The Psychology Behind the Quest For Trophy Racks

[Four Season Whitetail's]

12 minutes ago, Belo said:

I think you can go back to caveman and native american times. The chief always wore the biggest head dress, or wore the largest animal skin or had the biggest skull on top of his walking stick lol. It's a sign of strength, it's that simple.

And look at the walls....Most all scratching of deer like animals had antlers or horns on their noggin...

As far as Doc's reply..It is still the same deal around here, Guys talking of the 10 or 12 taken but yes now most get scored.  There are quite a few guys on here that only target mature deer which most times leads to bigger antlers, They are a total different beast to hunt most of the year and there is huge success personally when a hunter takes a buck he has located,hunted and harvested. Its not an easy thing by any means and many either dont have what it takes to do such a task or care to do so, but to me for a meat hunter to kill a little buck in Ny state is kinda a waste in MOST areas of the state, Why kill a small buck when you have 6-8 doe tags available? 

Ya i know, They paid for it so why not fill it?

[stubby68]

 

 

40 minutes ago, Belo said:

I don't think anyone has a problem with those who meat hunt. Although it seems only meat hunters are offended by trophy hunters, but that's another subject.

The issue with your stance is that you will actively pursue the smaller easier to kill deer. And you MIGHT actually do that, who am I to say? But it's a head scratcher for a lot of us. If we a bb standing next to a 120+... we're shooting the 120+. Because yes the rack. But from a meat perspective it's not worse if taken care of properly and there's a lot more of it.

              I don't actively pursue any specific animal. I put myself in an area where there is a chance oof anything walking by me. That spot would be in the woods. I would gladly  trade my buck tag for a doe tag anyday. 

                Never said I would shoot the BB. If the bigger buck looked to be no more then 2.5 yearso old I would take that one. If it looked to be older then that they both would walk. They both might walk anyways depending on if I felt like dragging that day. 

        As for being an elite hunter I'm not even close. It is called making good shots. I make sure I have a good clear shot. If I don't take an iffy shot I won't have an iffy kill. If a weapon is sighted in and the person using it knows there limits with that weapon and makes sure they are taking good shots within the abilities with that weapon it does not make them an elite hunter. The first thing I say when people have a bad hit or a miss, is aim concentrate on the spot you want to hit not on the deer itself. I just love when a person says I hit a big 10 point and can not find it or I missed a big 10 point. If they have enough time to count the points then they have enough time to drop that deer in its tracks. I guess I shoot to kill not wound. None of this makes me elite or better then anyone else it just means that I have been lucky enough to not have had a bad shot.

    Trophy hunters don't call me at hunters baby killers? They don't say meat hunters don't have what it takes to be a real hunter and kill the big old bucks? They don't call a meat hunter a lier when the say they do not hunt for the antlers? How about when a meat hunter says you can't eat the antlers or that they prefer the taste of a younger buck over an older one? Is it not the trophy hunters who says that is just an excuse because the meat hunter does not have the skills needed to be a trophy hunter? Funny how these things and more are said about meat hunter by trophy hunters all the time. Many times in this thread alone. But yeah trophy hunters do not have a problem with someone who hunts for meat.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

8 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

 

 

              I don't actively pursue any specific animal. I put myself in an area where there is a chance oof anything walking by me. That spot would be in the woods. I would gladly  trade my buck tag for a doe tag anyday. 

                Never said I would shoot the BB. If the bigger buck looked to be no more then 2.5 yearso old I would take that one. If it looked to be older then that they both would walk. They both might walk anyways depending on if I felt like dragging that day. 

        As for being an elite hunter I'm not even close. It is called making good shots. I make sure I have a good clear shot. If I don't take an iffy shot I won't have an iffy kill. If a weapon is sighted in and the person using it knows there limits with that weapon and makes sure they are taking good shots within the abilities with that weapon it does not make them an elite hunter. The first thing I say when people have a bad hit or a miss, is aim concentrate on the spot you want to hit not on the deer itself. I just love when a person says I hit a big 10 point and can not find it or I missed a big 10 point. If they have enough time to count the points then they have enough time to drop that deer in its tracks. I guess I shoot to kill not wound. None of this makes me elite or better then anyone else it just means that I have been lucky enough to not have had a bad shot.

