I was wondering about......

[First-light]

I still believe 9/10 guys on the site have or will take a shot within 15 minutes past legal hours.

Burt,

you should not judge others by the set if rules you choose to follow.

Not judging Bubba. Never have and never will. That's totally my thoughts on the subject. I give you credit for having such high standards, good for you.

[nyantler]

The fact that a buck only leaves you little time to shoot at him, should have nothing to do with shooting a buck before LEGAL shooting time... this is the lack of hunter restraint that I talk about... and that restraint should apply to big bucks or little bucks .. or even doe for that matter. What makes killing a deer so important that you need to break the law to do it???... the time is set for a reason... one persons idea of good shooting light is not anothers so the DEC has set one for you so there are no grey areas... this is another example where there has to be a law created to save some hunters from themselves! So, hard to believe how some adults just can't do the right thing...

[arrowflinger]

There is a Fair Chase aspect to this, too.

If you are not following the letter of the law.....you are not hunting Fair Chase.

[bubba]

it is illegal as well as unethical.  But hey to each his own.  My thought is that it is no different than using a light in the middle of the night, or road hunting. It gives us all a bad name.  The people who live around you who do not hunt hear those early and late shots.  They look at clocks also and know the laws.  Then it is every hunter shoots before daylight and after dark.  I prefer to be known as a guy who follows the laws. But again to each his own.

[First-light]

The fact that a buck only leaves you little time to shoot at him, should have nothing to do with shooting a buck before LEGAL shooting time... this is the lack of hunter restraint that I talk about... and that restraint should apply to big bucks or little bucks .. or even doe for that matter. What makes killing a deer so important that you need to break the law to do it???... the time is set for a reason... one persons idea of good shooting light is not anothers so the DEC has set one for you so there are no grey areas... this is another example where there has to be a law created to save some hunters from themselves! So, hard to believe how some adults just can't do the right thing...

Sorry Joe I have never ever looked at my watch to see if it was legal shooting time. Talking about this hunting situation on this thread will not change my mind, it's not even something that crosses my mind while on stand. If the deer is close and it's around the end of legal time give or take 10 minutes I will shoot. Again, most guys I believe would. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, you and Bubba get high marks for this. I just don't see it as such a big deal. I am a real good hunter, respect the game, have mentored kids in the woods and go the extra mile to promote hunting.

[First-light]

it is illegal as well as unethical.  But hey to each his own.  My thought is that it is no different than using a light in the middle of the night, or road hunting. It gives us all a bad name.  The people who live around you who do not hunt hear those early and late shots.  They look at clocks also and know the laws.  Then it is every hunter shoots before daylight and after dark.  I prefer to be known as a guy who follows the laws. But again to each his own.

Yes to each his own. But please before day light and after dark was not the issue here. It was legal hunting time that the DEC mandates us to and the gray area 10 minutes before and after. I don't think most guys here would shoot in the dark!!!

[nyantler]

The fact that a buck only leaves you little time to shoot at him, should have nothing to do with shooting a buck before LEGAL shooting time... this is the lack of hunter restraint that I talk about... and that restraint should apply to big bucks or little bucks .. or even doe for that matter. What makes killing a deer so important that you need to break the law to do it???... the time is set for a reason... one persons idea of good shooting light is not anothers so the DEC has set one for you so there are no grey areas... this is another example where there has to be a law created to save some hunters from themselves! So, hard to believe how some adults just can't do the right thing...

Sorry Joe I have never ever looked at my watch to see if it was legal shooting time. Talking about this hunting situation on this thread will not change my mind, it's not even something that crosses my mind while on stand. If the deer is close and it's around the end of legal time give or take 10 minutes I will shoot. Again, most guys I believe would. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, you and Bubba get high marks for this. I just don't see it as such a big deal. I am a real good hunter, respect the game, have mentored kids in the woods and go the extra mile to promote hunting.

