Made the switch

[gfdeputy2]

1 minute ago, TACC said:

If you get that in writing from DEC, please post it, either way.The DEC is usually slower than the ATF to put things in writing for approval, disapproval is much easier and faster.

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I am trying to get contact info & will contact through email so I have it in print. these are some really awesome heads so I would hate to have to use different ones in NY than I do here & Chase 0218 I really did not mean to hijack your thread I am sorry

[chas0218]

3 minutes ago, gfdeputy2 said:

I am trying to get contact info & will contact through email so I have it in print. these are some really awesome heads so I would hate to have to use different ones in NY than I do here & Chase 0218 I really did not mean to hijack your thread I am sorry

No prob, I want to know too. Post back when you find out.

[gfdeputy2]

1 minute ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

But once they pivot back, they lock into place and are not able to pivot forward without compressing the tip.

no they do not pressing the tip unlocks blade from closed position they do not actually lock open per say you just cant close them they swivel open to 112 degrees forward

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Interesting. Id like to see the DEC ruling on them as well. I wouldnt be interested in using them, as the additional mechanics to it just seems unnecessary.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

24 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Hmm that is pretty interesting. If that is true then they are NY legal. 

how do you figure?

[JRod 8G8H]

11 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

I was thinking the same thing but if you look at the picture of the opened one and my fixed head the cutting diameter of the rage is almost the same as my little fixed head without the blades deployed so I was thinking it would be a wash. I think the Rage not opened would be close to 7/8" cutting diameter where my fixed blade is only 1" so not much of a difference.

Have you seen the muzzy trocar HB? That makes me feel a little better about using a mechanical... checking reviews on a daily basis for those regarding penetration, flight, failure, quality, etc...

[gfdeputy2]

1 minute ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

how do you figure?

they seem to fit the description on DEC's site. E-Mail is submitted so we will see what they say

I want to use them but if they are illegal they will stay in NH & I will use my fixed blades

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, gfdeputy2 said:

no they do not pressing the tip unlocks blade from closed position they do not actually lock open per say you just cant close them they swivel open to 112 degrees forward

 

Their information says that once deployed they lock and become a fixed blade broadhead. Even if they pivot back forward, if they don't make it to 90degrees they are barbed

[gfdeputy2]

1 minute ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Their information says that once deployed they lock and become a fixed blade broadhead. Even if they pivot back forward, if they don't make it to 90degrees they are barbed

they don't actually lock they lock out from closing they make it past 90 they go to 112 I could make a video but not sure how to post it

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, gfdeputy2 said:

Barbed broadheads are illegal for hunting big game. A barbed broadhead is one in which the angle formed between the trailing or rear edge of any blade and the shaft is less than 90 degrees. A notch at the base of the blade extending no more than 2 millimeters from the shaft shall not be considered a barb. Broadhead examples on the right compare one that is barbed to three that are legal. Broadheads with retractable blades are legal. Broadheads with mechanical blades are legal if the blades DO NOT form a barb or hook when the arrow is pulled from the flesh of a deer or bear

AND the blade locking notches are 1.5 mm from the body of the broadhead. I guess I will send this info to DEC. Thanks for the heads up everyone 

I didn't understand. I was looking at this backwards.  I thought the pic had the broadhead point on the right and not the left. I see what you mean about them opening to past 90 degrees now. 

[dbHunterNY]

2 hours ago, chrisw said:

You're supporting China whether you buy them from China direct or buy them in a "Rage" package. If it saves me $14 per broadhead I'll think I'll cut out the "middle man" which is the Rage company. All of the Rage marketing and sponsorships will do just fine without my money too...

Off my soapbox.

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1 hour ago, chas0218 said:

I'm not for supporting China but here is my thing. I can't support a company that has their product made in China but charge you 15x more than a competitor. A lot of these companies make it out to be in support of hunters and their sport but in reality just taking your hard earned money they could careless. I haven't seen any companies make donations to any Wildlife conservative funds or the like. I don't mind screwing a company that thinks it is okay to charge $15 vs $1 for a product that is the same. Maybe it will open their eyes and stop screwing us hunters out of our money. 