    Trophy hunters don't call me at hunters baby killers? They don't say meat hunters don't have what it takes to be a real hunter and kill the big old bucks? They don't call a meat hunter a lier when the say they do not hunt for the antlers? How about when a meat hunter says you can't eat the antlers or that they prefer the taste of a younger buck over an older one? Is it not the trophy hunters who says that is just an excuse because the meat hunter does not have the skills needed to be a trophy hunter? Funny how these things and more are said about meat hunter by trophy hunters all the time. Many times in this thread alone. But yeah trophy hunters do not have a problem with someone who hunts for meat.

Stubby, serious question. How many years have you been hunting and how many deer do you estimate you have taken?

[stubby68]

    Are you guys saying trophy hunting is a primitive caveman thing? That's funny. 

      You don't buy a fishing license and not use it do you. How about a vehicle do you buy one then leave it in the garage and never us it? Do you pay for a drivers license  and then never drive? Why buy something you will not use? I pay for my tag so I'm going to fill it. When they give me the choice of a buck or doe tag instead of just a buck tag then I will get the doe tag and not the buck. Or when someone else buys my tag they can decide what I use it for.

[stubby68]

10 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Stubby, serious question. How many years have you been hunting and how many deer do you estimate you have taken?

Been hunting 35 years. I would say 200 or more deer that I have killed. 

[beachpeaz]

If you consider hunting a sport (to which most people who hunt do), then killing 1.5 or 2.5 year old deer or doe is not a sport.  There is not a hunter young or old, good or bad, smoking in tree stand or not, orange or camo who doesn't have at least one stupid buck or young deer walk by them within in killing range on almost every hunt.  Why do I go after MATURE deer (which sometimes have larger racks but not all the time), because of the sport of it.  Your whits against that of a wiley, instinctive, reclusive, free-range animal.  You have no room for error.  For every 100 deer, there is only 1 or 2 mature bucks which makes the sport even harder.  I will eat my tag for 5 years in a row before I mercy kill at 1.5 year old deer.  Too each their own.

As far as the comment made regarding the proliferation of trophy hunting by TV Celebrities, that is a whole other subject.  That is not reality.   Those shows should be banned as anything other than a woods version of Keeping Up With The Kardashians.  The Bill Jordan's, Stan Pott's, Joel Snow's, Mark Drury's, Tiffany Lakoski's, David Blanton's, etc of the world are a closer version to Wal-Mart then the local Corner Store.  They are corporate America created for profit and nothing else.  They are pre-set up, pre-scouted, highly managed properties where these "elite" hunters show up at 3pm and drop a 160" at 4:30pm.  They will single handily ruin our sport for future generations by removing access to hunting grounds and driving up the cost of land.

 

[Five Seasons]

12 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

        As for being an elite hunter I'm not even close. It is called making good shots. I make sure I have a good clear shot. If I don't take an iffy shot I won't have an iffy kill. If a weapon is sighted in and the person using it knows there limits with that weapon and makes sure they are taking good shots within the abilities with that weapon it does not make them an elite hunter. 

    Trophy hunters don't call me at hunters baby killers? 

1. People take poor shots, i'm guilty. But even with the best intentions, sometimes these things happen. I really struggle to believe anyone who has spent any significant time in the woods has never had a mishap.

2. yes that happens. I think it's not very common anymore though other than maybe buddies busting balls. i see more trophy shaming in 2017 than i do bambi shaming. 

[Five Seasons]

17 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

    Are you guys saying trophy hunting is a primitive caveman thing? That's funny. 

      You don't buy a fishing license and not use it do you. How about a vehicle do you buy one then leave it in the garage and never us it? Do you pay for a drivers license  and then never drive? Why buy something you will not use? I pay for my tag so I'm going to fill it. When they give me the choice of a buck or doe tag instead of just a buck tag then I will get the doe tag and not the buck. Or when someone else buys my tag they can decide what I use it for.

No we're saying that shooting the biggest baddest creature in the woods, whether it's a deer, turkey, bear or fish is a primal urge that goes way back. Yes we're all geared up and generally hunting for sport in 2017, not to feed our kids. But the source of this thread is "why". And like I just said, it's a sign of strength.