IMO...The law is always a big deal.. looking at your watch doesn't take but a second.. It is irresponsible not to and I wouldn't call that person much of a hunter... a deer is not all that important that you need to break the law to get one.. I'm sure you look at your watch plenty when it comes to quitting time at work 

[bubba]

it is illegal as well as unethical.  But hey to each his own.  My thought is that it is no different than using a light in the middle of the night, or road hunting. It gives us all a bad name.  The people who live around you who do not hunt hear those early and late shots.  They look at clocks also and know the laws.  Then it is every hunter shoots before daylight and after dark.  I prefer to be known as a guy who follows the laws. But again to each his own.

Yes to each his own. But please before day light and after dark was not the issue here. It was legal hunting time that the DEC mandates us to and the gray area 10 minutes before and after. I don't think most guys here would shoot in the dark!!!

ok if you want to split hairs. They know when a shot rings out before sunrise and after sunset. Shooting after ours is shooting after hours if tiis 5 minutes after hours or midnight.  The law reads the same for both. It doesnt say it is better if it is 5 minutes after.  I guess if I were down to a minute or two of legal light, I would lean toward not shooting rather than worry about if I got in in time. Suppose your watch is 5 minutes behind and the dec oficers watch is correct time.  umm busted.  I hope you do not mentor kids and show them breaking the law is ok.  If you are please stop mentoring. 

[Dave]

The fact that a buck only leaves you little time to shoot at him, should have nothing to do with shooting a buck before LEGAL shooting time... this is the lack of hunter restraint that I talk about... and that restraint should apply to big bucks or little bucks .. or even doe for that matter. What makes killing a deer so important that you need to break the law to do it???... the time is set for a reason... one persons idea of good shooting light is not anothers so the DEC has set one for you so there are no grey areas... this is another example where there has to be a law created to save some hunters from themselves! So, hard to believe how some adults just can't do the right thing...

Antler did you ever hunt in the woods and the fog rolls in, not a good situation but it's legal hunting time. I have many times and have just been able to make out the legs of a deer so according to you I should shoot because it's legal hunting time. It is a decision to shoot or not to shoot depends on lots of things and good shooting light is the main concern. See your target and beyond and you can only do that if you have enough light. I don't recall many times that it isn't legal shooting light that I have seen deer.

Dave

[bubba]

interesting you should bring that up.  In the 2009 season, a man was shot at 50 yards in the fog. Mistaken for a deer by a corrections officer.  It was 8 am legal light. Does that make it safe umm no. But that is an entirely different situation than hunting/shootig after legal hours.  Common sense needs to prevail sometimes. Hunter greed and bragging rights are a togh thing to overcome.

[arrowflinger]

For all you ten minute before and after guys.....what do you enter for "time killed" on the report?

[bubba]

There is a place for time, just county wmu sex month and day and signature saying what you did was all legal under penalty of perjury.

[Dave]

For all you ten minute before and after guys.....what do you enter for "time killed" on the report?

Day Time

[Pygmy]

You old timers..Remember when legal shooting hours were 7:00 AM to 5:00 PM....??...

I think that it was  around 1970 they changed it to sunrise/sunset...

I can remember that toward the end of the season, it was pretty dark at the end of legal shooting time ( 5:00 PM)....

[Dave]

You old timers..Remember when legal shooting hours were 7:00 AM to 5:00 PM....??...

I think that it was  around 1970 they changed it to sunrise/sunset...

I can remember that toward the end of the season, it was pretty dark at the end of legal shooting time ( 5:00 PM)....

Pygmy, by me it's already dark at 5:00pm. I usually start to leave my stand by 4:30 sih.

Dave

[hunter49]

It was 7am - 5pm at one time  & I beleive it was 1/2 hr  before & 1/2 hr after at one time also years ago. If you are going to shoot  Too early or too late you might as well shoot one in the middle of july  or at night with a light , its just as wrong & illegal !  Jmo.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

For all you ten minute before and after guys.....what do you enter for "time killed" on the report?

What tags are you using? Mine don't have a spot for any time. Are you really a New York hunter?

