Antler restrictions

[dbHunterNY]

15 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

I double that with anyone on the state land and consistently take 6 or betters . Majority pro AR hunt private land

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you can't make that sole connection.  it's that way by default as most land in NY is private land, if you disregard the adirondacks. hell DEC's 1:1.7-1.9 buck to doe ratio is skewed because of up north.  in AR areas and areas of western NY it's 1:3 even during the season but everywhere else it's closer to 1:5.  it'd be worse but the herd corrects itself with respect to ratio each year when doe drop more fawns.

[Buckmaster7600]

It actually seems pretty easy to me to monitor it all but the manning of the check in s is the issue. The license system is computerized. check ins scan the tags in as they come in. when you get you new license you have to scan in the unused tags from previous year. If you don't have them scanned in either location then no new license. 

I don't see this ever happening in NY, states too big. How far would it be acceptable to have to haul a deer to the check station? If it's too far the now law abiding hunters might become the law breakers for convenience. If I shoot a deer in my back yard then have to put it in my truck and haul it 30 miles to a check station to turn around and haul it back home to butcher would make me consider not tagging it that's for sure.

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[Steuben Jerry]

1 hour ago, adkhunter71 said:

Don't get me wrong, if I had enough time to hunt, I could fill my buck tag consistently with ARs or without them.  I just remember when I was getting started that I almost gave up because I was consistently not seeing deer and was getting tired of freezing my ass off.  I didn't kill my first deer until I was 18 (a twelve point wiith split brows) after starting with my father when I was too young to carry a gun by myself.  In the years since, I have killed spike horns, fork horns, 5 pointers, six, seven 8 and 9 pointers as well as does.  I appreciate all of them the same as I did the first one.  

I want my kids to be able to experience hunting and have the opportunity to take whatever makes them happy with whatever time that they get to hunt.  All while not having their experience restricted because someone else chooses to shoot a bigger buck.

Well said.

I got my wife into hunting about 15 years ago. She doesn't bow hunt and generally after week one of the regular season, she'll only go out 1 or 2 more times as she get into the Christmas activities (no problem there, her doing all that gets me out more). She's only taken about 4 does, and two bucks in her "career". A small four pt. a few years back, and a small five point this year. She passed that five on opening day, but took it last Saturday - she was thrilled, it was her best deer! It was a "scrub" buck. 

I got my daughter into it about 5 years ago. Her first year she took a small eight, second, a big nine. Last year she drove 300 miles up here to pass deer and go home empty handed. She took a 1 and 1/2 eight point on Thanksgiving and will not go home empty handed. Her husband came up for one day last week and took an almost out to the ears seven-point - his best deer.

I had my 9-year old grandson (other daughter) sitting with me for my wife's and my daughter's deer. He's hooked!

I have now introduced three new hunters into our fraternity, and hunted with three generations of our family on our place this year for the first time - I'm thrilled!.

Antler restrictions would have taken that all away from me.

By the way, we all got turned down for doe tags for the third year in a row. I did get a landowners tag, and I took her with my grandson sitting next to me. He was thrilled!

I also let each one of those bucks walk away (along with quite a few others last week) on the first two days.

Let antler restrictions be voluntary, and let social pressure be what it is for the more experienced hunters, or just leave them alone if they are just out there for meat, have limited time/opportunity or what ever.

New York is the most restrictive state in the nation. I for one, am tired of restrictions. Safe, legal, ethical - that's what I'm for.

[growalot]

You  have 4 H, Scouts that all require some sort of public service...having these kids with there leaders manning check in stations seems to me as a no brainer for all involved. It teaches about food harvests,record keeping,dealing with the public,assisting your county and state(public Service),the DEC would only need one man on scene  to do official things and minimal training to detect irregularities on tags. Like units and counties  God forbid forgetting to cut out the right month,etc.,etc.

[ApexerER]

15 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

It actually seems pretty easy to me to monitor it all but the manning of the check in s is the issue. The license system is computerized. check ins scan the tags in as they come in. when you get you new license you have to scan in the unused tags from previous year. If you don't have them scanned in either location then no new license. 