[Five Seasons]

9 minutes ago, beachpeaz said:

If you consider hunting a sport (to which most people who hunt do), then killing 1.5 or 2.5 year old deer or doe is not a sport.  There is not a hunter young or old, good or bad, smoking in tree stand or not, orange or camo who doesn't have at least one stupid buck or young deer walk by them within in killing range on almost every hunt.  Why do I go after MATURE deer (which sometimes have larger racks but not all the time), because of the sport of it.  Your whits against that of a wiley, instinctive, reclusive, free-range animal.  You have no room for error.  For every 100 deer, there is only 1 or 2 mature bucks which makes the sport even harder.  I will eat my tag for 5 years in a row before I mercy kill at 1.5 year old deer.  Too each their own.

As far as the comment made regarding the proliferation of trophy hunting by TV Celebrities, that is a whole other subject.  That is not reality.   Those shows should be banned as anything other than a woods version of Keeping Up With The Kardashians.  The Bill Jordan's, Stan Pott's, Joel Snow's, Mark Drury's, Tiffany Lakoski's, David Blanton's, etc of the world are a closer version to Wal-Mart then the local Corner Store.  They are corporate America created for profit and nothing else.  They are pre-set up, pre-scouted, highly managed properties where these "elite" hunters show up at 3pm and drop a 160" at 4:30pm.  They will single handily ruin our sport for future generations by removing access to hunting grounds and driving up the cost of land.

 

totally agree. I've eaten buck tag soup for 2 years. But my freezer has been full of doe meat. And i passed my fair share of 1.5's during those years.

[stubby68]

29 minutes ago, Belo said:

30 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

46 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

 

[TACC]

And look at the walls....Most all scratching of deer like animals had antlers or horns on their noggin...
As far as Doc's reply..It is still the same deal around here, Guys talking of the 10 or 12 taken but yes now most get scored.  There are quite a few guys on here that only target mature deer which most times leads to bigger antlers, They are a total different beast to hunt most of the year and there is huge success personally when a hunter takes a buck he has located,hunted and harvested. Its not an easy thing by any means and many either dont have what it takes to do such a task or care to do so, but to me for a meat hunter to kill a little buck in Ny state is kinda a waste in MOST areas of the state, Why kill a small buck when you have 6-8 doe tags available? 
Ya i know, They paid for it so why not fill it?

6-8 doe tags available?

Not in the southern zone

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, TACC said:

6-8 doe tags available?

Not in the southern zone

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah that's why I said most but with many also doing the bow and muzzy thing most places will get you 3-4 antlerless tags thru out the season. 

[stubby68]

44 minutes ago, Belo said:

No we're saying that shooting the biggest baddest creature in the woods, whether it's a deer, turkey, bear or fish is a primal urge that goes way back. Yes we're all geared up and generally hunting for sport in 2017, not to feed our kids. But the source of this thread is "why". And like I just said, it's a sign of strength.

                Do you really think those cavemen or native Americans were killing them because they were the biggest and baddest. More like they killed them for the food. They used every part of the animal they killed and yes sometimes for decoration. 

              It is seen or used as a sign of strength that does not mean it is a sign of strength. If someone is bumbling through the woods and a huge 12 point jumps up and he kills it does that make him the top dog or just lucky. As I have said before. Saying you will kill a specific buck at a specific time ,and then doing so, shows you have something special. Going out time after time until you get lucky enough that the buck walks in front of you is just luck.

      

Edited July 17, 2017 by stubby68
Added

[beachpeaz]

29 minutes ago, Belo said:

totally agree. I've eaten buck tag soup for 2 years. But my freezer has been full of doe meat. And i passed my fair share of 1.5's during those years.

Agreed.  I've shot my fair share of doe for the freezer (and friends freezers).  It's important to do so.  I will never fill my freezer with a young buck.  Shooting a doe is eating, not a sport, lol.  Especially with modern weaponry. 