I shoot Rage broadheads.  I'm also an engineer at my day job.  There's significant overhead costs of putting a warm American body in a seat to design, distribute, or do job XYZ to sell a product.  let's say a person makes $25 per hour.  That'd mean if FeraDyne made $15 off each head which they don't, they'd still have to sell 3,500 heads just support that one average but decent American job.  Manufacturing facility like that has trucker, warehouse workers, janitors, office clerks, executives steering the ship, to marketing folks.  if you did the math i'm sure it's half a million heads just to support their labor costs.  none of which overhead whomever is making the china knockoffs has. Not to mention they're making money off of someone else's intellectual property. This is from the horses mouth "Rage broadheads are assembled in the United States (Wisconsin) comprised of parts made in the USA and other countries. We do make most blades and ferrules here."  By all means buy the knockoffs if you want to save money, but enough with the BS assumptions.  There's an entire facility of Americans making these that support our time honored tradition of whacking and stacking deer while making memories.  In turn, your indirect thoughts are, "they should make as much as 12 year old Ping-Pong and his mom sweating away in China assembling knockoffs at something that's probably half the cost of wage they currently make."  Marketing still actually means American jobs and sponsorships aren't a big slice of overhead.  Most of the time a company says here's free swag and product for you to promote our stuff you believe works.

[gfdeputy2]

well sent the info to DEC specs & their regulation this is their response 

If you look on our website at:  http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8305.html

 

There is a list of illegal and legal implements used for big game hunting – along with photos.

Hopefully this will help.

Well no kidding that is where I got the regulation 

all I read the Auto-lock meets the specs of a legal broadhead for NY. 

I did push them for an answer but have not heard back

[dbHunterNY]

Better off asking the ECO for the area you hunt that'd give you the ticket.

[gfdeputy2]

12 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

Better off asking the ECO for the area you hunt that'd give you the ticket.

I plan on bringing them out with me to do exactly that but NY's regs apparently are not black & white & are  subject to Interpretations  

[TACC]

Better off asking the ECO for the area you hunt that'd give you the ticket.

I disagree because the law must be interpreted for state wide rulings, that's why it needs to be in writing with DEC r mail/letterhead, to cover your butt

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[gfdeputy2]

4 minutes ago, TACC said:

I disagree because the law must be interpreted for state wide rulings, that's why it needs to be in writing with DEC r mail/letterhead, to cover your butt

Sent from my SM-G900T3 using Tapatalk
 

well they tell me to look it up. They will not give me an answer. 

 it meets the specs but some here say they are a no go

[Buckmaster7600]

I shoot Rage broadheads.  I'm also an engineer at my day job.  There's significant overhead costs of putting a warm American body in a seat to design, distribute, or do job XYZ to sell a product.  let's say a person makes $25 per hour.  That'd mean if FeraDyne made $15 off each head which they don't, they'd still have to sell 3,500 heads just support that one average but decent American job.  Manufacturing facility like that has trucker, warehouse workers, janitors, office clerks, executives steering the ship, to marketing folks.  if you did the math i'm sure it's half a million heads just to support their labor costs.  none of which overhead whomever is making the china knockoffs has. Not to mention they're making money off of someone else's intellectual property. This is from the horses mouth "Rage broadheads are assembled in the United States (Wisconsin) comprised of parts made in the USA and other countries. We do make most blades and ferrules here."  By all means buy the knockoffs if you want to save money, but enough with the BS assumptions.  There's an entire facility of Americans making these that support our time honored tradition of whacking and stacking deer while making memories.  In turn, your indirect thoughts are, "they should make as much as 12 year old Ping-Pong and his mom sweating away in China assembling knockoffs at something that's probably half the cost of wage they currently make."  Marketing still actually means American jobs and sponsorships aren't a big slice of overhead.  Most of the time a company says here's free swag and product for you to promote our stuff you believe works.

Very well said, people on here brag about 200$ dip camo jobs on their bows but complain about a 15$ broadhead. I don't shoot rage but if I was going to I surely wouldn't be buying them from China and taking money out of Americans pockets.


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[Core]

On 10/17/2017 at 12:40 PM, chas0218 said:

I'm not for supporting China but here is my thing. I can't support a company that has their product made in China but charge you 15x more than a competitor. A lot of these companies make it out to be in support of hunters and their sport but in reality just taking your hard earned money they could careless. I haven't seen any companies make donations to any Wildlife conservative funds or the like. I don't mind screwing a company that thinks it is okay to charge $15 vs $1 for a product that is the same. Maybe it will open their eyes and stop screwing us hunters out of our money. 

