Crossbow/gun and whitetail population

[Doc]

31 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

They want exclude a weapon that in no way is a bow. They want a weapon that is like a bow included. In other words they want another type of bow but not a gun. The hypocrisy would be if they wanted to include one type of gun but not another. They want to use a different type of the same weapon all ready being used. Just like putting riffles into shotgun season. Different type of the same weapon used there too. Shotgun, riffle. Both guns both fire a projectile using gun powder as an energy. Both kill with shock and damage. Bow, crossbow. Both fire a projectile using stored energy in a string. Both kill by cutting and hemorrhaging. Where is the hypocrisy in wanting to  use a bow during bow season.

But they want to keep some hunters out of bow season, and that is just as exclusionary (selfish) as bowhunters wanting to keep crossbows out of bow season. The point is, when one decides to go the name-calling route, the same kind of rationale goes for them as well when they start adopting the same behavior. To say it applies to everyone but themselves is indeed hypocrisy. I don't give a damn about all the crap of comparing this to that.....exclusion is exclusion, and if that is to be labeled selfishness for bowhunters then the same has to be true for crossbow shooters. And that is about all that should be necessary to say about that.... lol.

[helmut in the bush]

Hey everyone, first post. I'm in Ohio. The reason I came creeping here is I have become a terrible deer hunter or, the deer in the areas I hunt have moved out or, got shot out. So I'm looking for new places to hunt, I was offered some private land in west NY to hunt, so here I am. A few years ago if you moved around and hunted different counties in Ohio, you could shoot 18 deer, only one could be a buck. I had a couple of real good spots to hunt, used to see deer all day long. Now your lucky to see one. Its kinda funny to see all the out of state people hunting like their Bone Collector pro staff and going home empty handed, and from far away, like Georgia, Florida, Maine, Vermont, PA and NY. Granted there are some big bucks taken, 2 were shot out of a stand I hunted 7 times during our gun season, one the same day. I think it comes down to the amount of Does taken out of the herd, breeders. Kinda like going to the bar and shooting all the chicks, if you do that your not GETTING LAID. I saw a graft between gun and bow kills over the years I will post when I find it, you'll see the increase of bow kills and decrease in gun kills. I don't shoot a crossbow, I shoot a compound, always have, my kids do, and I can only think of 3 other people that I hunt with that do. Everyone else uses crossbows. Not bashing them, just the way it is. I'm not a fan of eating venison, I like smokies, but I will not fill my freezer with it. I haven't shot a deer since 2008. My boys will shoot them, I'm good with that, if thing keep going the direction they are, the deer will be a thing of the past, like when I was a kid. In the 60's and 70's where I live it was a big deal to see a deer track, we hunted coons with dog's. Wasn't till the mid 80's that I started hunting deer, it was good once I started to figure it out a little, and stated to shoot some. It's kinda funny to look at the little racks I used to shoot. I'll post that gun bow kill graft when I find it. later 

[helmut in the bush]

11 minutes ago, helmut in the bush said:

Hey everyone, first post. I'm in Ohio. The reason I came creeping here is I have become a terrible deer hunter or, the deer in the areas I hunt have moved out or, got shot out. So I'm looking for new places to hunt, I was offered some private land in west NY to hunt, so here I am. A few years ago if you moved around and hunted different counties in Ohio, you could shoot 18 deer, only one could be a buck. I had a couple of real good spots to hunt, used to see deer all day long. Now your lucky to see one. Its kinda funny to see all the out of state people hunting like their Bone Collector pro staff and going home empty handed, and from far away, like Georgia, Florida, Maine, Vermont, PA and NY. Granted there are some big bucks taken, 2 were shot out of a stand I hunted 7 times during our gun season, one the same day. I think it comes down to the amount of Does taken out of the herd, breeders. Kinda like going to the bar and shooting all the chicks, if you do that your not GETTING LAID. I saw a graft between gun and bow kills over the years I will post when I find it, you'll see the increase of bow kills and decrease in gun kills. I don't shoot a crossbow, I shoot a compound, always have, my kids do, and I can only think of 3 other people that I hunt with that do. Everyone else uses crossbows. Not bashing them, just the way it is. I'm not a fan of eating venison, I like smokies, but I will not fill my freezer with it. I haven't shot a deer since 2008. My boys will shoot them, I'm good with that, if thing keep going the direction they are, the deer will be a thing of the past, like when I was a kid. In the 60's and 70's where I live it was a big deal to see a deer track, we hunted coons with dog's. Wasn't till the mid 80's that I started hunting deer, it was good once I started to figure it out a little, and stated to shoot some. It's kinda funny to look at the little racks I used to shoot. I'll post that gun bow kill graft when I find it. later 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

17 minutes ago, helmut in the bush said:

 

Welcome. That probably only tells half the story though. what is the annual harvest numbers for those years?

