Phesants!!

[Doewhacker]

The goal is to eventually not have to stock anymore, seems like quite a few have made it through from last year 40 or 50% from sighting s thru the winter and spring so far. But keeping the predators down is key, I think we lost more to hawks then anything else.. and that we can't do anything about...

 

That number may drop to 10% or less by next fall. The more Pheasants available means you will see an increase in birds of Prey as well and they are extremely proficient at picking them off.

[G-Man]

That number may drop to 10% or less by next fall. The more Pheasants available means you will see an increase in birds of Prey as well and they are extremely proficient at picking them off.

That's where the brushy hedge rows and escape cover are important. If that were true all the grouse and turkey would be gone by now. The 1st 2 weeks of life are the most important.. if they learn to escape then they will continue. Clean weed free field and large fields are the problem today. Small fields and "weedy" crop fields are what is needed, as farming practices increased in productivity the birds took a severe loss in escape cover and food availability.. it all comes down to the habitat.

[G-Man]

Have raised an d released a lot of bird the predators that kill the most birds are avian- hawks and owls. Throw in cars, cats, fox, coons, possums, fischers, mink and some others I have forgot and you have a go no-where proposition

Every animal you mentioned with the exception of fisher is control on the properties, and fisher hopefully will be when a season is established, as for cats.. the strays seem to dissapear around here with an audible pop. This is a large area that 3 landowners control nearly a square mile 630 acres 640is a square mile. Cars are slim to none these are dirt roads and you can count the cars thay go by on one haND in a week, except the mailman daily.. it's just the residents up and down the road.

I've seen the released birds by 4 h and phesant for ever.. I could kill them with a stick or hit 20 at a time if I swerved along the road. The birds are quite spooky and if you see one they don't wait around they hide and take to cover quickly..

As for hawks I can't legally do anything about them but can provide cover for them to escape to quickly...

[G-Man]

Do you think that if nys had extensive predator hunting/control we could trend towards having sustainable pheasants? Maybe an incentive based program or something like that. Year round predator hunting. Idk just thinking out loud. It seems like thats a huge factor on your land. that would also help all small game as well.

No it would help but the farming practices and land use has changed,

they need small weedy fields thick hedgerows to escape from hawks, most farmers have removed the hedgerows to have more land for crop production, and spray fields to keep grasses and weeds out of the crops, both are nessary for escape cover and food. Large fields may be good for put and take hunting but not survival. Don't believe it go to Darien lake and wait a week after stocking, most of the birds are not in the fields but are now in the woods!! They look for cover a field of 10 acrest in a big squae is not good a long recantangle borderd by good hedge that is 30 yards betwen hedgerows.

Allows them to feed and have cover close by incase of danger.

Edited April 14, 2016 by G-Man

[Doewhacker]

I've seen the released birds by 4 h and phesant for ever.. I could kill them with a stick or hit 20 at a time if I swerved along the road. The birds are quite spooky and if you see one they don't wait

 

They raise and release the exact same strain of Pheasant you did and the birds from Reynolds have much better and bigger pens that they are raised in, but I'm sure your birds are magically better and have better instincts.

[Doewhacker]

That's where the brushy hedge rows and escape cover are important. If that were true all the grouse and turkey would be gone by now. The 1st 2 weeks of life are the most important.. if they learn to escape then they will continue. Clean weed free field and large fields are the problem today. Small fields and "weedy" crop fields are what is needed, as farming practices increased in productivity the birds took a severe loss in escape cover and food availability.. it all comes down to the habitat.

 

 

Grouse and Turkey have different survival rates and there are more of them, they also don't rely on farming grains like Pheasant do.

[G-Man]

Grouse and Turkey have different survival rates and there are more of them, they also don't rely on farming grains like Pheasant do.

That is true, but we plant amd leave stand 15 to 30 acre of corn, and 10 to 20 acres of grain.. it feeds a lot of birds ,deer, turkey ,squirrel and grouse.. small equipment ant alot of had work. Plus a lot of surrounding land has been put into corn or grain, the corn is usually chopped leaving a lot In the fields as well.

This was not started as an after thought almost 25 years of habitat management is being used here.

[dbHunterNY]

Hey G-Man can you please provide us the details as to where to get pheasant for stocking? Thanks

 

we always got them through 4-H and Cornell Cooperative Extension.

[G-Man]

They raise and release the exact same strain of Pheasant you did and the birds from Reynolds have much better and bigger pens that they are raised in, but I'm sure your birds are magically better and have better instincts.

No my birds are no better but have much better habitat tHan the put and take locations.. habitat makes a difference. As well as how they are released a soft release is best, not dropping off a bird in unknown habitat by a truck.. letting them leave the pen and scatter on their own is a much better practice one the state cannot do...

Edited April 14, 2016 by G-Man

[G-Man]

we always got them through 4-H and Cornell Cooperative Extension.

