can you explain why hunters would want to shorten gun season?

[aboa13]

AR's don't work and that is proven for one.
My problem with earn a buck is that some people don't get shots at does. Where my dad and I hunt we haven't had a shot at a doe since 2014, so if we don't take whatever buck we can, we get nothing. So far this year I have seen one doe, at 100 yards. Although I will say this. The areas that have lots of does where the DEC has been begging people to shoot them and they won't, yes I think earn a buck is perfect in those areas. You see guys say that's all they see but they won't shoot them, well make them if they want a buck. If we had does like that around here I would have no problem with it, but we don't.

Fair point. I more often then not fill my doe tags. And let the small bucks walk. Last 3 years. No bucks. I'd rather shoot a doe then a 4 point.


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[WNYBuckHunter]

11 hours ago, stubby68 said:

       I bow hunted for quite a few years and never had a year when I didn't take deer. The neighbors didn't bow hunt in fact very few people around the area did so no worries of them getting deer before gun season. 

Actually I have put up pictures of the deer I have taken many times infact. You can tell nothing about someone from what they post on the internet. No matter what you think you know about them the truth is almost always far from what you think.

        I rant about nothing. Rants are based on nothing but opinion.  Absolutely everything I have said about bow hunters is true. They are facts based on the exact words used by bow hunters every single time a thread like this comes up. Go to any hunting site and you can read the Samy words from many more bow hunters then just the ones here. All one needs to do is read the threads here they can quickly see the words from the b on hunters. Can you dispute this in any way? Are these statements and words I have used not words used by bow hunters? That fact that they are and that you can not dispute or prove false anything I have said is what is causing you and others to call me out on my hunting success. Gotta deflect and distract from the truth some how. Show me my statements are wrong and I will shut my mouth. The words are there on many sites yet you try to deny them.

     I have no worries in any bar and as for proving the facts. Just read a few threads in here you will find the same words I put up as examples used by many bow hunters.  I always say many or most because I know not all are this way but when it is the over whelming  majority it is hard to separate the very few.

    As for but hurt the only one but hurt are the bow hunters who do not like facts that the can not prove wrong. Especially when there own words are used against them.

Yes, the things you have pointed out have been said by SOME people that bowhunt, but they are a minority. You are grouping a whole crap load of hunters that do not see things that way in with a few elitists.

I could honestly give two shits what your opinion of people that bowhunt is, but I will call BS on the type of nonsense you spew.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Hard for me to understand the "the rut is done by rifle season" comments. Some of the folks on here should really read up and spend some time understanding the actual process of the whitetail breeding season and phases.  

[Culvercreek hunt club]

On 11/11/2017 at 8:01 PM, Poppy said:

Chrisw & Papist,

You are partially correct.  Due to previous injuries and other physical issues, I no longer can hunt with my compound and fear I may not be able to cock a crossbow.  I bow hunted for over thirty years and enjoyed ever day I spent in the woods with my bow and now I would like to enjoy that peak rut again.  Maybe a little selfish, but after buying licenses for over 50 years, an old hunter can at least hope, can't he/she.  Thank you for you replies.

get a crossbow with a hand crank. an 8 year old can cock a crossbow with one. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

12 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

get a crossbow with a hand crank. an 8 year old can cock a crossbow with one. 

Or one of those air powered jobs. The Parker something or other. No effort necessary.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

5 hours ago, Doc said:

I realize that on an internet forum, we can say anything and claim it as fact. However, pure BS is usually pretty easy to spot. When I read things where it is claimed that bowhunting is "too easy", that starts to flunk the BS test and just like all the other anti-hunting organizations and individuals, it reeks of just some more anti-hunting propaganda. I remember a few years back when animal rights organizations announced that their primary target in their anti-hunting campaign was going to be bowhunting. Well, it sounds like we are hearing from one of the infiltrators now.

99.8% of statistics are made up...lol

[Five Seasons]

On 11/11/2017 at 3:41 AM, Doc said:

This is the most interesting reply in the whole thread. I believe this just might be true. A shorter season would put a bit of urgency and intensity back into the season. People have become so comfortable with having an almost unlimited amount of time to get their deer that they seem to lose complete interest after the first couple of days. I think a lot of hunters suffer from burn-out long before the season ends. And then I have to wonder how that burn-out impacts their desire to go out in subsequent years.

