Mature Bucks

[buckman4c]

On ‎3‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 11:03 PM, Death From Above said:

A lot of good suggestions in this thread.  Especially agree with all the attention to scouting and trail cameras. 

I think that TIME has a lot to do with it.  If a hunter wants to count on more than just luck then I think TIME can be a key.  Most of my friends say I'm the luckiest hunter they know, so I choose luck every time if possible, but I think that my "luck" might have a little more to do with TIME.  Lots of time scouting.  Lots of time with cameras scouting for you.  Lots of time hunting.  I probably spend more time hunting than most due to owning my own business, so I have the ability to put lots of time in on stand.  The more time that I hunt, the more I observe, the more I can adjust.  That said, too much TIME spent in one area can be very bad when hunting older bucks.  In fact I think that one of the biggest keys is to resist - no matter how hard it is - hunting some of your best stands too much, or even at all before the time is right.  I agree that the first time in a stand is likely the best opportunity to kill a deer.  So why so many people hunt their best stands before the bucks let their guard down during the rut is sometimes confusing to me.  Try keeping one of your best stands fresh and don't hunt it until the rut hits, then hunt it with the best wind.  This strategy almost always seems to provide me with my best hunts of the season.

I know that not everyone can put lots of time in like I mentioned above, but I think it is certainly a large reason that some people seem to kill good bucks every year.  If you can't increase the time you can put in on stand, then I think that the time put in scouting becomes even more important.

 

 

  Great information and I will/won't agree?? LOL! This is one of the things I picked up from watching Dan Infalts videos (again). But this time, I watched a hunt I hadn't seen previously. What I observed was a very aggressive yet calculated hunt. He started in "observation" stands, then kept adjusting his stand location until he stalked in and killed the bedded buck. He hunted for a particular buck for I forget how many days consecutive, think he missed one or two days.

  What I found intriguing was no matter how much pressure he put on these deer, they continued to use the area until he finally pulled it off. He actually got scented by the big buck during one of the hunts and yet the big fella hung around. He spooked other sizeable bucks and doe while pinning down exactly where the big fella was. Finally, there was at least one other hunter during the entire time frame also putting pressure on these deer.

  In summary, what I took from this example was if the doe are there so will be the big bucks. Even when he bumped the older bucks they hung around because the doe stayed. The doe didn't seem bothered by the pressure either. I'll also say, he didn't stay in any one spot in the area. He did use the same stands here and there but much of the time he tried different stands. Based on this approach one could assume he kept the deer guessing. One could argue either way that if he had selected one killer spot he could access undetected he could have continued hunting that spot. Maybe the deer wouldn't have changed their travel or eventually the buck would have come by the stand?? But he didn't wait for that to happen in this case.

  I on the other hand will hunt the same stand when it's hot so long as I'm not knowingly bumping deer or it suddenly cools off. Then I change spots or give it a few days rest. Now, I will make a counter argument despite his obvious success. I have studied long and hard the PSU deer study involving buck movement. They have quite a few bucks radio collared and they monitor their movements. They then post videos of these movements during various stages of the fall. Three major things stand out. #1. Early in the fall, their movements are concentrated in a core area with other movement in a home range. #2. As the fall progresses the movement expands, is all over the home range and sometimes outside #3. The movement is rather unpredictable except:

  They prefer bedding high on predominately south facing slopes especially during rifle season and secondly, most of them move more than once during daylight hours even during rifle season. This is important for hunters in general but more so for stand hunters. Why? Because if their movements are mostly unpredictable, stand hunting one location may not be a bad thing especially if your seeing other deer traveling through. Sooner or later that buck will cruise through the location, you just don't know exactly when. If they move more than once a day, being on stand as much as possible will only increase the opportunity. Knowing where they prefer to bed can put you in close proximity for when they do move.

  Obviously through scouting, you can break things down more precisely but I must say after reviewing countless hours of video, picking "one" killer spot is difficult at best based on their movements. For those of you who have found a "killer" spot, don't tell a soul, don't try a different spot etc. because finding one is a needle in a haystack. Suppose this is another reason tracking may just be the best tactical approach for unpredictability.  I would suggest watching the PSU deer study videos. Search "PSU deer study" and look for buck or doe movement videos. Their way down the list now a days.

