Pro Hunting Show Fail

[WNYBuckHunter]

17 hours ago, Core said:

Baiting makes sense to control population or if you're harvesting purely for food, but at some point it turns from hunting into simply deer farming. 

Its really no different than food plotting, or hunting natural food sources. Once you pressure the deer that use the bait, they act just like they would at any other food source that you pressure, be it a food plot, crop field, apple orchard, oak flat, etc.

[chrisw]

I agree with most of you, I wouldn't/don't care to hunt over bait. Saying that I think most of you assume that these deer just throw all caution and regard for danger to the wind if you dump a pile of corn out. I don't see it as much different if you plant a corn plot or dump a pile of corn, if you let those deer know you're staking out nearby they won't come out until dark, same as a food plot. A bait pile is not a magical beast that hypnotizes deer. After reading through some of your posts and a lot of people on here preach that "if it's legal then who is anyone else to judge," would be offending a lot of hunters down south, I don't consider them less of a hunter or a "deer farmer" for hunting over bait, that's been their style of doing things for a long time. I'd be willing​ to bet a few on this site have shot a bear over bait, should we tell them they aren't a real hunter too? It does nothing for me personally to shoot a bear eating donuts out of a barrel but if it's legal and someone does it am I in any place to look down on them? With my rant over, I agree that the term "professional hunter" is a term thrown around loosely and I'm not even sure what the qualifications are to call yourself one, if any? But if one were anywhere near a professional they certainly wouldn't need bait or fences to get it done. Keith Warren comes to mind, I'm not sure that p.o.s. has ever hunted outside a fence or not in a heated box blind. The baiting doesn't really bother me so much I guess as the fences do.

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[Buckmaster7600]

I think many of you are forgetting what it takes to be a professional, getting paid to do it. It has nothing to do with skills.

Baiting deer is baiting deer, doesn't matter if your corn is on the stalk or the ground you planted it to feed deer. Hell I mow my corn in sections before different seasons so it's easier for me to kill them of my bait.


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[BizCT]

Guys - lets all agree hunting is a joke and quit. End the bickering and killing. Eat cows, not deer


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[CanastotaCamo]

On top of Biz' post, I would like to apologize for accidentally staring this conversation. I'm new to the area and. It trying to make enemies already.


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[growalot]

Whoa!!!!...Now you stop right there,none of that!...You start apologizing for making posts that stir a pot and you'll be apologizing all the time. Next thing you know you'll be irritating people for apologizing too much and have to apologize for that too..That alone could rack up pages........Where is that dog chasing tail emoticon?...Lol

Seriously this is, same ole same ole, "forget  about it!" 

 

[CanastotaCamo]

Whoa!!!!...Now you stop right there,none of that!...You start apologizing for making posts that stir a pot and you'll be apologizing all the time. Next thing you know you'll be irritating people for apologizing too much and have to apologize for that too..That alone could rack up pages........Where is that dog chasing tail emoticon?...Lol
Seriously this is, same ole same ole, "forget  about it!" 
 

I'll work on finding that emoticon.


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[stoneam2006]

On top of Biz' post, I would like to apologize for accidentally staring this conversation. I'm new to the area and. It trying to make enemies already.


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Shoot....this ain't nothing start a thread on xbow or antler restrictions they go on till mods shut the down lol.

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[Dinsdale]

2 hours ago, CanastotaCamo said:

On top of Biz' post, I would like to apologize for accidentally staring this conversation. I'm new to the area and. It trying to make enemies already.


 

Hey it was hunting orientated.

Could have been some stupid link in the political topics here. 

[NFA-ADK]

Don't let it phase you one bit CanastotaCamo, and no need to apologize.  Discussing hunting and opinions are a big part of the site and we all have different perspectives, one of the reasons the site is so good!!!  O yea and we like to argue, about everything pretty much. 

I always considered hunting the ADK in deep woods some of the hardest hunting.  I have heard Peter Feduccia the "Deer Doctor" state that NY hunters are some of the best hunters because they hunt heavily pressured deer.  I can say that public land is very hard to hunt vs private simply due to the pressure.

I know we all have our own views on what is ethical my only point would be not to frown upon your fellow hunters as long as its legal.  More often than not baiting is done in states with over population issues and TV shows are for entertainment usually not as much in education.  Deer and Deer Hunting is one that has much more education vs entertainment at least from the first 8 seasons I watched. 

