the buck stops. This is not something that can easily be blamed on hunters.

[nyantler]

Another observation is the fact that the coyote in eastern parts of the country are for all practical purposes at the top of their food chain. So am I hearing that a species with no predators other than automobiles and disease should simply be allowed to multiply totally unchecked? I'm not sure just when or if the "bounty card" should be played, but it does appear that hunters and trappers are not really doing much of a job on them in some parts of the state.

 

I'm guessing that the PA. DNR is feeling like there is a lacking of motivation to hunt coyotes. If they are correct, extending the season to year around probably won't have much of an impact. I really do not know what the answer is. I guess that's why I asked the question.

I would assume that if the coyote fear in PA is as bad as what we hear from NY hunters... motivation isn't really the problem. Coyote hunting is not easy. Maybe participation in coyote hunting has more to do with the effort that has to be put in to kill coyotes on a large scale... I'm not sure most hunters want to put in the hours a good coyote hunt might take, possibly under adverse weather conditions... not everyone can afford dogs to run them or can give up the time it takes to setup, call and wait for coyotes to show. The hunters that are extremely good at it are probably already out there doing it. A year round season for those that are already interested in hunting coyotes is probably a better answer. It's possible I guess that a bounty for those hunters might entice them to spend more time in the field doing what they already enjoy. But, whether or not it will be enough to solve the PA problem is still a guess at best.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

You are just as likely to get good information on coyotes on huntingny.com as you are to get good information on Muslims.

I would much rather get my info from a hunting site by a guy that lives,hunts and deals with real life problems then by a book smart guy that does not even hunt coyotes so is pretty much clueless.

 

We can only hope that some day you walk out your door and find a dozen of your sheep killed without even being ate on like my neighbor did a couple years back.

 

Maybe the state of Pa has enough hunter info and facts that these so called long term coyote studies now hold very little water and are willing to do something about the problem. To say you cant wipe them out because they just breed back is years apart. Running dogs,Trapping, Shooting during deer season,Shooting during Turkey season and a couple other treats in different areas and you will put a damper on them that they all but disappear for a couple years and that will do amazing things to the desired wildlife in the area.

 

I am also sure that they have problem areas in their state as we do here. They will live in numbers where the living is the best.

[BizCT]

I always wanted to shoot a color phase yote

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[SteveB]

Quote: "I've yet to meet a hunter on the field that didn't want to shoot a coyote, anytime, anywhere it's legal."

And yet 99.9% of hunters will only shoot one as a target of opportunity.

They do not hit the field ever with coyotes as the primary target.

Longer seasons and/or bounties will not change this or increase overall kill in a statistically significant amount.

[Buckmaster7600]

I'm not a huge coyote hunter but it is something to do. I certainly wouldn't spend more time doing it to try to make money but I wouldn't turn down 25$ for the 8- 10 I kill a year. Is it a waste I don't know but I can guarantee you that it's a lot less of a waste than most of the governments other ideas!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Quote: "I've yet to meet a hunter on the field that didn't want to shoot a coyote, anytime, anywhere it's legal."

And yet 99.9% of hunters will only shoot one as a target of opportunity.

They do not hit the field ever with coyotes as the primary target.

Longer seasons and/or bounties will not change this or increase overall kill in a statistically significant amount.

Very True. Many will complain about no deer yet do nothing to protect them. Cant say i would if i didnt have a vested $ interest in the game. The love of the animal(deer)has to be pretty strong to go to any extreme to protect them and the sport they offer. Most 1-2-3 weekend a year state land deer hunters will not go to any effort.

I can say as far as harvests that many a yotes could be taken during turkey season if one was so inclined to do so. 

[Mr VJP]

Is the bounty money coming from taxpayers, or from PA hunting licenses fees?  Also, is the amount expected to be paid out yearly less than the amount PA spends every year unsuccessfully handling the yotes?

 

This may not be extra money being "wasted".  It may be current funds being redirected.

 

[Pygmy]

I have not read every post, but I don't recall anybody mentioning the fact that PA already has a year round season for coyotes...In fact the only time that you can't shoot them is before noon during spring gobbler season and during deer rifle season IF you do not have a valid deer tag.You can even shoot them on SUNDAY, Praise The Lord ! Ain't too many critters you can legally shoot on Sunday in PA.

Soooooo, do you really think a $25 bounty is REALLY going to get more people shooting coyotes ?

I think it's going to waste taxpayers money paying for coyotes that would be shot REGARDLESS of the bounty...

[Mr VJP]

Soooooo, do you really think a $25 bounty is REALLY going to get more people shooting coyotes ?

 

 

Yes, someone did point out you can shoot yotes year round in PA.  

 

The question above has obviously be answered already by PA wildlife officials.  I would think they hope to entice hunters to go after them when fawns are being dropped, since that is when it would have the most positive impact and currently few hunters go afield for them at that time.

 

It might be a good idea to limit the bounty to just that period of time each year as well.

[grampy]

One selling point could be, to offset the cost of your hunting tags, kill a few coyote's.