[buckman4c]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 2:10 PM, chas0218 said:

You said you are shooting 2.5 year old bucks, that might be your problem. You need to pass on the 2.5 year olds for them to get older and bigger. I would hunt food sources in the evening, if you don't have any food sources where you hunt that would be your problem. The best time to kill a mature buck is during the rut when they drop their guard. There are a ton of variables that play into seeing a mature buck before you can kill one. Play the wind and have more than one option, if the wind isn't good for that area don't go there no matter how bad you want to hunt it. If you educate that mature buck to your patterns it won't be long until he moves onto a new property/area. Here are the key things I have done to kill a mature buck.

1. Scout-Do a lot of pre-season scouting taking notes of where you have saw sign of big deer. Usually deer scat from big deer is lumped together more solid. The size of the prints is another good indicator of the size of the animal the further in the mud it goes the heavier the animal. 
2. Stand, Still hunting, or stalking-Figure out if you are going to elevate yourself off the ground to give you a better field of view or plan on stalking. Either way know the area how thermals on the hills work, and wind direction of the area. In an area I hunt it can be a west wind but the way the hills fall it usually ends up being a northwest. Only real way to know this is by hunting the area for a couple seasons or frequent trips to the area.
3. Don't over hunt 1 location! This is huge, if you don't see any deer for a couple sits go somewhere else to let the area cool down. The only time I have ever hunted an area back to back for more than 3 or 4 days is if it rains at night or in between sits. The rain will wash away your scent after you leave so it was like you were never there. When I say rain I mean a soaking rain or hours long drizzle.
4. Know your surroundings and the direction the deer travel I know this sounds obvious but not all deer travel the same and the bigger smarter ones don't do what the rest do. The majority of people that hunt hills/mountains say deer travel top to down morning to dusk, don't take this for gospel probably half of the mature deer I have shot were crossing parallel to the hill/mountain. This is where the scouting comes in.
5. Hunt area where there are big bucks-another obvious one but if the people in the area shoot anything that moves most likely there won't be any "mature" bucks in the vicinity. They get big by being smart and being in an area that gets shot all to crap isn't smart.
6. Food Sources-This goes along with the scouting but worth mentioning as its own entity. You need to figure out the majority of the diet of deer in that area. No AG fields means tree nuts, so you need to find oaks, beech, hickory, maybe even wild apples and grapes. Deer love soft maple buds/tree tops so if there are a lot of recently downed trees you might be in for a pleasant surprise.
7. Find the doe-If you are planning on hunting during the rut you need to find the doe otherwise you won't see any bucks. In the beginning of rut deer will travel very long distances to find a early hot doe. Once they do they generally don't leave her at least till he has had his way with her. 

Nothing I can tell you will beat experience the more time in the woods the more you will learn. 

Great input!!

  Answer to the first suggestion is I'm entering my fifth year of passing and eating tag soup. In the past, I did shoot immature bucks for more personal reasons like time available but even at that I would go a couple to a few years without. A good example would be killing one in 1996 and waiting until 2004 to kill the next. I couldn't resist in 2004 being the first day of rifle and I had just come back from killing my only mature buck in Virginia. First and only time I killed two buck in a year.

  The scouting suggestion is becoming a huge, huge deal for me. I've been pretty consistent in years past but the past three or so years I've really stepped up my late winter, early spring scouting. This year by far is my best effort. It's all a time management thing with other important obligations after hunting season ends if you know what I mean. This year will be by far my best effort. The weather has cooperated too which has been a huge help.

  Understanding the wind and thermals us what I see as biggest challenge. Plan on scooping up some milk weed.

  These deer are nut eaters and crop eaters. I'm trying my best to get permission for access from the ag side of the mountain. This would be hugely helpful. Essentially, I'm relegated to finding the active white oaks on the ridges, benches etc..

