Whats your thoughts...

[Four Season Whitetail's]

So Ny is going to push to have whitetail deer urine banned from use in Ny woods because of the CWD farce. One that they have no science to back themselves up with?   What are your thoughts on this matter? There is a public comment period until the 23rd.

[nodeerhere]

I personally have never had it work for me. I have used it without much success. So it don't matter either way to me. I think the company's that sell it are going to take a big hit! 

[Doewhacker]

Can you hang a link to the comment site?

I don't use it but it sounds pointless to me.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

59 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

Can you hang a link to the comment site?

I don't use it but it sounds pointless to me.

Public Input on Hunting Regulations-Ny   dec.ny.gov    They have a bunch of things on their radar.

 

One would think that with Ny being one of only 5 states considered CWD free even though we had it years ago and sure if they would test more animals around the Pa border they would find positives here now, That they would pull all the crap off the shelves from all the other CWD positive states and only sell urine from our own 100% tested CWD free herds in the sporting goods stores?  All money would stay in Ny, would be Ny taxable and would be a win-win for all involved.

Im sure this one will be played out in a court of law...

[Doewhacker]

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/104785.html

 

 

Here is a link, after reading it over it doesn't seem clear that there is any good reason they want to discuss it even. It seems incredibly foolish in their part to discuss baiting deer to give them tick meds and then in the very next section bring up needing to strengthen the laws to prevent CWD. How can it be bad to bait deer but ok for them to feed deer?

 

And the link to the email to send it to, http://www.dec.ny.gov/press/108581.html

[Grizz1219]

I'm all for less govt. in our pockets.. this is just BS, allowing them more control over something they shouldn't be controlling... 

[BizCT]

NY should just allow baiting and allow xbow full inclusion.

[sfoulkrod]

This is a great topic because it brings up an issue that is really important and I knew nothing about it before you addressed it. I had to look a lot of stuff up to get a handle on things and I'm a better man for it, thanks Four Season Whitetails.  

My gut feel...  Stock up on urine...

From what I read, CWD is a nasty deer killer that is spread via fluids & feces.  It seems there are defective proteins called prions that attack a deer's brain - it's 100% fatal and deer will act erratically and eventually waste away.  This is according to Dr. Schuler, who is a wildlife disease ecologiest.  She works at Cornell University's College of Vet. Medicine (local knowledge!).  According to her, these prions can also bind to soil particles and get taken up by plants and then eaten by deer years later, and there's no minimum safe dosage, so one prion molecule and that's all she wrote.  

When you think about deer farms that produce urine, it stands to reason that one prion-positive animal taints a huge supply (think dipping a ladle into a deer porta-potty) not to mention potentially infecting every deer on the farm.  Sadly, the symptoms of CWD take months to show, so unless the deer are tested every time before they urinate, there's no guarantee of purity.  Also, most of us can agree that companies often over state their quality control.  One more thing, CNY (my stomping ground) is now on the list of areas were CWD infected populations exist.  The data was updated this November 2016 by the CDW.ORG website http://cwd-info.org/map-chronic-wasting-disease-in-north-america/ 

So on the surface it seems like an easy law to pass.  Go Go government... 

I think pro-urine hunters have a few things going for them.  Firstly, NYS moves super slowly, which gives the scientists who are refuting theses claims to prove the experiments and conclusions are faulty or biased.  Researchers are far from reaching consensus...  There's a deer urine farm near me in Lyons, NY  - highly regarded in this area.  I initially felt bad for him, but then I started thinking about how prices might skyrocket due to an enormous black market demand.  

To be clear, experts don't agree that banning urine attractants will reduce the spread of CWD, so logic would dictate a wait and see.  But if you look at this from the eyes of a political legislator, it's low hanging fruit on the 'to do' list.  I think I just convinced myself to go stock up on deer piss.   

 

[growalot]

I've  had luck with real,wafers, synthetics....was it luck or did I just get lucky...who really knows unless the deer came in nose down on a scent drag....I've had them do that without a drag. The above post is right it will just increase sales through blk. market..human nature!