[grampy]

Not sure if the psychology aspect really apply's to what an individual hunter chooses to legally hunt. Weather it be a huge racked mature buck, yearling spike or a doe. We are all different individuals, with differing motivations and goals. Based on time restraints, experience, the land we hunt on, and many other variables, it will dictate what is "right" for one hunter and "wrong" for another. No one should be called an elitist, because they prefer to only hunt large racked, mature bucks. And by all means, no one should be made to feel bad about walking up on a nice fat doe or yearling buck. There really is no right and wrong, it's just hunting! Do whats feels good to YOU! Hunting should never be about pleasing someone else. It's about as personal as it gets, in our individual motivations to head out to the woods! Target the biggest buck on the property. Shoot the first legal deer that happens along. Head out to take a nap and not shoot anything. It really is all good. We all call ourselves hunters first. That, in my opinion is worth much more, than what we choose to shoot.

[beachpeaz]

Just now, stubby68 said:

                Do you really think those cavemen or native Americans were killing them because they were the biggest and baddest. More like they killed them for the food. They used every part of the animal they killed and yes sometimes for decoration. 

              It is seen or used as a sign of strength that does not mean it is a sign of strength. If someone is bumbling through the woods and a huge 12 point jumps up and he kills it does that make him the top dog or just lucky. As I have said before. Saying you will kill a specific buck at a specific time shows you have something special. Going out time after time until you get lucky enough that the buck walks in front of you is just luck.

      

I think you should circle back to the original meaning of why people hunt. 

There are 2 basic methodologies:

1) Hunting for Food - Age, rack, sex of species is irrelevant.  You are simply trading dollars for food no different than when you go to the grocery store (except you are pulling the trigger).  I would not consider this a sport as much as I would simply survival / eating.

2) Hunting for Sport - Where you target specific animals and match your whits against them.  You may go years between without filling a tag, but that is ok.  No different than any other sport where you only succeed, if you are lucky, a couple times in your career.

Even ancient civilizations broke down hunting into 2 different realms. There is no doubt in my mind that they both hunted for food on the table and for the sport / power of matching whits with a foe. 

To each their own if they are driven by #1 or #2 above.

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

3 minutes ago, TACC said:

6-8 doe tags available?

Not in the southern zone

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk
 

Yeah that's why I said most but with many also doing the bow and muzzy thing most places will get you 3-4 antlerless tags thru out the season. 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

16 minutes ago, beachpeaz said:

I think you should circle back to the original meaning of why people hunt. 

There are 2 basic methodologies:

1) Hunting for Food - Age, rack, sex of species is irrelevant.  You are simply trading dollars for food no different than when you go to the grocery store (except you are pulling the trigger).  I would not consider this a sport as much as I would simply survival / eating.

2) Hunting for Sport - Where you target specific animals and match your whits against them.  You may go years between without filling a tag, but that is ok.  No different than any other sport where you only succeed, if you are lucky, a couple times in your career.

Even ancient civilizations broke down hunting into 2 different realms. There is no doubt in my mind that they both hunted for food on the table and for the sport / power of matching whits with a foe. 

To each their own if they are driven by #1 or #2 above.

 

I love that theory of the luck involved. If a trophy hunter is just lucky when he kills the smartest deer in the woods then what's it called for those that kill the dumbest and the babies?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

38 minutes ago, TACC said:

6-8 doe tags available?

Not in the southern zone

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk
 

yes. Where I am. 2 doe tags on first draw. ALWAYS guaranteed 2 in late draw. 2 signed over. That is 6 not even getting into bow ML either sex and antlerless. Then add using you regular season buck tag during lat season and there is a possibility of 9 and never even have to shoot a buck

Edited July 17, 2017 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Rattler]

On 6/25/2017 at 3:53 AM, Doc said:

I am curious as to what you all think is the motive behind "trophy-ism" in deer hunting. Does it have to do with the notion that the deer with the biggest racks represent the hardest challenge in deer hunting? Is there an assumption that large racks equate to increased deer intelligence? Is there some relationship between rack size and the craftiness of the deer? Perhaps it is just the notion that you have heard that better hunters get bigger racks and that rack size is a way of measuring success or hunting prowess. Maybe that relates to needed peer approval. Why do you want to get a big-racked deer? There is no right or wrong answer, I am just curious.

For many, it's a competition, like everything else in their lives.  Bigger racked deer (truly wild ones) have lived longer and are often the hardest to kill, as they have developed survival skills over the years.  They are seen as proof of a hunter's skills by many, but you have to hear the story of the hunt to be sure of this.  Many do need peer approval.  