  There are big bucks in this area as I posted previously. Every year hunters knock down 140" plus bucks and (3) in the past exceeded 170".

  This years scouting is helping greatly to pinpoint preferred doe bedding locations and I prefer hunting the pre-rut/rut stage. I hunt sparingly during the early season, preferring ideal conditions like a cold front etc..

  My pervious post addresses overhunting one location. I'm not sold on this thought. I'm beginning to believe as I stated if you have good action and your not getting picked off, why move? Unpredictability of buck movements might pay off with staying where the action is happening.

Thanks again.

Edited March 12, 2017 by buckman4c

[NFA-ADK]

I love that study!!!  For those not familiar with the study here is the link.  If you are interested in deer movement this is the study you should check out.  Very informative and knowledgeable!

http://ecosystems.psu.edu/research/projects/deer

 

[buckman4c]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 8:58 PM, NFA-ADK said:

Your description is amazing, you have me captivated!  FYI : I do not consider myself an expert just passionate and knowledgeable.  I always considered 3 plus year old deer mature as they really seem to wise up from this age on and have full skeletal development even though I know a fully mature deer is usually considered 5+ for full muscle development.  I also know mature can depend on area as sometimes a 2.5 is all that is around.  Getting knowledge from other more experienced hunters here is simply priceless and the depth of knowledge is always valuable as experience is evident.

Last years spot sounds like another good location I would keep that and check other possible spots to set up.  This second spot sounds like a great location where your bridge is located yet it also sounds like it is close to the bucks bedding area like you said.  The rhododendron where the rubs are is another possible bedding area as they love the thick cover.  This sounds like a spot you might want to avoid and try and hunt the outer area's to prevent detection, until the wind is perfect along with timing, sounds really hard to do and will be almost impossible if it is where he beds as stated before.  Trail cams as stated would help otherwise you would need to scout it by posting or getting up in the stand early and late day just to see what activity is around.  From what you have posted it sounds like you are passionate and have a good understanding of what is happening in the woods...  You can read sign well!  I would do as others have stated and try some other spots so you have options for different winds.  Your speed scouting is working and it sounds like you have a good read on the sign, keep looking for more rubs or similar area to what you are describing now and you will find more "good" locations to hunt.   Your experience is evident and your knowledge of these areas will only improve.

 Tactics and busting deer when entering in the dark.  One of the best calling technics I have used is a return snort at any alarmed deer when entering in the dark and especially in cover.  Simply put it settles their nerves and if you are not directly spotted often results in them coming to you.  I push as much air as possible through closed teeth usually mimicking the snort or louder.  If not in the location or stand I usually will do a swift run to the area mimicking a fleeing deer.  This has worked well to keep deer in an area you need to get into undetected or detected as another deer I should say.

  It sounds like you do use a passive mode of hunting, find another spot you can try aggressive tactics.  You might find something that works even if you have to penetrate an area like the bridge during peak rut with some doe in heat scent and some doe in heat calls.  Sometimes taking a calculated risk can reap results.  Don't be afraid to try something different especially during the rut as anything can happen. 

Love the topic, looking forward to your next report!!!

Another great post and thanks for the compliments.

[buckman4c]

SCOUTING UPDATE:

  I'll "try" not to make this post too extensive. Good luck with that!!

  We received an inch of snow, Thursday into Friday ending about 5:00 pm. I hit the are I'm scouting at 9:30 Saturday morning (yesterday).

  The wind was NW 10-15, clear and sunny. I began by walking the military crest of the south facing ridge. There's a bench 3/4 the way up the ridge. I found (2) obvious bedding areas and two different trails leading on to the bench. Closer to the point that drops into a hollow I found another bedding location on the bench near the top. I also found (2) beds lower on the point. Working north along the slope of the hollow, I found another bedding area in and amongst some pines. Continuing North, I went to the north ridge and checked a high spot to the east of a saddle (the hollow feeds almost to the north ridge and creates a saddle). The high spot was another bedding location. I then walked west along the north ridge line through the saddle. The east edge of the saddle is thick with pine and rhododendron. A couple more beds found in this location. From there I continued west and dropped down to a bench. There was very limited fresh deer sign along the bench but I did find a rub line heading north and down toward the cuts. This would also be North of a high point along the north ridge. I then circled up on to the high area and found additional bedding. This high spot has a south facing slope above the rhododendron flat. This is the location the big buck rub line would indicate to be one of his bedding locations.

