Crossbow/gun and whitetail population

[phade]

2 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Full implementation of the crossbow, during archery season, helps the Ohio DNR to control the deer population across the state.  The crossbow is significantly more efficient, especially for killing antlerless deer, than is the vertical bow (at least it seems that we are now almost all in agreement on that).   It can also be deployed in greater numbers than vertical bows, because less time and effort are required to attain proficiency with it.   Greater numbers and greater efficiency mean more deer kills.

Hunters want as many deer as possible, while motorists, farmers, and foresters want less.   There is a balance in between, that is best for everyone and for the deer.   Allowing the crossbow throughout archery season would be a big help to the DEC in achieving that balance.  If the deer population in a particular zone is too low, then less antlerless permits would be issued.   The biggest problem the DEC has today, is controlling the deer population in zones where the deer population is too high.  Even with almost unlimited antlerless permits, the deer numbers remain out of control.  Some folks are being selfish by fighting to keep from giving the DEC a tool (the crossbow) which would help them do their job.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

I'm pretty far off from agreeing on the crossbow efficiency to solve our problems - the real factor is the Indian and the hands that bind.

The crossbows will do nothing in the NY areas that have the toughest overpopulation problems to manage. Ohio's use of the xbow is a non-factor for the most part because they offer more responsive tag alloactions, even proactive at times (sheesh, wouldn't that be nice), and the state of Ohio for the most part is much less bound legislatively and by their general POV to managing deer numbers.

The problem for NY is access. Beyond private property challenges, many of the suburban and urban environments on the fringe of heavy ag here have restrictions on even bow hunting. You can't hunt what you can't hunt. Ohio - almost any town with a deer issue - has urban hunt programs or makes allowances for arrow discharge (ie hunting). Everything from tax incentives to cultural support of hunting also opens private lands that historically do not here in NY. Urban hunt programs here are few and far between and when in existence, are "ruled" to death so much that impact on deer numbers is given a glass ceiling.

The implement will do very little to solve the problems you believe it will. Hot dog down a hallway mindset.

[wolc123]

I can't speak for others but I am quite certain that I would not have any trouble filling all of my antlerless tags if I could start with the crossbow on October 1.    

[phade]

7 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I can't speak for others but I am quite certain that I would not have any trouble filling all of my antlerless tags if I could start with the crossbow on October 1.    

I could also fill all of my antlerless tags in these overpopulation WMUs if I could throw spears or rocks at them legally, what's your point?

If you are actively hunting in an overpopulation WMU, I find it hard for people not to be successful at filling tags unless its their fault or choosing, even with a vertical bow. Saying the crossbow is the savior to overpopulation is way off the mark because it isn't even close to being the lowest hole in that bucket (problem).

[wolc123]

Spears and rocks are not legal hunting weapons in NY.  I am a very strict interpreter of the rules and never knowingly break one.   Hopefully they let us use crossbows next season.   I have struggled killing does with my vertical bow because they are always in groups and fooling several sets of eyes when making the draw is tough.   The crossbow get around that problem.  Relative silence and "no draw" make it the nearly perfect weapon for killing does in these overrun areas.   

[nodeerhere]

14 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Spears and rocks are not legal hunting weapons in NY.  I am a very strict interpreter of the rules and never knowingly break one.   Hopefully they let us use crossbows next season.   I have struggled killing does with my vertical bow because they are always in groups and fooling several sets of eyes when making the draw is tough.   The crossbow get around that problem.  Relative silence and "no draw" make it the nearly perfect weapon for killing does in these overrun areas.   

Basically u want an easier weapon to use. U guys are a joke! A little challenge and u guys scream u want an easier weapon. How about putting ur big boy pants on and stand up to the challenge! Get a blind, hide better. There is a bunch of stuff u could do. Instead take the easy way out and start crying u need a easier way! Ha! 

 

[Buckstopshere]

17 minutes ago, phade said:

I could also fill all of my antlerless tags in these overpopulation WMUs if I could throw spears or rocks at them legally, what's your point?