Yes, it is nice to have so much season that you can fit hunting days into a tight schedule. But when you can postpone your hunting almost indefinitely, you have to wonder how that effects the dedication and intensity and motivation. How does that translate into deer movement?

I know there are days after opening weekend where it is hard to remember that deer season is even open. It gets to a point where you hear fewer shots than you did back in small game season. Just enough hunters to keep the deer aware that there are still hunters out there, keeping them in survival mode. But not enough to keep deer moving through the day to offer actual opportunities.

I don't know, maybe deer hunting would become a lot more active, exciting, and intense if it were shorter.

 

I just think it'd be kind of fun. We all know most casual hunters in NY are only out opening weekend and how exciting it can be. Imagine if that experience was 10 days or so? 

On 11/11/2017 at 4:39 AM, wfmiller said:

Shortened gun season is something the die hard bow hunters want. They want the bow season extended. Every time I read about I see that same thing said. I love bow hunting, but things are going just fine right now. If you think the season is to long and you don't like hunting it that long, then stay home and leave the rest of us alone.

not true. almost all bowhunters are gun hunters. I'm happy to be hanging up my bow and switching to gun. We all enjoy the change, especially after this last weekend when it was so cold that it's not conducive to bow hunting.

On 11/11/2017 at 7:22 AM, BigVal said:

Become elite, bow season October 1 - December 1, then a week of gun. Then done. Lol

too long a season imo. see above.

14 hours ago, stubby68 said:

       I bow hunted for quite a few years and never had a year when I didn't take deer. The neighbors didn't bow hunt in fact very few people around the area did so no worries of them getting deer before gun season. 

Actually I have put up pictures of the deer I have taken many times infact. You can tell nothing about someone from what they post on the internet. No matter what you think you know about them the truth is almost always far from what you think.

        I rant about nothing. Rants are based on nothing but opinion.  Absolutely everything I have said about bow hunters is true. They are facts based on the exact words used by bow hunters every single time a thread like this comes up. Go to any hunting site and you can read the Samy words from many more bow hunters then just the ones here. All one needs to do is read the threads here they can quickly see the words from the b on hunters. Can you dispute this in any way? Are these statements and words I have used not words used by bow hunters? That fact that they are and that you can not dispute or prove false anything I have said is what is causing you and others to call me out on my hunting success. Gotta deflect and distract from the truth some how. Show me my statements are wrong and I will shut my mouth. The words are there on many sites yet you try to deny them.

     I have no worries in any bar and as for proving the facts. Just read a few threads in here you will find the same words I put up as examples used by many bow hunters.  I always say many or most because I know not all are this way but when it is the over whelming  majority it is hard to separate the very few.

    As for but hurt the only one but hurt are the bow hunters who do not like facts that the can not prove wrong. Especially when there own words are used against them.

I have trouble with most things you write for a few reasons. You claim to have never lost a deer in all your years. You claim you feel nothing and deer are just meat to you. And iirc, you also would pass a big 12 for a nice eating small buck. I'm sorry that you stopped bowhunting because of others. I sure as shit would never let someone else stop me from doing something i love. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Belo

[Five Seasons]

On 11/12/2017 at 8:34 AM, stubby68 said:

I am forgetting nothing a bow hunter who also hunts with a gun still considers himself a bow hunter.  You your self just said it. You said most of us bow hunters use a gun also. Why did you seperate the two. You could have said alot of HUNTERS  use both weapons, but you didn't.There words alone show us that. How many threads on this very subject have there been or posts on crossbow hunting. In every one there is post after post referring to gun hunters as slobs. Orange army, brown is down clowns. Gene hunters do not have what it takes they are lazy and many more things said against hunters who use guns.

       Bo hunters have there own separate season. Why is this needed? Why do bow hunters have there own special tag? You guys say you hunt with bows for the chalange yet want your own special time in the woods with no disturbance from others to minimize  the chalange. If you actually like the challenges then why not just one season with any weapon?  Wouldn't  that add to the challenge you guy speed of? Kind of like a kid playing football wanting the other kids to step down there skills so he can score. Last I knew Peta was against all hunting yet you statement suggest that are just bow hunting.

         Do hunters who use only guns have the own separate web  pages?  How many forums are bow hunting forums? Many right? How many are gun hunting forums? I can think of none. There are hunting forums where bow hunter and gun hunters talk shop yet a bow forum is about bow hunting not a jus hunting. Do hunters who use guns have there own organization like the nysbha?