  As suspected, the "bridge" travel area I spoke of previously is nearly smack dab in the middle between as I count (6) bedding areas. My phone app. was especially helpful at showing the big rubs as being in a "line", how the bedding areas are distributed and concentrated deer sign of tracks, feeding etc..

  The one thing that is going to be most challenging is once again the wind. At some point I will have to get up in a tree or two with prevailing winds to see what happens. I was hoping by getting in there at the time I did, I would also "feel" the thermals. I did on the south facing slope feel the calmness and lift. In other areas though it was unpredictable and couldn't tell. I imagine snow effects thermals as well?? When I was on the flat and neared the high spots along both side hills I could feel the wind switching. I actually got a lesson on this as I was slipping toward the north ridge. The wind was NW (in my face). But when I was about 80 yards from a high spot and saddle, I could feel the wind switching. I used my binos to check a "brown" spot and saw a doe standing on top of the high spot. She just stood there looking and looking, nose up. She knew something was amiss and kept searching until I finally walked toward her and she and another that was bedded behind trees bounded over the ridge.

 Despite finding all these beds and checking just about everyone of them I didn't find any sheds nor during my walk did I find any unusually large prints. I found suspected buck prints slightly larger than others with dew prints but they weren't obviously larger.

  One other thing I unfortunately did find was a game camera. I knew I wouldn't be alone in the area with it being public but at least I have an idea of a trail he focused on for last season.

  Probably the most important lesson I learned was how I should be able to access this area from multiple points and disturb the least number of deer. At least I think so anyway. Now I just need to find the time to climb a tree or two with a smoke bomb or milk weed especially in the "bridge" area to see how the wind and thermals react.

[Buckmaster7600]

SCOUTING UPDATE:
  I'll "try" not to make this post too extensive. Good luck with that!!
  We received an inch of snow, Thursday into Friday ending about 5:00 pm. I hit the are I'm scouting at 9:30 Saturday morning (yesterday).
  The wind was NW 10-15, clear and sunny. I began by walking the military crest of the south facing ridge. There's a bench 3/4 the way up the ridge. I found (2) obvious bedding areas and two different trails leading on to the bench. Closer to the point that drops into a hollow I found another bedding location on the bench near the top. I also found (2) beds lower on the point. Working north along the slope of the hollow, I found another bedding area in and amongst some pines. Continuing North, I went to the north ridge and checked a high spot to the east of a saddle (the hollow feeds almost to the north ridge and creates a saddle). The high spot was another bedding location. I then walked west along the north ridge line through the saddle. The east edge of the saddle is thick with pine and rhododendron. A couple more beds found in this location. From there I continued west and dropped down to a bench. There was very limited fresh deer sign along the bench but I did find a rub line heading north and down toward the cuts. This would also be North of a high point along the north ridge. I then circled up on to the high area and found additional bedding. This high spot has a south facing slope above the rhododendron flat. This is the location the big buck rub line would indicate to be one of his bedding locations.
  As suspected, the "bridge" travel area I spoke of previously is nearly smack dab in the middle between as I count (6) bedding areas. My phone app. was especially helpful at showing the big rubs as being in a "line", how the bedding areas are distributed and concentrated deer sign of tracks, feeding etc..
  The one thing that is going to be most challenging is once again the wind. At some point I will have to get up in a tree or two with prevailing winds to see what happens. I was hoping by getting in there at the time I did, I would also "feel" the thermals. I did on the south facing slope feel the calmness and lift. In other areas though it was unpredictable and couldn't tell. I imagine snow effects thermals as well?? When I was on the flat and neared the high spots along both side hills I could feel the wind switching. I actually got a lesson on this as I was slipping toward the north ridge. The wind was NW (in my face). But when I was about 80 yards from a high spot and saddle, I could feel the wind switching. I used my binos to check a "brown" spot and saw a doe standing on top of the high spot. She just stood there looking and looking, nose up. She knew something was amiss and kept searching until I finally walked toward her and she and another that was bedded behind trees bounded over the ridge.
 Despite finding all these beds and checking just about everyone of them I didn't find any sheds nor during my walk did I find any unusually large prints. I found suspected buck prints slightly larger than others with dew prints but they weren't obviously larger.
  One other thing I unfortunately did find was a game camera. I knew I wouldn't be alone in the area with it being public but at least I have an idea of a trail he focused on for last season.
  Probably the most important lesson I learned was how I should be able to access this area from multiple points and disturb the least number of deer. At least I think so anyway. Now I just need to find the time to climb a tree or two with a smoke bomb or milk weed especially in the "bridge" area to see how the wind and thermals react.