If you are actively hunting in an overpopulation WMU, I find it hard for people not to be successful at filling tags unless its their fault or choosing, even with a vertical bow. Saying the crossbow is the savior to overpopulation is way off the mark because it isn't even close to being the lowest hole in that bucket (problem).

Never implied that it was the "savior" just that it seems to be a logical, judicious move that would help to a lesser or greater degree, the problem areas. Certainly, there are other, perhaps more critical points to address like access. But hey, it seems like opening those specific units to crossbow would be a better alternative than the two-week buck moratorium the DEC tried year before last. 

[ncountry]

23 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Hopefully they let us use crossbows next season.   I have struggled killing does with my vertical bow because they are always in groups and fooling several sets of eyes when making the draw is tough.   The crossbow get around that problem.  Relative silence and "no draw" make it the nearly perfect weapon for killing does in these overrun areas.   

Really.. That's the whole point , it's hunting not target practice. Improve your skills not the weapon.

[nodeerhere]

7 minutes ago, ncountry said:

Really.. That's the whole point , it's hunting not target practice. Improve your skills not the weapon.

THANK YOU

[growalot]

Can't disagree with that...even I would  fill a few tags that first week...before they hit the sanctuaries and go incompletely nocturnal...I won't shoot past 35 yrds but having shot and killed deer with my cross bow,know there are deer I pass shots on with my compound, I would not with the cross bow and with confidence.

Edited December 31, 2016 by growalot

[wolc123]

Would it increase or decrease the challenge if there was less deer?   How about if there were more hunters?  If you hunt for the "challenge", then shouldn't you support full inclusion for that reason?

I will admit that I do not hunt for challenge.  I always try  and use the best equipment I can afford to help minimize the challenge.   Meat is my primary driver, always has been and always will be.    The more efficiently I can make clean kills the better.       

[Four Season Whitetail's]

30 minutes ago, ncountry said:

Really.. That's the whole point , it's hunting not target practice. Improve your skills not the weapon.

Their return answer to this will be less hunters in the woods every year so they need to make it easier for anyone that wants to kill one,   Kill One!

[nodeerhere]

23 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Would it increase or decrease the challenge if there was less deer?   How about if there were more hunters?  If you hunt for the "challenge", then shouldn't you support full inclusion for that reason?

I will admit that I do not hunt for challenge.  I always try  and use the best equipment I can afford to help minimize the challenge.   Meat is my primary driver, always has been and always will be.    The more efficiently I can make clean kills the better.       

Well smart guy! If meat is what u are truly after then wouldn't u want more deer around so u could fill ur freezer? 

[wolc123]

It has been a long time since I struggled to fill my own freezer but there are still a lot of hungry folks out there who could use some venison.   Full inclusion of the crossbow would make it a lot easier for me to help them get some, or for them to legally get it for themselves.

55 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

Well smart guy! If meat is what u are truly after then wouldn't u want more deer around so u could fill ur freezer? 

 

[nodeerhere]

Man U are all over the place with your answers and comments! All you know is you want to kill as many deer as u possibly can. And the easiest way possible! U call urself a sportsman. U aren't a sportsman u are the kinda guy that gives us a bad name. It's people like u is why I don't want crossbows in the woods

[wolc123]

You will still be very welcome in OUR woods with your longbow, recurve, or compound.   I don't mind sharing, especially with trophy-hunters who pass on many of the "good-eaters".         

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Man U are all over the place with your answers and comments! All you know is you want to kill as many deer as u possibly can. And the easiest way possible! U call urself a sportsman. U aren't a sportsman u are the kinda guy that gives us a bad name. It's people like u is why I don't want crossbows in the woods

Actually I think your approach and vocal opinions geared at cutting others down frame you as the type that give sportsmen a bad name.

[nodeerhere]

39 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Actually I think your approach and vocal opinions geared at cutting others down frame you as the type that give sportsmen a bad name.