This is why this site is so good, we have some of the best hunters with a passion for what they do and have them all over the state.  We also have a variety of hunting methods.  I can get advice for tree stand safety, night vision optics, residential hunting and deep woods ADK tactics.  Simply put I would consider many hunters on this site expert vs the pro title on TV.  The knowledge experience and insight is evident in so many who post on this forum.  One of the reasons I love this site, it fills my fix for deer and lets me write a small book, lol.  Simply put many of the hunters on this site would be in a class way above most TV show hunters.  With that type of experience baiting is considered cheating and always will be!

The defense rests and need to get some food!

[Zem18]

12 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

That's the perk of living in this country. They can do whatever they want and people can choose not to watch but many do and they make a very big paycheck while doing it.   Trophy deer are big money regardless of where their at or how their shown. 

Seems that Elk are big money too. Saw this article today and thought this was what the post was about.

http://americahunt.com/posts/reality-tv-hunters-caught-poaching-elk-for-episode-of-show

 

[Doc]

15 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Baiting deer is baiting deer, doesn't matter if your corn is on the stalk or the ground you planted it to feed deer.

There is one obvious difference between hunting a corn field vs a bait pile or timer driven feed dispenser. I once counted 38 different entry and exit trails to a corn field  that covered approximately a 1/4 mile of field edge. I never was at the right trail when I hunted there. And then too there is the huge area of bearing oaks that still require a bit of patterning to be a useful draw from a hunting standpoint. However, plopping down a single source of preferred deer food or some bag of special concocted preferred deer candy, not only places the deer in the same area that you are hunting, but even the specific 1 square foot location for the deer to stand long enough to pose for you until it finally turns enough to offer the perfect broadside shot at 20 yards. In fact I have read articles that describe timed feeders as acting like a dinner bell so they could not only provide the deer at the specific square foot of space, but also tell you when to be on stand for the performance to begin. How much of your hunting are you willing to let some deer-feeder manufacturer's engineer sitting in an office somewhere, do for you?

[growalot]

Apparently not one person comparing the two has EVER watched a Field Archer video. I'm giving no opinion on his hunting ,other than it's legal and his videos are a clear indication that a bait pile is way different than a food plot.

[Buckmaster7600]

There is one obvious difference between hunting a corn field vs a bait pile or timer driven feed dispenser. I once counted 38 different entry and exit trails to a corn field  that covered approximately a 1/4 mile of field edge. I never was at the right trail when I hunted there. And then too there is the huge area of bearing oaks that still require a bit of patterning to be a useful draw from a hunting standpoint. However, plopping down a single source of preferred deer food or some bag of special concocted preferred deer candy, not only places the deer in the same area that you are hunting, but even the specific 1 square foot location for the deer to stand long enough to pose for you until it finally turns enough to offer the perfect broadside shot at 20 yards. In fact I have read articles that describe timed feeders as acting like a dinner bell so they could not only provide the deer at the specific square foot of space, but also tell you when to be on stand for the performance to begin. How much of your hunting are you willing to let some deer-feeder manufacturer's engineer sitting in an office somewhere, do for you?

I'm willing to be you have very little experience hunting bait? If it were as easy as you think it is there wouldn't be a racked buck left in Ohio.


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[growalot]

I actually read a study yesterday that showed a hunter is less likely to shoot a mature buck over bait. This over shooting one in non baited nature habitat...more likely to shoot doe.

[tommyc50]

hi just my two cents baiting is putting the odds i your favor i minds eye it sends a wrong message if you can call it cheating so be it .get a deer at all cost never mind doing your homework and strategy and putting the time and effort in to it . to bait to entice deer for a tv show [for rating needs a kill to make better tv] or just to shoot a deer. its not about the expeirence to enjoy the time a field no one who dont hunt can understand what we  go though sitting for hours hunting can be as exciting as watching paint dry sitting in the snow freezing rain and 12 deg weather all for a chance just to see a deer thats where the sport comes in its what we endure for what we love to do as far as a food plot i believe and again my oppinion it enhances the herd and a good thing its my birthday 3/21 please comment nothing like a little advertizing lol

[growalot]

Well this whole thing will become a moot point anyways. Human nature folks, the local feed mills ,hunting stores and the UPS/ FedX guys will have a hard time keeping up with the stocking, sales and deliveries of various baiting attractants when the AR legislation goes through. Then add all the Amish sheds that will be popping up to hang and butcher deer...the tonneau covers that will be purchased to get those deer home  undetected...yep like it or not  your not going to stop human nature...I give my condolences  to those in the areas not included should this pass also to the butchering shops who's income will take a hit. Shame on you Rich Funke

[gjs4]

People bait, and cheat laws in general, because they feel entitled due to their compromised intelligence and physical stature in a state that typically caters to the lazy anyway.