I give you a lot of credit, you're certainly putting your homework in! I always thought tracking was the hardest way to kill a mature buck but after reading your posts I think you have me beat, hell all I do is walk a lot.


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[Death From Above]

On ‎3‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 9:43 AM, buckman4c said:

  Great information and I will/won't agree?? LOL! This is one of the things I picked up from watching Dan Infalts videos (again). But this time, I watched a hunt I hadn't seen previously. What I observed was a very aggressive yet calculated hunt. He started in "observation" stands, then kept adjusting his stand location until he stalked in and killed the bedded buck. He hunted for a particular buck for I forget how many days consecutive, think he missed one or two days.

  What I found intriguing was no matter how much pressure he put on these deer, they continued to use the area until he finally pulled it off. He actually got scented by the big buck during one of the hunts and yet the big fella hung around. He spooked other sizeable bucks and doe while pinning down exactly where the big fella was. Finally, there was at least one other hunter during the entire time frame also putting pressure on these deer.

  In summary, what I took from this example was if the doe are there so will be the big bucks. Even when he bumped the older bucks they hung around because the doe stayed. The doe didn't seem bothered by the pressure either. I'll also say, he didn't stay in any one spot in the area. He did use the same stands here and there but much of the time he tried different stands. Based on this approach one could assume he kept the deer guessing. One could argue either way that if he had selected one killer spot he could access undetected he could have continued hunting that spot. Maybe the deer wouldn't have changed their travel or eventually the buck would have come by the stand?? But he didn't wait for that to happen in this case.

  I on the other hand will hunt the same stand when it's hot so long as I'm not knowingly bumping deer or it suddenly cools off. Then I change spots or give it a few days rest. Now, I will make a counter argument despite his obvious success. I have studied long and hard the PSU deer study involving buck movement. They have quite a few bucks radio collared and they monitor their movements. They then post videos of these movements during various stages of the fall. Three major things stand out. #1. Early in the fall, their movements are concentrated in a core area with other movement in a home range. #2. As the fall progresses the movement expands, is all over the home range and sometimes outside #3. The movement is rather unpredictable except:

  They prefer bedding high on predominately south facing slopes especially during rifle season and secondly, most of them move more than once during daylight hours even during rifle season. This is important for hunters in general but more so for stand hunters. Why? Because if their movements are mostly unpredictable, stand hunting one location may not be a bad thing especially if your seeing other deer traveling through. Sooner or later that buck will cruise through the location, you just don't know exactly when. If they move more than once a day, being on stand as much as possible will only increase the opportunity. Knowing where they prefer to bed can put you in close proximity for when they do move.

  Obviously through scouting, you can break things down more precisely but I must say after reviewing countless hours of video, picking "one" killer spot is difficult at best based on their movements. For those of you who have found a "killer" spot, don't tell a soul, don't try a different spot etc. because finding one is a needle in a haystack. Suppose this is another reason tracking may just be the best tactical approach for unpredictability.  I would suggest watching the PSU deer study videos. Search "PSU deer study" and look for buck or doe movement videos. Their way down the list now a days.