[NFA-ADK]

I do not use them that often, my buddy uses them all the time.  They do work but it would not affect me if it was banned. 

[doebuck1234]

Dont use it often but have a few times with mixed results.either way wouldnt matter to me but still ridiculous

[phade]

It's an overreach. Just a chance for the DEC to say they are on the progressive front of deer management, while barely being able to manage the deer population, the very foundation of their responsibilities. The powers that be can be more wrong than a weatherman and still hold their job without fear of losing it. Zero accountability. Same problem results in this particular action.

The previously noted baiting deer to medicate them, but ban urine and feeding to prevent CWD transmission, topics is pretty comical on face value, and downright scary when you stop to think about it.

 

[growalot]

Well said...

[Core]

3 hours ago, Biz-R-OWorld said:

NY should just allow baiting and allow xbow full inclusion.

Dang it, Biz-r-oworld!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

2 hours ago, sfoulkrod said:

This is a great topic because it brings up an issue that is really important and I knew nothing about it before you addressed it. I had to look a lot of stuff up to get a handle on things and I'm a better man for it, thanks Four Season Whitetails.  

My gut feel...  Stock up on urine...

From what I read, CWD is a nasty deer killer that is spread via fluids & feces.  It seems there are defective proteins called prions that attack a deer's brain - it's 100% fatal and deer will act erratically and eventually waste away.  This is according to Dr. Schuler, who is a wildlife disease ecologiest.  She works at Cornell University's College of Vet. Medicine (local knowledge!).  According to her, these prions can also bind to soil particles and get taken up by plants and then eaten by deer years later, and there's no minimum safe dosage, so one prion molecule and that's all she wrote.  

When you think about deer farms that produce urine, it stands to reason that one prion-positive animal taints a huge supply (think dipping a ladle into a deer porta-potty) not to mention potentially infecting every deer on the farm.  Sadly, the symptoms of CWD take months to show, so unless the deer are tested every time before they urinate, there's no guarantee of purity.  Also, most of us can agree that companies often over state their quality control.  One more thing, CNY (my stomping ground) is now on the list of areas were CWD infected populations exist.  The data was updated this November 2016 by the CDW.ORG website http://cwd-info.org/map-chronic-wasting-disease-in-north-america/ 

So on the surface it seems like an easy law to pass.  Go Go government... 

I think pro-urine hunters have a few things going for them.  Firstly, NYS moves super slowly, which gives the scientists who are refuting theses claims to prove the experiments and conclusions are faulty or biased.  Researchers are far from reaching consensus...  There's a deer urine farm near me in Lyons, NY  - highly regarded in this area.  I initially felt bad for him, but then I started thinking about how prices might skyrocket due to an enormous black market demand.  

To be clear, experts don't agree that banning urine attractants will reduce the spread of CWD, so logic would dictate a wait and see.  But if you look at this from the eyes of a political legislator, it's low hanging fruit on the 'to do' list.  I think I just convinced myself to go stock up on deer piss.   

 

All sounds good but lets remember that all deer farms in Ny state are 100% tested with every death.They have no incoming deer from any source. So how i must ask do you think CWD could show up on a Ny farm?  

That answer would be from an outside vector. So the state says we are CWD free so where could this vector come from?  

I totally understand the need and wish to not have CWD spreading around our landscape but to pick out one of the least possible vectors because of an agenda is far from being right. They have no science to back up their theory in urine containing prions in a natural state.

Now for black market i am not sure of all that. We will still draw and use urine but my point is that Ny state farmer, Hunter and Ny people all stand to gain if they yes did make it so only Ny whitetail urine could be used and sold. Ban urine coming in but only urine from out of state whitetails.   

But can we expect Ny to do the right or smart thing?

[sfoulkrod]

I hope so, I really do.  I have been impressed with many of NY's decisions, but to your point I have learned that we need to keep a close eye on them because like children if we don't they make stupid decisions.  The DEC page for voicing our concerns on this is unbelievably hard to navigate and I would have shared my 2 cents but it would have cost me too much time to get in there and do so (which I believe is intentional).  I mean, it's not the Dakota pipeline heh, but it begs the question, are they looking out for us here?