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[CanastotaCamo]

There is one obvious difference between hunting a corn field vs a bait pile or timer driven feed dispenser. I once counted 38 different entry and exit trails to a corn field  that covered approximately a 1/4 mile of field edge. I never was at the right trail when I hunted there. And then too there is the huge area of bearing oaks that still require a bit of patterning to be a useful draw from a hunting standpoint. However, plopping down a single source of preferred deer food or some bag of special concocted preferred deer candy, not only places the deer in the same area that you are hunting, but even the specific 1 square foot location for the deer to stand long enough to pose for you until it finally turns enough to offer the perfect broadside shot at 20 yards. In fact I have read articles that describe timed feeders as acting like a dinner bell so they could not only provide the deer at the specific square foot of space, but also tell you when to be on stand for the performance to begin. How much of your hunting are you willing to let some deer-feeder manufacturer's engineer sitting in an office somewhere, do for you?

Doc,

I enjoyed and agree with your post. I thought of analogy that obviously can be rebutted, so I am posting for laughter and not to have dozens shoot holes through it. Let's call it rhetorical and for fun.

Scenario 1:
There are many bars in a town (food plots), the Trooper (hunter) patrols the road looking for the DUI. Sometimes people (deer) make it through the gauntlet. Immature bucks and does sometimes get caught driving by the trooper. The old wise buck takes a taxi home (no risk).

Scenario 2:
The Trooper befriends the people and begins to give them alcohol (bait pile). At the right moment, he arrests you for DUI.

In Scenario 1 it's a legal arrest. In Scenario 2 it's unlawful entrapment.


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[Doc]

On ‎3‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 8:44 AM, Buckmaster7600 said:

I'm willing to be you have very little experience hunting bait? If it were as easy as you think it is there wouldn't be a racked buck left in Ohio.

 

 

 

 

I wonder how they fake those Saturday shows that show trophy bucks all over the feeders while the boys drink their coffee in the box blinds with their sand-bagged rifles. I've got to say that it looks damned easy to me. And it's not like those programs are rare and difficult to find, so it does show that bait works, and not just on baby deer and does.

Also, why are people so darned excited to buy expensive feeders and haul all the bait out to load those feeders if it doesn't work? Do you suppose that if mature bucks never showed up at bait that the current marketing frenzy of feeders and specially concocted bags of bait would have a dime spent on them.

Also, What makes you think that the ease of baiting relates only to trophy bucks? The afore-mentioned monster buck TV stars that hang around feeders are not the only deer that bait becomes a useful tool for attracting. There also are all kinds of youngsters and does hanging around those feeders who make good cheap and easy targets also. Or don't they count? It's funny how we always judge all hunting experiences, rules, and ethics with only trophy bucks being considered.

Edited March 19, 2017 by Doc

[chrisw]

It sounds to me like you're the one being judgemental because you don't agree with the way someone else hunts. And what's it to you if another hunter only focuses on a "trophy" animal? If I only care to take a "trophy" animal does that make me less of a hunter? If someone wants to buy an expensive feeder to hunt over and it's legal then what makes your opinion so validated? You don't have to do it if you don't like it! You worry about you, quit whining about the other guys hunting methods. I have no interest in hunting over a feeder, but if it's legal and the neighbor does it legally then so be it. What you described about the feeder is essentially the same as a food plot. If I drove my four-wheeler up and down a field scattering corn over the 300 yd field would that be better for you? I can still touch every edge of the field with my rifle. Or is it wrong unless I plant corn over the field and then chop it and wait for the deer to show up so I can essentially play big buck hunter?? You very clearly have no idea what baiting is like, you're watching unrealistic hunting shows to start with and then applying those same unrealistic statistics to your situation.
We can bait for Coyote's in this state right? Why isn't the coyote harvest thread overflowing with dead dogs? Most people all whine and complain about coyotes taking over the world and yet they can't seem to kill them. Wouldn't baiting be the final answer? We can all sit back in our heated blinds, drinking coffee and telling jokes and mow down every coyote in the area.