And how is this? Cause I don't shoot every deer I see? Because I hunt with a bow and enjoy that time in the woods without a bunch of knuckleheads ruining it? Hmmm... I mean I would really love for u to tell me how I'm a bad sportsman and how I give hunting a bad name! Please!!! 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

And how is this? Cause I don't shoot every deer I see? Because I hunt with a bow and enjoy that time in the woods without a bunch of knuckleheads ruining it? Hmmm... I mean I would really love for u to tell me how I'm a bad sportsman and how I give hunting a bad name! Please!!! 

Case in point

[nodeerhere]

Ok then!  Here is the sad reality of it! U lazy clowns want an easier way to shoot deer so u can apparently fill everybody's freezers u know. How about putting a little work in. I give hunting a bad name and u can't even tell me how! It's like I'm talking to a bunch of ten yr olds on here! U guys seriously make me laugh. 

[wolc123]

10 minutes ago, nodeerhere said:

And how is this? Cause I don't shoot every deer I see? Because I hunt with a bow and enjoy that time in the woods without a bunch of knuckleheads ruining it? Hmmm... I mean I would really love for u to tell me how I'm a bad sportsman and how I give hunting a bad name! Please!!! 

I would never call you bad, but you do sound a little bitter.  How is that helping your cause?  Have you ever drank poison and expected it to hurt those you are mad at?   

I suggest you kick back and let it go.   Someday you might be thankful for full inclusion.   It might allow you to enjoy a few extra years of "quite-time" archery hunting with your kids and grandkids.   Sharing the deer and the woods with others who may not be as big and tough as you is not such a bad thing.    

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Ok then!  Here is the sad reality of it! U lazy clowns want an easier way to shoot deer so u can apparently fill everybody's freezers u know. How about putting a little work in. I give hunting a bad name and u can't even tell me how! It's like I'm talking to a bunch of ten yr olds on here! U guys seriously make me laugh. 

Funny how thing is I do bow hunt. I live to bow hunt. I have no intentions of buying a crossbow unless it opened up more opportunity to hunt. I scout hard. Hunt hard and look for bucks 3.5 or older. I also gun hunt. Difference between you and me. I won't let anyone else's choices dictate my satisfaction or happiness. Their legal choices are theirs. The won't change how or why I hunt. So I am all for them having what they are happy with.

[nodeerhere]

Let me ask u this. Do u enjoy gun season? Honest question 

[moog5050]

These threads always take the same road. It's pretty clear that not everyone will agree on this subject and calling other hunters lazy doesn't help anyone's cause.   I hunted the last two bow seasons with a bare bow recurve.  Yes, it takes more effort to effectively kill deer with that bow than a xbow or compound for that matter.  But who am I to sit on my high horse and degrade others for choosing an xbow or compound.   I am happy to share the woods with others that don't have the time, dedication or just desire to shoot a recurve.  And, if it avoids wounded deer, all the better.  I still hunt with the compound when I feel like it too.  And on the poachers issue, poachers will find a way to poach xbow or not IMO.   Xbows will neither save nor ruin archery season.   It hasn't seemed to have had much impact since it was allowed in the last two weeks over the last two years.   Lots of other deer management issues that need to be addressed that have greater impacts than xbow.   

In the end, its probably just time to agree to disagree.   Have a Happy New Year.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Let me ask u this. Do u enjoy gun season? Honest question 

I do but for a different reason than bow season. Gun season does account for the most of my doe take but it is because of the tradition of it. The deer camp social aspect. I grew up since 8 in the gun woods with my father, uncles and cousins. Many great memories with them. The bow hunting is more of a solo endeavor. It's more serious if that make sense

[nodeerhere]

Makes plenty of sense. I gun Hunt for the camp time with friends and my son. I live to bow hunt. I mean if I could work everyday during the wk all yr to have all bow season off I would. All I'm saying is I like it the way it is. I truly think full inclusion of crossbow would have a negative impact. I just want to continue to be able to enjoy bow seaon. That's all. If that makes any sense