Unfortunately, hunting big racked deer today can be done on hunts that will guarantee a big racked deer if you wish to pay for it.  That's fine for the hunter that wishes to acquire a big buck that way, but it isn't really hunting skill or challenge that gets it.  Hunter's who get a big buck this way will often disagree, but I would disagree with them.  Today, a man's net worth can takes the place of hunting skills in many cases.  I believe each heavy racked deer has to be judged by the hunt that occurred when it was taken.  The specifics and details of the hunt are what I judge the trophy by.  Just my humble opinion.

[Buckmaster7600]

a dressed deer tipping 200 lbs. will undoubtedly be a trophy though 

Not always, weighed 225 maybe gross 120. I let him go 2 days before I killed him because I didn't have enough time to study him and I hadn't seen his track yet to see how big he really was. A "trophy" is in the eye of the beholder. He didn't get mounted because I have bigger already on the wall.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dbHunterNY]

17 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

yes. Where I am. 2 doe tags on first draw. ALWAYS guaranteed 2 in late draw. 2 signed over. That is 6 not even getting into bow ML either sex and antlerless. Then add using you regular season buck tag during lat season and there is a possibility of 9 and never even have to shoot a buck

we're running into issues in regions out this way where DEC wildlife techs that hand out DMAPs are asking if co-ops need as many as we do.  crazy idea because compared to DMPs we fill a much higher percentage.  I think they're chomping at the bit knowing that when we choose to scale back, for each DMAP no longer dished out they probably can justify handing out 3-4 DMPs.  What i don't understand is how they aren't seeing that there's sustained harvest numbers year after year, indicating the deer are there.  at this point we're just driving home that if you're most likely getting a DMAP don't apply for a DMP unless you feel you really need it.  also encouraging many to use their antlerless only bow/muzzleloader tag first and foremost before anything else.  problem exists with the idea they'd have to sit on it during rifle season.  pretty dumb.  with exceptions of DMAPs and damage permits, antlerless tags should be all lottery and over the counter, in which you can fill any of them any time of the season with whatever implement during a season you paid to hunt with.  no logistics of what over the counter tag to use when or regular season hunters being obligated to fill only an over the counter buck tag during the reg season.

[stubby68]

1 hour ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

I love that theory of the luck involved. If a trophy hunter is just lucky when he kills the smartest deer in the woods then what's it called for those that kill the dumbest and the babies?

Also luck. Anyone who gets a deer is lucky that it walked in front of them. Just because one scouts, preps, puts in bait plots and anything a person does to prepare for the hunt ,it does not mean that any deer will walk in front of them and give them a shot. Young or old that deer still has to walk through the right spot at the right time. You can sit on a bait plot for days knowing that the deer come there to feed and see nothing. Then all of the sudden one day those deer shof up.  That is luck. Tell me you will kill a specific deer at a specific time and do that. That is skill not luck. Funny how if someone hunts a big buck day in and day out and never gets that buck they can say they had no luck but if they get that buck it was skill not luck. Why not say they didn't have any skill on they days they did not get that buck. I have no skill when it comes to basketball but if I throw the ball at the hoop enough times I will eventually get lucky and have one go in.  Again that is luck not skill.

         You have said hunting and killing big bucks every year shows skill. Yet you also say you have eaten tag soup because you couldn't get the one you were after.  So that means you didn't have the skill you speak of those years.  Or is it that you weren't lucky enough to have that buck walk by you.

[moog5050]

1 hour ago, stubby68 said:

Also luck. Anyone who gets a deer is lucky that it walked in front of them. Just because one scouts, preps, puts in bait plots and anything a person does to prepare for the hunt ,it does not mean that any deer will walk in front of them and give them a shot. Young or old that deer still has to walk through the right spot at the right time. You can sit on a bait plot for days knowing that the deer come there to feed and see nothing. Then all of the sudden one day those deer shof up.  That is luck. Tell me you will kill a specific deer at a specific time and do that. That is skill not luck. Funny how if someone hunts a big buck day in and day out and never gets that buck they can say they had no luck but if they get that buck it was skill not luck. Why not say they didn't have any skill on they days they did not get that buck. I have no skill when it comes to basketball but if I throw the ball at the hoop enough times I will eventually get lucky and have one go in.  Again that is luck not skill.

