Common Sense Law or Zero Intelligence?

[virgil]

really, what are you all so afraid of?  how can you be talking about the government and the military attacking it's own people?  there has never been any such suggestion by any sane person.  this is fear mongering at it's most dangerous.  and, 'freedom' doesn't mean that you can do absolutely anything that you want- that's lawlessness, anarchy.  we live in a civilized society, and that means that we should be expected to abide by laws meant to protect the general public, and that's what gun laws are intended to do.  freedom means personal sacrifice.  we have police to protect us and our families.  we don't need assault rifles.  do you really think that your home is going to be invaded by any person or group so heavily armed that a 12 gague or 30-06 won't be enough to protect you?  has any state made any effort to take away any sportsman's hunting rifles?  if so, i haven't heard of it.

[steve863]

Steve...think the world of you...but an armed public can protect itself even from the current military. I look at what the Afgans did to the soviet unioun ....granted with our help in arms. And one thing I think many overlook...our military is not compromised of a bunch of brainless bafoons. I think if the leaders ever tried to bring that force against the American public.....they may get quite a shock. I put a lot of faith in our military people....and i don't mean the ones with all the stars on their shoulders.

Do I think the gov't will be coming any time soon to take my arms away...I don't think so...but I don't think we can give them one step in that direction...a train is a lot easier to keep stopped than it is to stop it once it is moving.

Thanks Culver, and I think extremely highly of you also.  I surely don't think we are far apart in our thinking.  I just don't lose much sleep over guns.  We have  a large enough arms industry in this country that banning them or their manufacture would put a good many people out of work and I don't see that happening any time soon.  I don't think hunters will ever be in jeopardy of losing their guns either.  States need game killed for public safety sake and everyone is well aware that hunters with guns are the ones to get that job done.  Bow, crossbow or muzzleloader hunters can never fill the void.  As far as other guns that are most frequently used in crime, well what can I say?  Like I said in another thread, the gun manufacturers don't sell them to the bad guys in some back alleys.  Most all guns are brought to market "legally".  From then on what is actually legal or illegal is up for debate.  Obviously the guns are being bought legally by those who can buy them legally and then end up in the hands of people who shouldn't have them.  Obviously there seems to be a breakdown somewhere in reasonable safeguards that might prevent the bad guys from getting them so easily.  I am not saying I have a good solution to it all, but some of us at least can see that problems do exist and in my opinion they are not helping the law abiding gun owners cause one bit.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

really, what are you all so afraid of?  how can you be talking about the government and the military attacking it's own people?  there has never been any such suggestion by any sane person.  this is fear mongering at it's most dangerous.  and, 'freedom' doesn't mean that you can do absolutely anything that you want- that's lawlessness, anarchy.  we live in a civilized society, and that means that we should be expected to abide by laws meant to protect the general public, and that's what gun laws are intended to do.  freedom means personal sacrifice.  we have police to protect us and our families.  we don't need assault rifles.  do you really think that your home is going to be invaded by any person or group so heavily armed that a 12 gague or 30-06 won't be enough to protect you?  has any state made any effort to take away any sportsman's hunting rifles?  if so, i haven't heard of it.

Virgil, read what I wrote in the context of what I was resonding too. Do I think that will ever happen. I certainly hope not. But that was the context that our forefathers wrote the 2nd ammendment in.

I am going to take a HUGE exception to one comment you made...and any "sane" person would. Show me a definitiion that uses personal sacrifice in the definition of freedom other than the context of sacrificing ones life for freedom. Our God given and Constitutionally protected freedoms are not to be sacrificed for anything...ever.

As far as you assertion that I should be fully capable of protecting my hime with my 06 and my 12 ga...I agree....my 12 ga is my preference for that purpose...my preference...it may not be others and they should have the right to choose. If I file the appropriate paperwork and get approved...my choice may be a mac-10. The the second ammendment does not indicate they are only speaking about hunting weapons. And lets be honest here. I have seen legislation drawn up that in fact would have made my remington model 7400 in 30-06 a restriced weapon due to the external clip that I could but an extended clip for. I have friends that predator hunt with an AR...so is that a hunting rifle. Do I think every home should have a fully automatic M-16 in it...no. But I can bet my father in laws cousin wishes he had one when his boat was taken by pirates in Florida waters...of course we will never be able to ask him.

When it comes to my family's safety...I will not waiver. do I want to be armed equally with an agressor coming into my house. My answer is no...you may choose to be on even ground and roll the dice with your family's lives. I am not.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

the consitution was and is a brilliant document.  however, it reflects the needs of society at the time it was written.  it has been amended many time since it was first written, and with good reason. 