Those birds are supose to be released on huntable land. Open to public. Edited April 14, 2016 by G-Man

[gjs4]

Its spelled Fisher, no "C".

 

 

I agree, Avian predators lead the pack when it comes to killing birds

 

 

My bad...but couldn't care less. Did you help the thread author too?

 

Hawks terrorize them all day and owls all night.

 

One thing about birds form a pen most don't get is the smell on their feet most certainly leads to an easy track and kill for critters with noses and that's if they dodge the boys in the sky.

[gjs4]

I think it was a great suggestion to release immature birds by the state. I wonder how many would back it? My least favorite "state land" interactions have taken place during pheasant (slaughter) season.... It is a really sad activity with the end game being far from sporting or positive. Think it's also sad no one has every really pinned down why their numbers plummeted or why their population is so hard to sustain.

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[G-Man]

I think it was a great suggestion to release immature birds by the state. I wonder how many would back it? My least favorite "state land" interactions have taken place during pheasant (slaughter) season.... It is a really sad activity with the end game being far from sporting or positive. Think it's also sad no one has every really pinned down why their numbers plummeted or why their population is so hard to sustain.

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I think they do know and the state pushes for birds up in the Niagara escarpment. Habitat loss, more effecient farming practices and a blizard in 77 seems to be main reasons.

I just don't see the state doing anything for habitat improvement for phesant, they are not native so maybe thats why they are content with put and take.. .

[mike rossi]

They raise and release the exact same strain of Pheasant you did and the birds from Reynolds have much better and bigger pens that they are raised in, but I'm sure your birds are magically better and have better instincts.

 

The DEC raises three strains:  Chinese, Manchurian, and Chinese X Manchurian. 

 

Grouse and Turkey have different survival rates and there are more of them, they also don't rely on farming grains like Pheasant do.

 

Pheasant exploit grain crops, but they are not dependent on them. They do just fine in grassland or similar areas without crop farming. They eat a varied diet and are not obligated to feeding on grain.

 

Some  game birds like the prairie chicken do better on native grasslands without crop farming. Pheasant are different and do well in agricultural areas, provided they are not intensely farmed. Still other game birds such as gray partridge and mourning dove can handle intensely farmed landscapes better than pheasant. 

 

Farming created vacant ecological niches less suitable for the native prairie chicken, sharp-tailed grouse, and heath hen. Pheasant and gray partridge were introduced and filled those vacant niches.   

 

As farming practices changed, pheasant did not thrive as well, although gray partridge handle clean farming somewhat better. Mourning doves are much more adaptable and continued to increase their population and distribution under modern farming practices. 

 

New farming practices were just the beginning of the problem. Following new farming practices came less overall farmland, and much of what remained was fragmented. Even more factors played in, like fire control which allowed grasslands to mature into forest. The practices of beaver control and tree planting are not always all they are cracked up to be either. 

 

Even in the face of development, fragmentation, forest maturation, clean farming, and fire control; mourning dove populations continue to thrive. There are many reasons for why MD differ from RNP, GP, PC, STG. A few key differences that give them an advantage are:

 

Although they do nest on the ground, they will nest in trees.Where there are no tress they can nest on the ground... That allows doves to have an extremely wide distribution.

 

They are not impacted by fragmentation - they do not walk their broods across highways for example. When the young of the year disperse from their parents they have a much easier time finding suitable habitat than young ruffed grouse do, and most will form flocks and migrate their first year anyway - a bit different than the grouses strategy. Fragmentation is not the kiss of death for doves as it is other game birds....

 

Most mourning doves migrate

 

They produce "crop milk" so they do not require eating insects during reproduction or as chicks, thus pesticide use and other clean farming practices does not limit their reproduction, although herbicide application can because they forage on seeds. Herbicide reduces seeds, as pesticides reduce insects.  

 

Doves feed on exposed bare ground characteristic of clean farming. Clean farming removes most of the native plant ("weed") seeds doves naturally eat, but they still find ample weed seeds around human activity including farming, and they of course eat any waste grain left on the bare soil.  Other game birds get picked of by predators in the open, so do doves, but for whatever reason that has not limited dove populations. When food is depleted or covered by snow they just migrate. That gives them an edge over non-migratory game birds. Although if in good condition in the autumn,  pheasant, grouse etc... can live for 30 days without food even in severe cold, which might allow them to survive over winter, however, if the hens are underweight during breeding season they do not lay as many eggs. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by mike rossi

[G-Man]

Yep , our sloppy farming practices lead to a lot of mourning doves in the field.. of course they spook out when your walking in to a tree stand in the afternoon. Not sure if they tip off the deer or not.....lol

[solon]

my neighbor used to raise and release pheasant - coyotes got most and they would scare the heck out of me as i would walk to my stands in the fall 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

The DEC raises three strains:  Chinese, Manchurian, and Chinese X Manchurian. 