         You have said hunting and killing big bucks every year shows skill. Yet you also say you have eaten tag soup because you couldn't get the one you were after.  So that means you didn't have the skill you speak of those years.  Or is it that you weren't lucky enough to have that buck walk by you.

Stubby

Just curious on your thoughts here because there is always some element of what you call luck in hunting. But let me give you a different example since you used free throw shooting.  As you said, any person (Person A) given enough attempts is likely to sink a free throw and it is luck when they do so.  Why, because the shot was mere chance - not brought about by skills learned in practice. So another person (Person B) that practices hard and shoots 100 free throws a day makes 85% of those free throws in games.  Is it luck or skill for Person B to make a free throw in a game given he that practiced hard to put the odds of making a free throw in his favor?  I would say that is skill learned over lots of preparation.  Now that person still won't make every free throw so you may say its luck.  I would disagree.  Same for hunters that work hard (scouting, moving on hot sign, practicing shooting, etc.) to put the odds in their favor that they will encounter and then kill a mature buck.  Certainly no one can pick a date and time to kill a specific free range animal (to suggest that as the measure of skill is silly frankly), but to suggest that there are not varying skill levels in hunting just seems to ignore common sense and actual results.  Guys like Dan Infalt are not just ridiculously lucky when it comes to killing mature backs.  He has more skill than most of us. 

Luck is defined as "

success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions."

 

Skill is defined as "the ability to do something well; expertise."

 

Based on the very definition of the word, it would seem to me that skill does not require perfection in determining when and how a hunter will kill a mature buck as you suggest.  Rather, that the hunter has the ability to do it well - better than mere chance.  And that is not mere luck, because the hunter brought about his opportunity through hard work, experience, etc (his own actions).  I do think its a bit more difficult to determine whether one particular hunter is more skilled than another because the factors affecting success can vary dramatically (access, density, time, opportunity).  But, one that succeeds often (like the 85% free throw shooter Person B) under similar circumstances is probably more skilled than the one who fails often (Person A).  

 

As I thought about this, a MLB batter may be an even better example.  A .400 batter can't tell you each and very time he will get a hit.  But he is certainly more skilled than I am at hitting a ball where I might hit a major league pitcher 1 out of a 1000 times by mere chance.  Anyways, I hope you understand my point and I am not stating it to suggest I am greatly skilled at hunting.  Just that those that kill big bucks often do have a certain set of skills beyond mere chance.

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by moog5050

[Four Season Whitetail's]

51 minutes ago, stubby68 said:

Also luck. Anyone who gets a deer is lucky that it walked in front of them. Just because one scouts, preps, puts in bait plots and anything a person does to prepare for the hunt ,it does not mean that any deer will walk in front of them and give them a shot. Young or old that deer still has to walk through the right spot at the right time. You can sit on a bait plot for days knowing that the deer come there to feed and see nothing. Then all of the sudden one day those deer shof up.  That is luck. Tell me you will kill a specific deer at a specific time and do that. That is skill not luck. Funny how if someone hunts a big buck day in and day out and never gets that buck they can say they had no luck but if they get that buck it was skill not luck. Why not say they didn't have any skill on they days they did not get that buck. I have no skill when it comes to basketball but if I throw the ball at the hoop enough times I will eventually get lucky and have one go in.  Again that is luck not skill.

         You have said hunting and killing big bucks every year shows skill. Yet you also say you have eaten tag soup because you couldn't get the one you were after.  So that means you didn't have the skill you speak of those years.  Or is it that you weren't lucky enough to have that buck walk by you.

Guess we can agree on one thing!  You really are clueless when it comes to older aged Trophy whitetails. I have had my ass humbled many a time by trophy size bucks right in your back yard. Not a year goes by that I don't find and hunt at least 2 bucks that will either make the book or my book. Am I lucky?  The very smallest part is luck when you can do it on any kind of basis. Very few just walk in and stumble on a trophy buck!  Luck into it as you say.  I have patterned bucks on the park that do not leave the bottom until it's dark out and they are back in their beds on the bottom before daylight after they have came out of the bottom,across the park road and chased does in our Alfalfa fields all night!  You really need to keep that luck thing with your little guys I guess because very few trophy deer are lucked upon in the big picture of deer hunting!