 

I agree with what you are saying, but I think it depends a bit on the approach you utilize and the method of hunting you choose.  My mention about keeping the best stands I have fresh for the right time really helps if applied in the following ways:

1.  I save the best stands for the rut that are closest to bedding areas or high travel corridors between bedding.  These are not stands that I want to use for doe harvest or near food sources.  These might be closer to sanctuary areas on private property.  Might be much harder to do this on public land as in my experience a lot of deer sign attracts hunters regardless of what that area the deer use the area for.

2.  This is more important for a stand hunter, but not someone who likes to get on the ground to stalk or still hunt like I think your example from the video might demonstrate.  I probably am better suited to make suggestions to stand hunting, as I am largely a bow hunter.

Still, I completely agree with your suggestion of being fluid, as I have killed more good bucks as a result of observation, and then moving stands based on what I see, than keeping out of a stand until the rut like I suggested above.  I just think keeping a stand extremely fresh is an underused tactic, and almost always provides some of my best and most exciting hunts of the year when I finally decide to dive in and use those stands.

If you enjoy reading, watching, or absorbing deer hunting videos, and knowledge, I suggest checking out Bill Winke’s “Midwest Whitetail”.  Personally, I think he’s the best out there, bar none.  He took his award-winning show off the cable TV stations and went to an internet based platform that is widely popular.  Not sure if there are many others out there who have a following like he does, so I know this isn't a well kept secret.

As it applies to your scenario, I like how this past year they set up an entire video blog about a group of three or four guys who hunted solely on public land.  Granted, that is based in Iowa, but it addresses how to hunt more pressured deer and adjust to other hunters as well.  These video logs show just about everything from summer scouting, stand selection, trail cameras, hunting, shed hunting after the season, and scouting for other hunter’s habits as well.  Think there is some good stuff in there for other public land hunters.  Add to this that the majority of this content shows up on their site just hours to days right after it happens, it is almost like live reality TV.  Good stuff, and there are years and years of archives. 

 

[buckman4c]

Been a long time!

I finally knocked down a mature buck here in my home State of Pa. Killed him the second Monday of rifle season. Friend and I still hunted toward one another along the "military crest" of a ridge. He bumped a bunch of deer and this beauty came along. Forty yard quartering to shot with the .270 dropped him in his tracks. Elated to say the least! A lot of luck involved but I did work hard to create some luck. Want to thank everyone for their input back when I started this topic. Sorry the photo came out sideways. I tried fixing it but had no luck. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by buckman4c

[nyslowhand]

Very nice!! Lot of work went into that big boy, huh? Congrats!

BTW - Ever see the BassPro tractor/trailer that tours around with all those record book, phenomenal BBs? At one time there was a TV show with the story line behind the harvest of some of those BBs. Many were simply "walked upon" and shot! So much for BB hunting strategies..!?!

Edited January 9, 2018 by nyslowhand

[Hock3y24]

On 2/25/2017 at 10:56 PM, Bowshotmuzzleloader said:

Early bow ... 

Almost all mature bucks i see are during early bow, heck i only saw a hand full of deer during gun in the same areas the mature deer were.

[Just Lucky]

Congrats. I would like to add with scent control i will scuff the leaves up before getting into stand so the natural forest floor smell helps to cover my scent. In the hills I hunt the wind always swirls if in the valleys.

[cbyzerman]

Some years I do not have any mature bucks around and that sucks.  They are completely different animals, it is not even like hunting a deer sometimes. I hunt the thickest possible areas near a food source.  These areas are so thick other hunters avoid and to this day I have no idea why.  Then a lot of luck comes into play.......

[buckman4c]

As a follow up, here are more of the details: My scouting last winter and previous notations put me on to this area. I had been going past it to hunt another area and noticed over the years very consistent larger buck sign. I scouted it some last winter and took note of where the sign was located. My bow season was interrupted frequently by reasons I need not explain so my outings were limited. However, I bow hunted close to where I eventually killed him because of the big buck sign that was popping up and in the same locations I had previously found. I then killed a doe in rifle two days prior to killing him several hundred yards away and while getting her out found fresh rubs and scrapes had been worked. 