[stubby68]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

But they want to keep some hunters out of bow season, and that is just as exclusionary (selfish) as bowhunters wanting to keep crossbows out of bow season. The point is, when one decides to go the name-calling route, the same kind of rationale goes for them as well when they start adopting the same behavior. To say it applies to everyone but themselves is indeed hypocrisy. I don't give a damn about all the crap of comparing this to that.....exclusion is exclusion, and if that is to be labeled selfishness for bowhunters then the same has to be true for crossbow shooters. And that is about all that should be necessary to say about that.... lol.

       That are pushing for another bow to be used in bow season. Not pushing for some guns and not others. What they want is for bow hunters to be able to use the type of bow they want during the bow season. Saying no guns is not being a hypocrite. Bow season is just that bow season. There are some bow hunters who want crossbows all season. A hypocrite would be someone who does not want another weapon that works the same and kills the same as others that are included in that season. You are the hypocrite by saying you only want the type of bow that you use to be aloud in your season. They are not saying that they are saying bow season for bows gun season for guns. You are saying bow season for my bow. Everything stay out be it bow or gun.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

02-03--204000

03-04--198000

04-05--216000

05-06--201000

06-07--237000

07-08--232000

08-09--252000

09-10--261000

10-11--239000

11-12--220000

12-13--219000

13-14--192000

It seems like a fairly consistent harvest since 2002. 

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

If I lived in Ohio I personally would concentrate on taking my one buck with a bow or crossbow, seeing the gun season is so short, it only makes sense to see a rise in the archrey take IMO.. 

It would be interesting to see the buck to doe harvest ratios for each year that would accompany that graph..

 

[greg54]

I think those that believe a crossbow is a gun really need to be on some serious meds

[nodeerhere]

49 minutes ago, greg54 said:

I think those that believe a crossbow is a gun really need to be on some serious meds

I think those who think it's a bow are already on some meds!! 

[reeltime]

8 hours ago, stubby68 said:

            You don't think a flashlight in the woods or field in the middle of the night would draw attention. Especially on posted property. Easier to drop the deer where it stands. Drive away. Then come back an hour later grab deer and go. No tracking no flashlight. The sound of the shot is most times not even enjoy heard sense poachers wouldn't be doing this in view of a house being seen or heard is low.

actually after firing a shot at night with a gun DOES draw attention, and when they come back is generally when they get caught, with a bow or crossbow there is virtually no sound.  yes people still use a gun to poach at night but more and more are using quieter tools. years ago when lots of people ran coon dogs, fox dogs and just plain predator hunted shots were paid little attention as we heard them all the time, its not the case any more as few people run hounds today. 

if people are asleep and never would hear a bow shot its pretty easy to drop a person off in the dark, you don't need a spotlight to track a deer.

Have you never talked with a known poacher or an old timer who tells stories of how the use to do it.

more times than you can imagine.

A gun shot really does not attract much attention at night when people are in side there house and probably sleeping.

if you say so,  but ask some game wardens, sheriff deputies, state police how often they get reports of shots fired after dark during Oct. Nov. and early Dec.

Saying the crossbow causes more poaching is really grasping at straws. Any excuse to make they look bad.

I do not believe I said it CAUSES more poaching, I said its rapidly becoming the favored tool of poachers BECAUSE its quiet and can be shot like a gun.I don't "grasp at straws"

          Now if you are talking about hunting on posted land then that is different. Let's see gun makes noise land owner hears the shot on his land goes and checks poacher cought. Bow or crossbow make no noise user is in camo. Hard to see no noise to hear. Owner does not know they are there poacher goes free.  exactly

 

[reeltime]

8 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I don't see how legalization would effect the illegal use during poaching. Do you think that because it isn't a legal implement it would stop their using it at night to poach? Or does just owning one of these evil weapons push a person over the line and make them a poacher? 

 a poacher is going to poach no matter what and likely will use the most effective quietest weapon they can use to do so.  a .22 LR has probably been used more poaching at night than just about all of the other calibers combined.

btw who said the crossbow is an evil weapon?

[stubby68]

24 minutes ago, reeltime said:

 

             A flashlight in a field or the woods draws more attention to people then a single bang. And if they were heard and cops were called the response time is so long they would be back have the deer and be gone. If any call is made it is a low priority and checked on when they feel like. Deer are not jacked in towns or cities where the shots could mean any danger to someone. Low priority.

       I if you have talked with them you would know that a 22 is used to shoot the deer in the head. It is called a drop and go gun. Little noise. 

       I hunt with troopers sheriff's and ecos they say calls for shots at night are little to none.

           Funny how poachers only thought of using these ultimate poaching weapons after they were made legal to hunt with. Wonder why they never used them before. Try sticking one out a truck window then try it with a 22. Which is easier

[Bowshotmuzzleloader]

36 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

I think those who think it's a bow are already on some meds!! 