I think 27 times in over 200 years isn't really that many...26 really because one was a repeal of another one

[bpb]

really, what are you all so afraid of?  how can you be talking about the government and the military attacking it's own people?  there has never been any such suggestion by any sane person. 

u?  has any state made any effort to take away any sportsman's hunting rifles?  if so, i haven't heard of it.

??? :

Actually yes there has been many times over this countries history the military was marched on thousands of Americans and Veterans too! At the order of the President. The military , killed,,shot, sabered,burned, starved, poisoned, injected with poisons,injected with viruses, gave small pox infected blankets the list is endless.

Yes states have laws to take your hunting rifles they've just not asked for them yet. Well except for , CA, New Orleans, MA, NY, Wash DC.

Need more? Go do a little history reading then.

zero tolerance = intolerance, odd how were fighting all those countries that are[/size][/size]Islamic based. Ya know on the belief of intolerance to infidels.[/size][/size]Could we say if you don't support the 2nd amendment & you support zero tolerance [/size]you're a terrorist?

[WNYBuckHunter]

2brknot, i think you've gone off the tracks again.  not sure what you're referring to-because i don't use what?  an assault rifle?  who do i need to assault?  you're quick to label me a 'leftist' because i don't want to overthrow the government to 'protect' my rights.  i just don't have any irrational fears that anyone is trying to take away my hunting rifles and shotguns.  get a grip.  you're probably just a gun-loving racist who's pissed off because there is a man of color in the white house.  your obvious paranoia prevents you from considering that anyone should be allowed to have a different view than yours; and makes you quick to question the patriotism or intelligence of sensible gun owners and sportsmen who don't feel the need to carry a gun or sleep with one under our pillows when we're not in the woods hunting (or working on our manifesto in your case).

Still waiting to hear your definition of "assault weapon"

[nyantler]

2brknot, i think you've gone off the tracks again.  not sure what you're referring to-because i don't use what?  an assault rifle?  who do i need to assault?  you're quick to label me a 'leftist' because i don't want to overthrow the government to 'protect' my rights.  i just don't have any irrational fears that anyone is trying to take away my hunting rifles and shotguns.  get a grip.  you're probably just a gun-loving racist who's pissed off because there is a man of color in the white house.  your obvious paranoia prevents you from considering that anyone should be allowed to have a different view than yours; and makes you quick to question the patriotism or intelligence of sensible gun owners and sportsmen who don't feel the need to carry a gun or sleep with one under our pillows when we're not in the woods hunting (or working on our manifesto in your case).

A sensible gun owner would know that our 2nd Ammendment right has and will always be in jeopardy as long as we have gun owners that think like you do... You may be willing to compromise but my right to keep and bear arms may not be infringed in any way shape or form.

A criminal is a criminal no matter his weapon of choice.. we already have laws to for criminals.. we don't need laws that impede a law abiding citizens right to own any firearm... the laws are suppose to be made for those that misuse that right and break the law... keeping me from owning an "assault weapon" has done nothing to stop criminals from still using them, the only thing it has accomplished is keeping me from owning one.

[Mr VJP]

Those of you that only care about the firearms you own, while willing to allow the government to criminalize other gun owners firearms, one small step at a time, are not good American citizens, and make me physically ill when I read your posts.

Do you really think the Fed will stop banning guns at some point?  It is a slippery slope boys!  The more they get what they demand, the more they will demand.  Have you no clue of the history of gun confiscation in Great Britain, Australia, Canada and the United states?

Are you not aware of the concerted efforts in this country to stop hunting?  When that happens, why will you need to own a hunting firearm?  You will have painted yourself into a corner at that point and have no argument for keeping them, will you? 

You guys are so far from being informed of the reality of the threats that are currently in progress in America, you are totally useless in the fight to stop it.

Thankfully, there are people, and organizations, in this country who are informed, aware of the attacks on gun ownership and willing to stand up to it and fight!  The rest of you might as well be bull teets.  Useless!  Perhaps, regarding 2nd Amendment freedoms, even dangerous!

When I run into gun owners with such naive beliefs, I will not hunt with, shoot with or associate with such people.  I have three words for them.  "Damn You Dumb!"

[steve863]

Are you not aware of the concerted efforts in this country to stop hunting?  When that happens, why will you need to own a hunting firearm?  You will have painted yourself into a corner at that point and have no argument for keeping them, will you? 