When we did our still hunt, I had several factors working in my favor. #1. The deer had been harassed all week from gun pressure in the valleys. #2. Up to that point in the season, I had only come across (4) other hunters all season, so that particular area wasn't being hunted nearly as hard. and #3. We still hunted a north facing ridge with a light SE wind. Knowing deer prefer to safely lay high on a ridge with the wind at their back, especially having been pressured, I knew there would be deer on that side. I just didn't know what deer and exactly where they would be hiding out. There are a few small points, benches and thick patches of pine, hemlock and rhododendron which I know they bed.  

While working across the side hill, I could feel the light wind perfectly pushing my scent down the mountain. The wind stayed consistent and the majority of deer went above me and didn't know I was there.  A half rack 3pt. and this buck showed up just after a large number of deer had cut up and on to the top of the mountain. The bucks stayed on the side hill at the military crest instead of following the group on to the top. Neither buck had any idea I was there. The legal 3pt. appeared first and I watched him for a good couple minutes before I heard the big buck coming in behind him.

The friend who was still hunting toward me while I worked toward him would end up killing his first buck a couple days later 200 yards below where I killed mine when it broke out the side of a drive in the valley.

I'm anxious to see if another mature buck moves into or is already using this particular area for next season.   

[gjs4]

Bucks do not reach maturity until 4.5 years of age, regardless of where you live, what is/isn’t alive near you or what you just shot. Fact.


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[buckman4c]

1 hour ago, gjs4 said:

Bucks do not reach maturity until 4.5 years of age, regardless of where you live, what is/isn’t alive near you or what you just shot. Fact.


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Thanks for straightening me out gjs4.  

Don't believe I mentioned his age.

What's your guess on age of the buck?

Antler score isn't a reliable source for aging but what do you think his racked grossed??

I'll tell you I "guessed" mid-120's and I was wrong.

 

[Steuben Jerry]

20 hours ago, gjs4 said:

Bucks do not reach maturity until 4.5 years of age, regardless of where you live, what is/isn’t alive near you or what you just shot. Fact.


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No grammar Nazi here, but learning proper sentence structure and grammar would do you some good. I can't really tell what you're saying.

I don't know your age, so apologies if you're still learning or have just immigrated to our country.

[gjs4]

Thanks for straightening me out gjs4.  
Don't believe I mentioned his age.
What's your guess on age of the buck?
Antler score isn't a reliable source for aging but what do you think his racked grossed??
I'll tell you I "guessed" mid-120's and I was wrong.
 

Hey man.

The age comment was not toward you...just a general pet peeve that people say “mature for our area”.... that’s like saying the baby in the nursery that’s been there two weeks is an adult by relativity.

Tough pic for age...id guess 3. For score I don’t think you’re off. Antlerinsanity is a free app with scoring as an FYI I’d guess tines, 4,7,8 beam 18, mass 17 =54x2 =108+16” spread ... so mid20s.

Great job


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[gjs4]

No grammar Nazi here, but learning proper sentence structure and grammar would do you some good. I can't really tell what you're saying.
I don't know your age, so apologies if you're still learning or have just immigrated to our country.

Thanks for the feedback Jerry.

Do you have good references for such intel? Feel free not to struggle with my posts until I can meet your stringent standards. In case you cannot look past my posts in the meanwhile; I’ll try post in children’s color books vernacular so your mom can explain to you what is being said.


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[JRod 8G8H]

That's a complicated question. I've harvested 2 mature bucks in 10 years hunting WNY in very small private spots.. One 141", the other 138".. Both at least 4.5 yo... Have taken younger and smaller bucks as well...

I think it's a combination of having an understanding with your neighbors, being very patient, keeping your scent out of bedding and giving them their "sancuary," maybe passing on bucks for a whole year or two and only taking does, and just plain old getting lucky. IMO it's unreasonable to consistently kill mature bucks year after year without changing locale.