Put your money where your mouth is !!!! Use a crossbow during gun season if you think its a "gun",,, bet that will never happen and if you did Id be willing to bet that you wouldn't still be calling it a gun....

 

[BizCT]

Hiding in treestand with compound is, without a doubt, an easier method than hunting from the ground with xbow.


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[nodeerhere]

U people give me a headache! And for who ever the knucklehead who said us a crossbow during gun season is has no idea. I use my Hoyt often during gun seaon. I don't want to use a crossbow! I have no interest! All I hear on hear is a bunch of lazy hunters who want an easier way to kill deer then with a bow! Man! If u guys know what u were doing with a bow in the first place u wouldn't need a weapon that shoots further and faster! One that u can put on a rest! Strap optics too! Walk or sit around with it already cocked! I mean come on!! Wake up!! Just a bit!  sad!!!! 

[reeltime]

47 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

             A flashlight in a field or the woods draws more attention to people then a single bang. And if they were heard and cops were called the response time is so long they would be back have the deer and be gone. If any call is made it is a low priority and checked on when they feel like. Deer are not jacked in towns or cities where the shots could mean any danger to someone. Low priority.

       I if you have talked with them you would know that a 22 is used to shoot the deer in the head. It is called a drop and go gun. Little noise. 

       I hunt with troopers sheriff's and ecos they say calls for shots at night are little to none.

           Funny how poachers only thought of using these ultimate poaching weapons after they were made legal to hunt with. Wonder why they never used them before. Try sticking one out a truck window then try it with a 22. Which is easier

funny that this is being discussed about shots at night, just about an hour ago the sheriffs were dispatched to shots heard.   

 

[nodeerhere]

And do u crossbow hunters realize that the record books! The true record books don't even consider the crossbow to be a bow!!  please find me a minimum score for the crossbow from pope and young!!! 

[upstate]

13 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

And do u crossbow hunters realize that the record books! The true record books don't even consider the crossbow to be a bow!!  please find me a minimum score for the crossbow from pope and young!!! 

Many of us will never see a P&Y deer on the hoof, let alone kill one.  It's not why I hunt. 

Said it once, I'll say it again. 

I'm a bow hunter that doesn't care and doesn't buy any of the nonsense spouted off in here 

[nodeerhere]

16 minutes ago, upstate said:

Many of us will never see a P&Y deer on the hoof, let alone kill one.  It's not why I hunt. 

Said it once, I'll say it again. 

I'm a bow hunter that doesn't care and doesn't buy any of the nonsense spouted off in here 

Odviously u care some what or u wouldn't check the thread! And if ur hunting during the rut and never have seen a pope and young buck on the hoof then u better pick up sum books! Or put some more time in the woods! Scout! Something!!! I am not suggesting I see them every year but in the 20 yrs I've been bow hunting I've seen my fair share and finally got to harvest one. 

[upstate]

22 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

Odviously u care some what or u wouldn't check the thread! And if ur hunting during the rut and never have seen a pope and young buck on the hoof then u better pick up sum books! Or put some more time in the woods! Scout! Something!!! I am not suggesting I see them every year but in the 20 yrs I've been bow hunting I've seen my fair share and finally got to harvest one. 

you're making assumptions now, 

First, we get notices when somebody responds to my post I get notified. Plus, I keep checking to see if somebody actually makes a post that isn't self serving. 

Second, I have seen, hunted, missed and harvested some pretty big bucks. Have had a couple scored, but not at my request because that's not why I hunt. 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

 a poacher is going to poach no matter what and likely will use the most effective quietest weapon they can use to do so.  a .22 LR has probably been used more poaching at night than just about all of the other calibers combined.
btw who said the crossbow is an evil weapon?

It must be evil. According to some here it will single handedly ruin bow season and account for a huge spike in poaching.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

And do u crossbow hunters realize that the record books! The true record books don't even consider the crossbow to be a bow!!  please find me a minimum score for the crossbow from pope and young!!! 

I guess if you measure success by inches I can understand you approach to this topic.

[grampy]

28 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

Odviously u care some what or u wouldn't check the thread! And if ur hunting during the rut and never have seen a pope and young buck on the hoof then u better pick up sum books! Or put some more time in the woods! Scout! Something!!! I am not suggesting I see them every year but in the 20 yrs I've been bow hunting I've seen my fair share and finally got to harvest one. 

Probably would have killed a couple more p and y bucks, had you been hunting with a crossbow. Just sayin.......

[nodeerhere]

18 minutes ago, grampy said:

Probably would have killed a couple more p and y bucks, had you been hunting with a crossbow. Just sayin.......

I'll NEVER KNOW!!!!

[grampy]

36 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

I'll NEVER KNOW!!!!

Just try it! You might like it!.........lol