            Do hunters who use guns push for shorter bow season? No but hunters who use bows sure do push for a shorter gun season. When a different weapon was introduced in to gun season ( the rifle ) did gun hunters fight against it? Nope not at all we saw it as another type of gun to use maybe a better one. Try to introduce another weapon into bow season ( the crossbow) and the sky is falling.  Bow hunters sure fight that and it is nothing more then another type of bow to use.

             Bitterness comes from emotions. My statements about bow hunters come from facts. Yes facts not just something I think or feel. Facts that are proved time and time again. Proven by the same people who try to claim they are not facts yet in trying to disprove the facts use the same words and statements I pointed out and more . Thus proving my point further.

Bo - Bow

there - their

Gene - Jean

 

Sincerely,

-Elitist Bow Hunter

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Belo

[wfmiller]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

 

not true. almost all bowhunters are gun hunters. I'm happy to be hanging up my bow and switching to gun. We all enjoy the change, especially after this last weekend when it was so cold that it's not conducive to bow hunting.

 

 

I said die hard bowhunters, meaning the guys that only use bows.

[Five Seasons]

I said die hard bowhunters, meaning the guys that only use bows.

I bet you that is 2% of NY hunters, so who cares?


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[wfmiller]

7 hours ago, Belo said:

especially after this last weekend when it was so cold that it's not conducive to bow hunting.

Why is cold not conducive to bow hunting?

[Five Seasons]

Why is cold not conducive to bow hunting?

With a bunch of layers on it can get in the way of your draw, muscles tighten up in the cold etc.


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[wfmiller]

5 minutes ago, Belo said:

 

With a bunch of layers on it can get in the way of your draw, muscles tighten up in the cold etc.


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I'll take the layers and tight muscles over t-shirts and bees while in the stand.

[Robhuntandfish]

10 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Yes, the things you have pointed out have been said by SOME people that bowhunt, but they are a minority. You are grouping a whole crap load of hunters that do not see things that way in with a few elitists.

I could honestly give two shits what your opinion of people that bowhunt is, but I will call BS on the type of nonsense you spew.

Here's the funny part too WNY.  I started this topic and am a die hard bowhunter.  Lol but I thought it wasn't right or make sense to shorten the gun hunting season. A die hard bowhunter sticking up for other hunters .  I do gun hunt but mostly just like opening day.   So much for us elite bowhunters wanting it all to themselves.  Lol

[Death From Above]

On 11/12/2017 at 3:03 PM, Csk21 said:

I live and hunt the the southern part of northern teir, about 5 miles from the line. 

For all intents and purposes the conditions seem very similar to the southern zone. (Lots of ag fields with pockets if bigger woods here and there)

I think for the area, firearm season is way to long. October 14-December 3...51 days.

That is a long stretch for deer to evade hunters and not slip up. 

I wouldn't mind seeing the NZ season brought in line with the SZ.

I agree with this post 100%.  I'd give just about anything to have a three week gun season up here in Jefferson county like the southern tier has.  I grew up in the southern tier, and I hunted many seasons down there.  I can certainly understand why some argue that the three week gun season is long when compared with many states.  However, I'll never complain about that ever again, after spending the past 10-12 years here in the "northern zone" and witnessing the 9 weeks of gun season (two of which is muzzleloader).  The gun season is WAY TOO LONG up here.  We aren't talking about having to track down bucks in the Adirondacks snow to kill one.  This is farm land just like down south. 

If our game laws are set and determined based on the supposed management of the herd as mentioned previously in this thread, I'd love to hear why there is a two week bow season followed by nine weeks of gun up here.  There is no reason, explanation or necessity for  the season structure here.  For this reason I say YES, there is a very legitimate reason for some hunters (whether they be bow or gun hunters) to ask for shorter gun season.  If the area has an unnecessarily pro-longed gun season, then I think its fine to be in favor of shortening the season.

Disclaimer:  I am a bow hunter, and I am a gun hunter. However, I have chose NOT to hunt deer in NY with my gun.  Don't know if that makes me an elitist or not, I will let Stubby decide.

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

12 hours ago, Death From Above said:

Disclaimer:   However, I have chose NOT to hunt deer in NY with my gun. 

Why?

[chas0218]

On 11/10/2017 at 9:36 AM, Robhuntandfish said:

so if your sick of hunting then just dont hunt.  Take a break.  A lot of guys dont get anytime off to hunt so its not fair to shorten season because some people are tired of it.  Also if its to try to get bigger bucks how is the answer to shorten season so you dont get time to see them....still makes no sense to me.  