That actually sounds like a great system. One I had never thought of. BUT....how far are you going to make a person drive for a check in station? 20 Miles? 50 Miles? Even at 50 Miles that would be a lot of manpower to cover the state from Oct 1st - Dec 11th... That would leave no DEC officers to patrol for poachers, trespassers etc.

Now, expanding on your idea...I could see creating a DEC app for a smartphone...You have to scan your tag and submit a pic of your deer or something along those lines. If you tag isn't scanned by the app and submitted they have to be scanned and sent in as unused. Now that being said...Can you require a person to have a smart phone to hunt. Probably not but I could see something along those lines working as technology progresses.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

25 minutes ago, ApexerER said:

While I agree that you are correct...How many of those people that are willing to fill their tag, wifes tag, kids tag etc....are going to stop at a deer check station? Out of the 12 guys I hunt with, I am the only person that brings my deer to a butcher. Everyone else goes home, hangs them and butchers them. So I don't know the actual percentage of hunters that use a processer but my guess is it is low. I have to follow the law (and would anyway) because I know DEC is going to see my deer at the processor. My guess is a good majority of the hunters wouldn't bother with a deer check in even if mandatory. They are going to go in the back of the truck, then home and cut up...Or dragged from "out back" and cut up. More laws only hurt the people that abide by them....

Because if they dont and they dont send back those umused tags they dont hunt the next year.  We hunt Letchworth and they have for 15 years, Give or Take, Make you send back a report of deer killed. You dont and you dont hunt the park the next year.Would not be a real tough thing to do at the DEC dept. One person and a computer and its done.  Pretty simple really, and you know as well as i do that some wife or kid standing in front of someone in law is going to crumble when asked about the deer they killed. Like..Tell me the story? Your first deer? How many times you shoot it?  Stuff like that would stop the guys that kill 6-8-10 a year with others tags and i can promise ya 2 things. 1 it happens a pile in Ny and 2 most of the deer these guys kill are baby bucks and baby button bucks.

[Buckmaster7600]

That actually sounds like a great system. One I had never thought of. BUT....how far are you going to make a person drive for a check in station? 20 Miles? 50 Miles? Even at 50 Miles that would be a lot of manpower to cover the state from Oct 1st - Dec 11th... That would leave no DEC officers to patrol for poachers, trespassers etc.
Now, expanding on your idea...I could see creating a DEC app for a smartphone...You have to scan your tag and submit a pic of your deer or something along those lines. If you tag isn't scanned by the app and submitted they have to be scanned and sent in as unused. Now that being said...Can you require a person to have a smart phone to hunt. Probably not but I could see something along those lines working as technology progresses.

They tried the cellphone thing in NC and it was revoked because to legally do it they would have to issue the phones with the tags.


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[dbHunterNY]

15 hours ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

I can here durring those seasons no doe tags in 9x but some spots of adks are no doe at all.

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to be clear, i think anyone can buy a tag to hunt doe anywhere in the state except WMUs that are NYC and city of Buffalo.  in some areas you're talking about you just can't hunt them with the most efficient weapons.

[stoneam2006]

to be clear, i think anyone can buy a tag to hunt doe anywhere in the state except WMUs that are NYC and city of Buffalo.  in some areas you're talking about you just can't hunt them with the most efficient weapons.

I will look but I do not believe that to be true

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[dbHunterNY]

13 hours ago, BuckThornBooners said:

I think the voluntary AR is working well seems in general most all hunters perfer big bucks over small bucks.  i also think the state is doing the right thing by providing deer management education in the hand book..  I feel like they are laying it out there for hunters to decide   here is your tags but it's up to you to manage the deer heard in you area.  if you like big mature deer thay have to live to maturity... this is what a small 1.5 looks like and if you choose not to shoot him he could live 2 more years give you twice the meat and one massive rack ..you decide..  