[gjs4]

That's a complicated question. I've harvested 2 mature bucks in 10 years hunting WNY in very small private spots.. One 141", the other 138".. Both at least 4.5 yo... Have taken younger and smaller bucks as well...
I think it's a combination of having an understanding with your neighbors, being very patient, keeping your scent out of bedding and giving them their "sancuary," maybe passing on bucks for a whole year or two and only taking does, and just plain old getting lucky. IMO it's unreasonable to consistently kill mature bucks year after year without changing locale.

That last sentence is spot on whether it’s NY or places in the Midwest.

Age is fickle thing and we really do not have a balanced age structure here in NY despite what some believe and say.

I have seen bucks in the 130s in NY and near 160s in the Midwest that were 2years old. I have seen plenty mature deer that wouldn’t gross 100” too.

While it helps tremendously, I beg to differ that you can raise them. Most deer travel miles and most folks in wNY cannot offer exclusive hazard free miles of ground (let alone meeting all of a deer’s season needs). I do have some friends and work in the hunting industry. A specific farm in illinois (~2700ac of deer heaven with a full time manager and bottomless budget) lost their #1 target buck to the 300ac neighbor and piles of others to the surrounding area. Deer do what deer do and they simply can’t be contained aside from fences. You’re 100% correct on pressure and neighbors though and that’s why NY has the sad deer age structure it does.


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[buckman4c]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 11:49 AM, gjs4 said:

Great job


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Pretty good estimates for looking at a pic..

Aged at 4.5, grossed 132" (22" main beams).

I'm happy regardless.

Thanks. 

 

[buckman4c]

On ‎1‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 11:49 AM, gjs4 said:

 

Hey man.

The age comment was not toward you...just a general pet peeve that people say “mature for our area”.... that’s like saying the baby in the nursery that’s been there two weeks is an adult by relativity.

Tough pic for age...id guess 3. For score I don’t think you’re off. Antlerinsanity is a free app with scoring as an FYI I’d guess tines, 4,7,8 beam 18, mass 17 =54x2 =108+16” spread ... so mid20s.

Great job


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[buckman4c]

Have this all messed up. Reply found in previous post.

[buckman4c]

QUEST #2:

  Hello all! Just wanted to update on my new quest and let you follow along. My new Quest is to kill a mature buck with a bow.

  I began scouting a new piece of property and as you can see, it's worth the effort!! The lay of the land is similar to that in which I killed the buck this past season. A high wooded ridge bordered by agriculture valleys. This particular buck has been giving everyone the slip. Since we last talked about tactics and strategies, I have changed my approach to one of aggression. These older, highly pressured bucks seldom expose themselves and I've come to the conclusion that hunting near as possible to their beds in bow season will be my new approach.

  With that said, I've scouted this new area twice and recorded my findings in a phone app.. In brief, both side hills are steep with rolling terrain. Very small hollows cutting up the side hill with rises in terrain between. So far, I've found countless bedding areas on both the north and south slopes. But I have also found a "funnel" between boulders and gaps in the bedding, heavily traveled side hill trails that connect bedding areas and a few ascending and descending trails full of rubs. I also found a bench with very little bedding but a heavy trail running it's length. The bench is about half way up the mountain. At this point, I've established: (1) buck bed of the many I found which I can access and hunt without blowing off the mountain. The funnel and the bench as pre-rut/rut stand locations. I however haven't found a bedding location which made me believe it is the one used by this buck. I still have a considerable amount of area to cover. I'm scouting a one square mile area in which this buck was captured on camera.

  I've been watching "Dan Infalt" and "The Hunting Public" to educate myself on their approaches to buck bed hunting but not many of their hunts occur in large mountain terrain. I know you NY fellas have plenty of experience in big ridge country. Anyone willing to share their approach to hunting a buck bed or buck bedding areas? 

Look forward to continuing the "Quest" for mature bucks!!

[NFA-ADK]

Fixed it for you Buckman4C.  Wow real beauty, good luck with him!