If I took a break my property would be over run with trespassers. After the first 2 weeks I only go out and sit to keep people off my property. Pretty sad but true. No presence in the woods basically gives all the local scum bags free reign.

I would like to see a shortened season and 1 buck rule if they aren't going to do statewide ARs.

[chas0218]

On 11/13/2017 at 5:44 AM, aboa13 said:

Fair point. I more often then not fill my doe tags. And let the small bucks walk. Last 3 years. No bucks. I'd rather shoot a doe then a 4 point.


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Sad part is there are people that pass doe that are bigger than the 4 point they shoot because they are meat hunters. I always get a good chuckle out of their justification of shooting a 4 point or smaller buck.

[mattman77]

I'm in saint Lawrence county (northern zone) Gun season is ridiculously long. It is a rarity to see a buck reach 3.5 years. I know guys who hunted everyday all season long and have not seen a mature buck - because they are not there. Trail cams also back this up. I would like to see NY mirror some of Ohio's regs or Southern Zone.

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[chas0218]

4 minutes ago, mattman77 said:

I'm in saint Lawrence county (northern zone) Gun season is ridiculously long. It is a rarity to see a buck reach 3.5 years. I know guys who hunted everyday all season long and have not seen a mature buck - because they are not there. Trail cams also back this up. I would like to see NY mirror some of Ohio's regs or Southern Zone.

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Yeah I can't figure out why your guys season is so long. I would like to see all of NY go to the same season dates but do an early muzzleloader like the northern zone instead of regular season first. Almost like going from most limited implement to least limited. Start with bow then crossbow muzzleloader then regular season. It makes the most sense but we all know how far common sense will get you when talking politics.

[mattman77]

My understanding of the long 50 day gun season is that it was meant to help out the guys in the ADKs who need time to find a deer. My problem is that the ADKs only represents a portion of the Northern Zone. I am actually north of the ADKs and the terrain is very similar to southern NY. We have big dairy up here with a lot of agriculture. I think if the gun season were limited, the area could put up some really big deer. The problem is that with current regs, that will not happen. Most hunters in this area go to the southern zone or out of state for a better chance at a mature deer. I know everyone has different goals. Personally, I would like to see more mature deer and rut activity, as do most of my friends/ neighbors. I have no problems with youngsters or first timers shooting small ones. I think a 1 buck rule for the northern zone makes a lot of sense. If u only get 1, u become a little more selective. I think it would spare a lot of spikes and a few 2 year olds. I would like archery season to go into November. Our bow season up here sucks.

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[Death From Above]

10 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Why?

I hunt Pennsylvania with a rifle because I am only there for a couple days (first three of gun), I hunt state land, its the tradition I enjoy with friends at "deer Camp".  I like to gun hunt for sure.

I do occasionally make the opener in the southern tier and use a shotgun for that first day, but there again it due to the fact I don't hang stands there and the pinball feel of an opening day.

I hunt the northern tier of NY with bow because I live there, have time to put in numerous food plots, have quite a few stands (around 50 stands on 500+ acres - not just me that hunts these properties), and I put a lot of time into scouting and monitoring way too many trail cameras.  I enjoy the challenge of the bow and arrow harvest.  If I see a deer with a gun in my hand it seems like 90% of the time I just have to decide if I want to shoot it or not.  If I see a deer with a bow in my grip it can be at 10 yards and I still have no certainly that it might turn into a shot opportunity.  Guess I love the excitement of that scenario.  I also use the bow if I make trips to states like Ohio, Illinois or Kansas. 

The only reason I mentioned the fact of what I hunt with in the northern zone was just to be honest that I may have other reason that I dislike the crazy, ridiculously long gun season in the NZ.

[Steve D]

Just my two cents

First and foremost I am a bow hunter. I also hunt with a gun and have shot a lot more deer with the gun than my bow.

The major difference between gun & bow season is it requires a lot more skill and quite a bit of luck to harvest one with a bow.

Unless you are a spot & stalk hunter the only real skill required after the first fifteen minutes of opening day is the ability to be able to shoot straight.

Bow hunting requires the hunter to get relatively close and in order to do that there needs to be a little bit of knowledge of  the whitetail and the area that has been selected to hunt.

    A significant number of “gun” hunters only hit the woods on opening day and maybe a few days during the season.