We have to remember that without management and restrictions we wouldint be arguing at all because the meat hunters would have exterminated the whitetail  population long ago  

you just earned a friend.... some people went out of their way to get that info into the handbook, if it was left up to DEC it probably would've never been considered and had happened.  even within inner circles of people all for young buck protection, some have said it wouldn't do much of anything having stuff like that in the regs guide.  not enough out there and nobody would really read it.  i think it's done a lot of good.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

19 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

to be clear, i think anyone can buy a tag to hunt doe anywhere in the state except WMUs that are NYC and city of Buffalo.  in some areas you're talking about you just can't hunt them with the most efficient weapons.

Oh for Christ's sake come on. That is thin. Tell a guy in the Daks to go without an opportunity on a buck but you can take a doe if you just go in with a bow. into an area where you might only see a couple flags a year. 

[Rack Attack]

One thing that keeps getting brought up is all the rules reducing hunter numbers.  One interesting fact that you might want to look into is that NY have one of the highest hunter densities in the country, so I guess I don't really see this as an issue... I'm not for true antler restrictions, however I am totally for letting young bucks walk.  I feel like true antler restrictions are tough to make work in all or most situations.  As been said in my area the good 1.5 year old bucks have 6-8 points and would be legal to shoot by most restrictions.  The problem is those are the bucks you really want to let walk.  I don't know that the one buck limit would change a whole lot of things overall either.  The shortening of gun season, may have some effect, but that's questionable as well as we see a sharp drop in hunters after the first week anyway.  I really think it comes down to educating people, and in some way shape or form getting them to buying in to holding out for older bucks.  I have seen a pretty decent change in mentality around my hunting area, with more hunters holding out for older age class bucks (not antler size, but body size) and it has made a marked improvement in the quality of bucks in our area.  I also think in light of the recent safety issues while hunting, making people slow down and fully identify the target is a good thing. 

Maybe the best way to get people to buy into holding out for older bucks is to celebrate the body weight of the deer rather than the antler score?  This is the mentality in Maine and some other areas (the big thing is to shoot the heaviest buck) and would potentially accomplish the end goal?  I don't have all the answers, or even any of the answers just opinions.

[dbHunterNY]

 

12 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

Im all for AR's, but we should not force kids to follow it. Let a junior hunter shoot any deer. 

even in areas with voluntary antler restrictions that's usually a given.  even a hunter who's old but never has shot a buck gets free pass.  that's the way it should be.

[dbHunterNY]

25 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Oh for Christ's sake come on. That is thin. Tell a guy in the Daks to go without an opportunity on a buck but you can take a doe if you just go in with a bow. into an area where you might only see a couple flags a year. 

sorry to clarify i wasn't stating it to pose an argument.  i'm just saying you can take a doe there and "no doe" isn't completely accurate.  the "no doe" up north has gotten thrown around a lot lately.

[dbHunterNY]

51 minutes ago, stoneam2006 said:

 

I will look but I do not believe that to be true

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you can look if you want but it wasn't anything related to justifying ARs up there or not.  more to set the record straight.  nothing personal.  not trying to tear anyone down.

[growalot]

A difference between either or tags and the DMP that most if not all are referring to.

[dbHunterNY]

11 hours ago, Taylormike said:

If AR was implemented throughout the entire State, I would imagine many more bucks would be taken illegally and not reported.  Even worse, I'm sure some would shoot and upon walking up realize "oh no, it's not a legal buck.  Now what?  Are these deer left to rot?  I never hunted PA or AR zones so not sure of the shortcomings.

it happens much less than you'd think.  by far more common now without ARs for people to shoot a deer and not tag it so they can still hunt and hold out for a bigger one.  manditory reporting has to happen.  accountability here in NY is setup to fail.

[upstate]

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You don't need big acerage to get a big buck. You just need the right 5 acres. 

My days of seeing a big buck and actually pursuing him all season are over due to the limitations on where I have access. I used to hunt over 200 acres near Rushville NY and there were always big deer to hunt. Even then, they'd get killed a half a mile away.

 

I have 60 acres, none of it the best habitat. I am looking for more. Hunting is becoming a rich man's game and many won't or can't pay. 