So who is making this concerted effort?  PETA? The humane society?  Sorry to tell you, but their concerted efforts have not put more than a mere scratch on hunting in this country.  As far as I know every damned state in the union has a hunting season of one form or another.  Even the most liberal states have never put an outright ban on hunting into effect.  Yeah, maybe a special hunt has been  stopped somewhere along the way, but as I've said this is no more than a mere scratch on hunting opportunities in this country.  Hunting brings in the bulk of revenue for wildlife and environmental management to states and it will be a cold day in hell before the states just throw away such a source of revenue.  Hunting ain't going anywhere anytime soon!!  Sorry to have to say it but some of you guys are downright paranoid.  You think the boogeymen are hiding in the bushes in your backyards and are out to get for everything that you do.  This is pretty sad if you ask me.  One should go about living life and not constantly be obsessed with what the other guy may have up his sleeve. 

[steve863]

"Damn You Dumb!"

For your information, you obviously aren't the sharpest tool in the shed neither!  Thinking that every bloody gunowner/hunter out there should think exactly the same way as you and be as paranoid as you actually proves it all quite nicely to us.  LOL

[Mr VJP]

You need to study the history of hunting in European countries.  If you did you will see how their hunting was relegated to total government control and available only to the well connected or wealthy.  Peasants are not able to hunt, nor are they able to own hunting firearms.

But of course, that could never happen here.

:

See no evil, hear no evil.

[Doewhacker]

You need to study the history of hunting in European countries.  If you did you will see how their hunting was relegated to total government control and available only to the well connected or wealthy.  Peasants are not able to hunt, nor are they able to own hunting firearms.

But of course, that could never happen here.

:

See no evil, hear no evil.

Its already here, check the prices of equipment and find private land access or a lease. And WE are to blame for that not the govt. Just look at the number of people that are ok with higher fee's for every thing.

[Mr VJP]

Those who believe they will always have a right to hunt in this country, without lifting a finger to prevent it's demise in the future, also hear only three words from me.

Damn You Dumb!

[steve863]

You need to study the history of hunting in European countries.  If you did you will see how their hunting was relegated to total government control and available only to the well connected or wealthy.  Peasants are not able to hunt, nor are they able to own hunting firearms.

But of course, that could never happen here.

:

See no evil, hear no evil.

Its already here, check the prices of equipment and find private land access or a lease. And WE are to blame for that not the govt. Just look at the number of people that are ok with higher fee's for every thing.

Exactly Doe!  It's not the government or PETA that wants $7000 for a whitetail hunt in Texas.  If hunting becomes what VJP suggests, it will be our fault, not PETA's, the governments or anyone else.  Of course it's always easier to blame the boogeymen!

[Mr VJP]

And the government, PETA, animal rights groups, etc. have never done anything at all to give anyone pause that our hunting rights on public land may ever be in jeopardy!!!

:

Some people never see it coming.

[steve863]

And the government, PETA, animal rights groups, etc. have never done anything at all to give anyone pause that our hunting rights on public land may ever be in jeopardy!!!

:

Some people never see it coming.

I see death coming to you and me one day also.  You can be sure we won't escape it.  Should I spend every minute of the day worrying about it?  I sure won't.

[Mr VJP]

Knowing what keeps you healthy allows you to live longer too.  Some people die young due to unhealthy lifestyle choices, accidents, or even murder.  Others are smarter.  It's Darwinian natural selection.  Only the intelligent survive, except for in this country, where the government helps to keep stupid people alive.

[steve863]

Funny how some of you will use Darwin's theories when they suit you.  I guess all the stupid people in the world need to bow down to you for helping them stay alive?  You are a legend in your own mind, that is for darned sure.  I doubt there are any theories out there that can dispute that!

[virgil]

darwinism refers to survival of the fittest, not the loudest and most paranoid.

[Mr VJP]

"Fittest", encompasses all survival skills boys, including awareness and intelligence.  Life is what happens to you when you least expect it and are busy making other plans.  When I was a young lad, the boy scouts taught me to be prepared.  My experiences in life since then have convinced me that was good advice.

Suit yourselves.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Virgil, you gonna answer my question?

[virgil]

and paranoia negates intelligence.

[Mr VJP]

And denial is the realm of the oblivious.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

When I was a young lad, the boy scouts taught me to be prepared.  My experiences in life since then have convinced me that was good advice.

I KNEW IT!!! Those Boy Scouts are an extemeist para-military organization...LOL

[Mr VJP]

And Homo-phobic!!