A good majority of “gun” hunters I have encountered do not have a clue about anything except where they are going to sit on each hunt and some are not sure about that. When I set in the woods during gun season and hear the number of consecutive shots I shake my head knowing that more than likely the deer was missed and got away or wounded never to be found.

 I personally hate to see gun season come or should I say see bow season end. Do bow hunters have an edge as far as when the season is…ABSOLUTELY  but that doesn’t mean they are more successful.

   One reason I don’t like gun season is because it has a tendency to shut everything else down. Guys with dogs have a tendency to not run them because  landowners don’t want hunting until “after the first week of deer season” or the entire deer season; or the possibility of loosing one or having one shot. Trappers tend not to trap during deer season because of land owners not wanting them on during deer season or having their traps checked and sets ruined because of deer hunters.

   There is nothing like the experience of getting in the woods early in a spot you feel confident in and when the sun comes up to see another orange jacket not 50 yards away only to find out it is their first time there. Or you have settled into your spot for a long sit and have someone or a group come marching through.

  I don’t think it is the “gun” season that everyone is against as much as the kind of stereotype hunter that has been portrayed over time.

 I personally would support one deer season with the same dates as now, with the number of tags to be determined by DEC. During that season take a deer(s) with the legal implement of your choice. Take it any time during the entire open season with your legal weapon of choice and be done with it.

    That may do away with all the hoopla and craziness that goes on the “opening” day of gun season.

[ccondid1]

The argument for a shorter gun season lies not in the bow hunter versus gun hunter debate as many who have read this thread have been mislead to believe. The arguement is for improving the health of the whitetail deer herd. This is well supported by scientific research. Despite the science this is a complex issue and hunters need to be informed on this in order to make the best decisions to support the longevity of our sport. The DEC's decision making process is to balance the two sides of the trophy hunter vs meat hunter disparity. So lets all take an unbiased look at the statistics and sciendce before taking this any further. 

Lets look at the year 2016 for an example of numbers:

- In NYS 78% of deer harvested in the calendar year are killed by firearms 

- 27,199 bucks were killed with archery equipment/ 107,006 bucks with firearms (79% of all bucks are taken by firearms)

Based on these numbers we can be certain that the firearms season has a much greater impact on the buck (and doe) population that the archery season. If we were to shorten the season we would have more bucks surviving to maturity thus improving the age structure of the herd. Age structure is a summary of the number of individuals in the herd of each age group i.e. fawns, 1.5 year old bucks, 2.5 year old bucks, and so on. Research shows that herds with an imbalance of young bucks leads to does not being bred until their 2nd or 3rd estrous cycle. This leaves their fawns born 1-2 months later making them less likely to survive the subsequent winter. Additionally when young bucks are allowed to do the bulk of the breding, due to the lack of mature bucks, their body weights drop low enough to compromise their ability to survive the winter. 

The evidence was also presented earlier in the thread that the "Big Buck" states of the Mid West have short gun seasons. This leads to better herd dynamics and improved trophy quality, despite high numbers of deer taken.  

So here we have information that  tells us shorted firearms seasons could improve herd health and increase number of mature bucks in the woods. I dont know any hunters who would say that more mature bucks in the woods is a bad thing. This drives up hunter interest and allows for hunter retention. One of the most critical threats to the future of hunting is diminishing hunter interst and the lack of a voice of the hunter masses in politics. It is currently our privilage as US citizens to go out and hunt, however we need to make an effort to be informed on how hunting is conservation to convince the non-hunters of our value. 

Are there other ways we could achieve improved age structure.. yes! These include changing to a 1 buck per hunter regardless of weapon system, earn a buck programs, antler restrictions, move the firearms season further back from the rut ect. None of which are all that appealing to most because they are more restrictive regulations and force certain behaviors that not all value. 

To reitierate the reason for this type of change is not to support bow hunters more than gun hunters. It is to reduce the harvest of bucks to improve age structure of the herd for overall health and opportunity for more mature bucks. I realize this is long winded and complex to a certain extent. I do feel that this is critical information to know when thinking about these issues and not pitting this as a this groupp versus that group arguement. The dividing of hunters as a whole is a tactic that anti hunters will use in the future to try and remove our privalge to hunt. It is our job as hunters to be educated, vocal, and aware of the issues that effect the beautiful pastime we all share. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hock3y24]

I cant stand how long firearms season is here. wish it was 1-2 weeks kinda like pa is.