[dbHunterNY]

13 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

I apologize then because when I read your statement, i get the understanding that your saying youth hunters should also follow the AR rules. I think any senior and and youth hunter should be exempt from AR's 

you wouldn't think it but youth hunters have no predetermined views or stances they see things for what they are and where they're going.  i'm still pushing for youth hunters to be exempt as long as they're a youth hunter.  they've all told me to basically go fly a kite and it's good the way it is now.  right now we have it as first buck gets a free pass from AR's.  it still doesn't make sense and i've told them it's good to get some deer under their belts first.  our restrictions are more than what should be state implemented too.

[dbHunterNY]

9 minutes ago, upstate said:

My days of seeing a big buck and actually pursuing him all season are over due to the limitations on where I have access. I used to hunt over 200 acres near Rushville NY and there were always big deer to hunt. Even then, they'd get killed a half a mile away.

 

I have 60 acres, none of it the best habitat. I am looking for more. Hunting is becoming a rich man's game and many won't or can't pay. 

that's one of the major points of AR's for a region within a state.  it's less likely they'll do much in areas of adirondacks and areas from niagara to rochester and just below.  they really shine for areas in the southeastern 2/3 of the state.  it makes the small acreage little guy empowered to feel he doesn't have to take only what he/she gets walking into their little piece of heaven.  it's only getting worse too.  big acreage is leased to help pay some taxes and upon each generation it gets subdivided and/or sold off.  we have over 80 land owners in our QDM co-op only bound by handshakes between landowners, by far most of them are less than 80 acres.

[dbHunterNY]

26 minutes ago, growalot said:

A difference between either or tags and the DMP that most if not all are referring to.

those either or tags are a big portion of antlerless take throughout the state.  not every place in the state is blessed with HIGH DMP tag allocations like where you hunt.  many rely on preference points or a tax id for 50+ acres of land.  "most if not all referring to" is an assumption on your part.

[Steuben Jerry]

1 hour ago, dbHunterNY said:

to be clear, i think anyone can buy a tag to hunt doe anywhere in the state except WMUs that are NYC and city of Buffalo.  in some areas you're talking about you just can't hunt them with the most efficient weapons.

I'm in Steuben County, a pretty good deer county. The last two years the odds were low for first selection, and there is no second selection in my WMU. Most of my family and all of my nearby neighbors have been denied doe tags for the 3rd year in a row.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

31 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

sorry to clarify i wasn't stating it to pose an argument.  i'm just saying you can take a doe there and "no doe" isn't completely accurate.  the "no doe" up north has gotten thrown around a lot lately.

Do I need to list the WMU's that do NOT issue antlerless permits? Or the ones that are very restrictive in issuing? 

As I have said before that AR's will not impact the way I hunt. My personal standards are higher than anything they would ever impose. I will tell you this. If they decide on a state wide AR I would fight tooth and nail against it and if it was going to go through, push that ALL antlerless was done through the lottery system. NO MORE Antlerless or either sex for bow/ML. Give the gun hunters across the state the same opportunity to have a shot at an antlerless as the bow/ML hunters. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

7 minutes ago, Steuben Jerry said:

I'm in Steuben County, a pretty good deer county. The last two years the odds were low for first selection, and there is no second selection in my WMU. Most of my family and all of my nearby neighbors have been denied doe tags for the 3rd year in a row.

Oh you....just go sit in the corner with that license you bought, be quiet and wait a couple years. They promise you won't even notice the two years for the magic to happen. 

[dbHunterNY]

2 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

The guys I know that hunt up there have no desire at all for AR's. 

i agree a lot of hunters in the adirondacks don't want ARs due to lack of deer.  i'm not trying to push ARs up there or where you are.  you and i both know where we both stand on ARs, that they really shine in the southeastern 2/3 of the state, and that within our relative inner circles ARs are succesfully being used BOTH in the adirondacks and where you are.  the lack of consideration of ARs being a valid game management tool has to stop and we should all be clear that knowledge is out there of what effects they have in different regions.  i'd love to have the potential you guys have out their to grow respectable deer.  that fact is we don't have it out this way and we have more hunters.  different needs for different regions.