 

 

Pheasant exploit grain crops, but they are not dependent on them. They do just fine in grassland or similar areas without crop farming. They eat a varied diet and are not obligated to feeding on grain.

 

Some  game birds like the prairie chicken do better on native grasslands without crop farming. Pheasant are different and do well in agricultural areas, provided they are not intensely farmed. Still other game birds such as gray partridge and mourning dove can handle intensely farmed landscapes better than pheasant. 

 

Farming created vacant ecological niches less suitable for the native prairie chicken, sharp-tailed grouse, and heath hen. Pheasant and gray partridge were introduced and filled those vacant niches.   

 

As farming practices changed, pheasant did not thrive as well, although gray partridge handle clean farming somewhat better. Mourning doves are much more adaptable and continued to increase their population and distribution under modern farming practices. 

 

New farming practices were just the beginning of the problem. Following new farming practices came less overall farmland, and much of what remained was fragmented. Even more factors played in, like fire control which allowed grasslands to mature into forest. The practices of beaver control and tree planting are not always all they are cracked up to be either. 

 

Even in the face of development, fragmentation, forest maturation, clean farming, and fire control; mourning dove populations continue to thrive. There are many reasons for why MD differ from RNP, GP, PC, STG. A few key differences that give them an advantage are:

 

Although they do nest on the ground, they will nest in trees.Where there are no tress they can nest on the ground... That allows doves to have an extremely wide distribution.

 

They are not impacted by fragmentation - they do not walk their broods across highways for example. When the young of the year disperse from their parents they have a much easier time finding suitable habitat than young ruffed grouse do, and most will form flocks and migrate their first year anyway - a bit different than the grouses strategy. Fragmentation is not the kiss of death for doves as it is other game birds....

 

Most mourning doves migrate

 

They produce "crop milk" so they do not require eating insects during reproduction or as chicks, thus pesticide use and other clean farming practices does not limit their reproduction, although herbicide application can because they forage on seeds. Herbicide reduces seeds, as pesticides reduce insects.  

 

Doves feed on exposed bare ground characteristic of clean farming. Clean farming removes most of the native plant ("weed") seeds doves naturally eat, but they still find ample weed seeds around human activity including farming, and they of course eat any waste grain left on the bare soil.  Other game birds get picked of by predators in the open, so do doves, but for whatever reason that has not limited dove populations. When food is depleted or covered by snow they just migrate. That gives them an edge over non-migratory game birds. Although if in good condition in the autumn,  pheasant, grouse etc... can live for 30 days without food even in severe cold, which might allow them to survive over winter, however, if the hens are underweight during breeding season they do not lay as many eggs. 

Strange how 1 paragraph went to the topic at hand and then Boom..Doves!   Typical.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Four Season Whitetails

[gjs4]

Chinese Manchurian Mourning

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[mike rossi]

Not really my concern what the OP does with his land or money.

 

My reply was directed at Doewhacker because he seemed to be resonating something I have heard among his dog circles which is not correct. Namely that pheasant require grain (corn or the similar). Since Doewhacker is not missing any cylinders I gave him the info in a broad, comprehensive context. Others, who are missing a few cylinders, can't handle it, as usual. 

 

By the way OP, what kind of dogs do you run? 

[G-Man]

I don't have dogs of my own, never needed them, the stocked birds at darien lake were easy to walk up on the few times i went for phesant (that was 20 years ago and part of the main reason i decided to try my experiment here). But my friend uses Brittney spaniels they are well trained and fun to hunt with. I still won't get dogs as I do not have the time to give them that they need due to work.

[diplomat019]

g-man.  could you post some pics of the land/birds?  it would be cool to see what you have done

[f3cbboy]

this thread was a great read. good job gman i wish you nothing but good fortune in this!!

[Lawdwaz]

Yes ,I enlist the help of a trapper who hits racoon,opossom very hard(if he does that I let him trap, for mink,muskrat,and beaver out of the creek,) he will take some fox and a coyote. I also allow people that ask to hunt and call fox and coyote as well as introduce them to the neighbors so they get permission on about a square mile.

I am lucky to get a pic of a coyote on 14 trail cams that are out year round, usually if u do get one it's hunting season and I belive they are looking for gut piles. I do have red and grey fox but they seem to stay on the voles,mice and red squirrels pretty much. But their numbers are low, the crows seem to clean up most of the gut piles around here and it takes a few days, now the bear are starting to do that as well.

 

Nothing can be done about the flying predators, hawks and owls. 

 

I've seen the damage they can do!  I don't know if it's true or not but a preserve owner told me years ago that the hawk kills to eat but the owl kills for the thrill.

[stoneam2006]

I've been fishing cuba a few times and right around dusk that's all you hear is ring necks surrounding the lake

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[G-Man]

I've been fishing cuba a few times and right around dusk that's all you hear is ring necks surrounding the lake

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That's my hill by the boat launch they have worked all the way around to rawson road.. love hearing them Edited April 29, 2016 by G-Man