I guess the point is, though, that the $1 wouldn't exist without the $15. The chinese company did not invent anything, they just stole it. The US company developed it because they could sell it for $15. If only $5, they wouldn't have had enough margin to bother. It looks like they didn't even steal it terribly well. I know these heads are working okay for people, but the screw is very proud of the head. You can buy these for $1 because chinese labor costs a couple of dollars an hour, the factory that is making them stole the design and is not paying royalties of any sort, nor did they spend any money on R&D, nor do they spend any on marketing.

It's basically akin to a guy at a software company working on a team of people and they all develop software over a long period of time, then he starts sneaking the code onto a flash drive and selling it on the black market for pennies. 

I do think the margin on broadheads must be pretty high, especially with some of the cheaper (legitimate) ones costing half the price of similarly functioning legitimate ones (much of the difference is just profit), but there's no way a US company can possibly develop a head and put it to market at $3/pack. Even the cheap allen fixed from walmart are $7/pack. I would guess that is approximately as cheap as they can be made for while maintaining any profit margin.

[Hunter_NY]

On 10/17/2017 at 10:27 AM, chas0218 said:

 

Well I put 2 Rage In the quiver last night. I'm still holding onto my fixed head for tonight but plan on taking a 30 and 40 yard shot to make sure these fly the same as my fixed. Insane the size of the cutting diameter.

Below is new vs old.

 

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You might want to hold on to your fixed blades I just took a small buck with a perfect broadside shot got both lungs

arrow never went through took out 2 ribs took me 3 hours to find him no blood after 30 yards I just order some

swhackers broadheads I will try these out

[OtiscoPaul]

On 10/17/2017 at 11:24 AM, Fletch said:

Keep supporting China!! Our grandkids will have to speak Chinese! The reason they are so cheap is they stole the R&D as well as the technology to make and make slaves make them...........

 

Off my soapbox. fire away.....

 

On 10/17/2017 at 12:40 PM, chas0218 said:

I'm not for supporting China but here is my thing. I can't support a company that has their product made in China but charge you 15x more than a competitor. A lot of these companies make it out to be in support of hunters and their sport but in reality just taking your hard earned money they could careless. I haven't seen any companies make donations to any Wildlife conservative funds or the like. I don't mind screwing a company that thinks it is okay to charge $15 vs $1 for a product that is the same. Maybe it will open their eyes and stop screwing us hunters out of our money. 

Simple fix is buy products 100% made and manufactured in the USA or atleast from other countries with fair labor practices and high quality standards like Canada and Germany.

Edited October 19, 2017 by OtiscoPaul

[gfdeputy2]

 

 

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by gfdeputy2

[Robhuntandfish]

this is the exit from a doe this year with whitetail grim reapers!  have lost 2 deer with Rages (had to buy were out of Grims)- went back to these!  never lost a deer.  

[OtiscoPaul]

12 hours ago, Hunter_NY said:

You might want to hold on to your fixed blades I just took a small buck with a perfect broadside shot got both lungs

arrow never went through took out 2 ribs took me 3 hours to find him no blood after 30 yards I just order some

swhackers broadheads I will try these out

I'm starting to sound like a broken record around here but in my experience if you are NOT shooting heavy arrows and DW (500 grain arrows and over 70lb DW) then ANY mechanical is gonna eat momentum and result in what I have repeatedly observed, terrible penetration on otherwise perfect shots.

I am now shooting heavy arrows and decent DW and I will still never go back to mechanicals or any other BH w/thin and/or moving blades.

I'll get the off the well worn soapbox.

 

Edited October 19, 2017 by OtiscoPaul

[chas0218]

On 10/17/2017 at 1:06 PM, Culvercreek hunt club said:

how do you figure?

Because once fired they stay back but not past the 90* so they are not considered barbed. So with 90* requirement from the tip they pivot back 12* towards the tip making the angle 78* from the tip and longer making them barbed. 

Edited October 19, 2017 by chas0218

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Because once fired they stay back but not past the 90* so they are not considered barbed. So with 90* requirement from the tip they pivot back 12* towards the tip making the angle 78* from the tip and longer making them barbed.

Yeah, keep reading. we moved past that...lol