[steve863]

I remember a similar argument on the old forum.  In my opinion Burt is the only honest one here.  I think most would shoot, they just aren't man enought to admit it.  I tend not to believe those who say they never broke this rule.  And to compare someone shooting 10 minutes before or after legal hours to shooting in the middle of the night is a more than a bit of a stretch also.  To each their own of course, but I have been around hunting long enough to know what people do in situations like this, yet will swear up and down that they don't.

[Dave]

I remember a similar argument on the old forum.  In my opinion Burt is the only honest one here.  I think most would shoot, they just aren't man enought to admit it.  I tend not to believe those who say they never broke this rule.  And to compare someone shooting 10 minutes before or after legal hours to shooting in the middle of the night is a more than a bit of a stretch also.  To each their own of course, but I have been around hunting long enough to know what people do in situations like this, yet will swear up and down that they don't.

Steve I totally agree, they may think the dec is listening. I must admit if I saw a nice buck 10 min before or after the legal time I would shoot it too. As long as it was a clear shot and I could see through my scope or pee sight.

Dave

[arrowflinger]

For all you ten minute before and after guys.....what do you enter for "time killed" on the report?

What tags are you using? Mine don't have a spot for any time. Are you really a New York hunter?

Seems like we used to on the old mail in reports.

I don't like your tone, Mister. >

I hunt horns nowadays....been a few years since I had to fill out a tag, unfortunately.

[arrowflinger]

I remember a similar argument on the old forum.  In my opinion Burt is the only honest one here.  I think most would shoot, they just aren't man enought to admit it.

So all of the ethical hunters are liars and all of the unethical cheaters are virtuous?  LMAO.

[SteveB]

Why is it that because someone can justify their own willfull breaking of a law, they think everyone else must do the same?

[First-light]

I remember a similar argument on the old forum.  In my opinion Burt is the only honest one here.  I think most would shoot, they just aren't man enought to admit it.  I tend not to believe those who say they never broke this rule.  And to compare someone shooting 10 minutes before or after legal hours to shooting in the middle of the night is a more than a bit of a stretch also.  To each their own of course, but I have been around hunting long enough to know what people do in situations like this, yet will swear up and down that they don't.

Thank you Steve, although I do believe a very very small % of the guys might actually adhere to the rules.

[arrowflinger]

Thank you Steve, although I do believe a very very small % of the guys might actually adhere to the rules.

That's really sad.

I hope you are wrong.

[First-light]

it is illegal as well as unethical.  But hey to each his own.  My thought is that it is no different than using a light in the middle of the night, or road hunting. It gives us all a bad name.  The people who live around you who do not hunt hear those early and late shots.  They look at clocks also and know the laws.  Then it is every hunter shoots before daylight and after dark.  I prefer to be known as a guy who follows the laws. But again to each his own.

Yes to each his own. But please before day light and after dark was not the issue here. It was legal hunting time that the DEC mandates us to and the gray area 10 minutes before and after. I don't think most guys here would shoot in the dark!!!

ok if you want to split hairs. They know when a shot rings out before sunrise and after sunset. Shooting after ours is shooting after hours if tiis 5 minutes after hours or midnight.  The law reads the same for both. It doesnt say it is better if it is 5 minutes after.  I guess if I were down to a minute or two of legal light, I would lean toward not shooting rather than worry about if I got in in time. Suppose your watch is 5 minutes behind and the dec oficers watch is correct time.  umm busted.  I hope you do not mentor kids and show them breaking the law is ok.  If you are please stop mentoring.

This is even ridiculous I have to respond to this but here it goes, At no time when mentoring the kids have I ever looked at my watch and said "all clear to shoot" or "don't release we just passed legal shooting time." At no point has any parent come back to me and complained I didn't follow the exact times for sunrise and sunset. I do the right thing with the kids, don't lose any sleep over it Bubba. Sunrise and sunset changes every day. I wonder how many of you "by the book hunters" look up the exact time before you go out each day? Joe I don't need to be saved from myself,

I do the right thing out there!