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[Buckmaster7600]

I wonder how they fake those Saturday shows that show trophy bucks all over the feeders while the boys drink their coffee in the box blinds with their sand-bagged rifles. I've got to say that it looks damned easy to me. And it's not like those programs are rare and difficult to find, so it does show that bait works, and not just on baby deer and does.
Also, why are people so darned excited to buy expensive feeders and haul all the bait out to load those feeders if it doesn't work? Do you suppose that if mature bucks never showed up at bait that the current marketing frenzy of feeders and specially concocted bags of bait would have a dime spent on them.
Also, What makes you think that the ease of baiting relates only to trophy bucks? The afore-mentioned monster buck TV stars that hang around feeders are not the only deer that bait becomes a useful tool for attracting. There also are all kinds of youngsters and does hanging around those feeders who make good cheap and easy targets also. Or don't they count? It's funny how we always judge all hunting experiences, rules, and ethics with only trophy bucks being considered.

Having hunted south Texas "where most of the shows showing feeders are filmed" I can honestly say I don't think a deer could survive there without them, and that makes a big difference when the feed is their main food source as to a snack.

To answer your question on how they do it on the fake tv shows I will say I honestly don't know. Probably the same way lee and Tiffany can get 4 or 5 Boone and Crocket bucks to step out in their 10 acre bean fields 2hrs before dark.


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[Doc]

12 hours ago, chrisw said:

It sounds to me like you're the one being judgemental because you don't agree with the way someone else hunts. And what's it to you if another hunter only focuses on a "trophy" animal? If I only care to take a "trophy" animal does that make me less of a hunter? If someone wants to buy an expensive feeder to hunt over and it's legal then what makes your opinion so validated? You don't have to do it if you don't like it! You worry about you, quit whining about the other guys hunting methods. I have no interest in hunting over a feeder, but if it's legal and the neighbor does it legally then so be it. What you described about the feeder is essentially the same as a food plot. If I drove my four-wheeler up and down a field scattering corn over the 300 yd field would that be better for you? I can still touch every edge of the field with my rifle. Or is it wrong unless I plant corn over the field and then chop it and wait for the deer to show up so I can essentially play big buck hunter?? You very clearly have no idea what baiting is like, you're watching unrealistic hunting shows to start with and then applying those same unrealistic statistics to your situation.
We can bait for Coyote's in this state right? Why isn't the coyote harvest thread overflowing with dead dogs? Most people all whine and complain about coyotes taking over the world and yet they can't seem to kill them. Wouldn't baiting be the final answer? We can all sit back in our heated blinds, drinking coffee and telling jokes and mow down every coyote in the area
 

As far as I know, I still have a right to express an opinion. That is what forums are all about, isn't it? And yes I am judgmental and do evaluate hunting issues. Is there a problem with that? And I do like to explain why I do or do not do certain things in the name of hunting and intend to continue to do so. And no, I do not base my opinions on just one segment of the herd. Do you really think that game management decisions of a species can only focus on one gender and size of that species?

In terms of whether the TV baiting shows are realistic or not, I'm not sure whether you are trying to say that those are fake deer, or fake feeders, or fake box-blinds or what it is that you think is not real. So are you arguing that baiting doesn't work? These shows clearly show that isn't true and it is foolish to think that a whole industry has grown up around something that doesn't work. Isn't it kind of silly to be arguing for something that you believe doesn't really work?

And in terms of the food plot vs. the food pile or mechanical feeder, I don't think there is a hunter around (especially bow hunters) that doesn't understand the difference if they are to be honest. There really is no need to repeat all the differences that have already been noted. They are all pretty obvious anyway.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

As far as I know, I still have a right to express an opinion. That is what forums are all about, isn't it? And yes I am judgmental and do evaluate hunting issues. Is there a problem with that? And I do like to explain why I do or do not do certain things in the name of hunting and intend to continue to do so. And no, I do not base my opinions on just one segment of the herd. Do you really think that game management decisions of a species can only focus on one gender and size of that species?

In terms of whether the TV baiting shows are realistic or not, I'm not sure whether you are trying to say that those are fake deer, or fake feeders, or fake box-blinds or what it is that you think is not real. So are you arguing that baiting doesn't work? These shows clearly show that isn't true and it is foolish to think that a whole industry has grown up around something that doesn't work. Isn't it kind of silly to be arguing for something that you believe doesn't really work?

And in terms of the food plot vs. the food pile or mechanical feeder, I don't think there is a hunter around (especially bow hunters) that doesn't understand the difference if they are to be honest. There really is no need to repeat all the differences that have already been noted. They are all pretty obvious anyway.

Attraction is still attraction either way you look at it and you are still using the animals need to eat as a tool to kill it. Just makes some feel like they are doing it better by putting a little labor in planting the corn seed to make more corn rather than filling the feeder.

[growalot]

13 plots....never shot  buck on one of them in 15+ years....Gosh slam dunk! LOL