Dutchess County Poacher

[Culvercreek hunt club]

12 hours ago, Zem18 said:

Just a thought I'm having while reading this. ( Sorry for long post)
I have a tree stand that is under 25 yards from 2 natural apple trees. My FIL planted several varieties of apple trees several years ago that are low fenced in about another 30 yards past that.
This coming year we plan to put in a few 80 to 100 foot strips of some sort of food plot to keep deer coming to the area near the small orchard in the field. Many of the shows on TV call it " farming for wildlife". Couldn't this be considered baiting or is it termed " attracting" and what is the difference.

I'm not planting food plots to eat from, I want to attract deer. Wouldn't this be a form of baiting? And it doesn't matter if you are in a tree stand or on the ground in a pop up blind or natural blind or even just standing behind a tree trying not to be seen, you are still there to try and attract and kill wildlife. You stack the odds in your favor to get sightings in. So pouring out some corn or apples by your stand is wrong, but hunting over a "kill food plot" is totally acceptable or near apple trees or an orchard. Or the stand on the edge of the corn field that the deer hit every evening.

Some people jumped all over the guy who put liquid attractant on a stump all summer and then hunted over it. It's not much different than planting a food plot, except for being quicker and both are geared at attracting wildlife in order to kill them.

I know right from wrong and am familiar with the laws but this whole " baiting" debate seems to always be a gray area and causes some dissention among the ranks. Just curious to hear others opinions on food plots, hunting by corn fields, or an orchard, and why those aren't considered baiting as well.

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DEC's determination is that food plots, even if solely for wildlife, is not baiting. 

[Dom]

Poaching should be a Felony and yes take away their freedom.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

27 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

DEC's determination is that food plots, even if solely for wildlife, is not baiting. 

They also determined that CWD can be spread by urine when its never been a proven fact?   All depends on the agenda of the day  

[Rebel Darling]

12 hours ago, Zem18 said:

Just a thought I'm having while reading this. ( Sorry for long post)
I have a tree stand that is under 25 yards from 2 natural apple trees. My FIL planted several varieties of apple trees several years ago that are low fenced in about another 30 yards past that.
This coming year we plan to put in a few 80 to 100 foot strips of some sort of food plot to keep deer coming to the area near the small orchard in the field. Many of the shows on TV call it " farming for wildlife". Couldn't this be considered baiting or is it termed " attracting" and what is the difference.

I'm not planting food plots to eat from, I want to attract deer. Wouldn't this be a form of baiting? And it doesn't matter if you are in a tree stand or on the ground in a pop up blind or natural blind or even just standing behind a tree trying not to be seen, you are still there to try and attract and kill wildlife. You stack the odds in your favor to get sightings in. So pouring out some corn or apples by your stand is wrong, but hunting over a "kill food plot" is totally acceptable or near apple trees or an orchard. Or the stand on the edge of the corn field that the deer hit every evening.

Some people jumped all over the guy who put liquid attractant on a stump all summer and then hunted over it. It's not much different than planting a food plot, except for being quicker and both are geared at attracting wildlife in order to kill them.

I know right from wrong and am familiar with the laws but this whole " baiting" debate seems to always be a gray area and causes some dissention among the ranks. Just curious to hear others opinions on food plots, hunting by corn fields, or an orchard, and why those aren't considered baiting as well.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk
 

 

11 hours ago, Storm914 said:

I think the difference is what the bait is if you are using something that is much more attractive to deer then what is naturally found in its  natural environment  it  definitely  is baiting and definitely not ethical for example using salt lick . But just 

Someone planting trees or plants that deer like is not baiting because those are things that are found natraully in the deers environment there's no such thing as a Salt Lick tree know what I'm saying.

 

 

I think it's a pretty reasonable distinction.

Your food plot can do poorly. Your apple trees might not produce fruit, like mine the past two years.  The deer might not like your turnips until a hard frost, they might prefer clover early and eat it up before season.  That's attracting.  It's not guaranteed.

But that pile of corn that gets replenished every few days, or a pile of apples that gets topped off every so often?  Yeah, that's baiting, without a doubt.  That's a guaranteed food supply.

If deer are congregating around a guaranteed food supply, like bird seed, and someone decides to hunt over that guaranteed food supply?  That's poaching.

I think it's a pretty reasonable distinction.

[Water Rat]

http://southwestdutchess.dailyvoice.com/news/state-increases-fines-for-hunting-deer-out-of-season/728039/

[Hunter007]

6 minutes ago, Water Rat said:

http://southwestdutchess.dailyvoice.com/news/state-increases-fines-for-hunting-deer-out-of-season/728039/

It would be nice if they take that money and buy up  land for hunting closer to  places that people live by so some guys  do not have to drive far away   to find some land to hunt on .

[Renegade Hunter]

This guy was lucky I’m not a poacher... or it wasn’t gun season. I probably would have whacked him from the back deck if it were gun season. My uncle ended up getting him with the crossbow though. 

[Nomad]

46 minutes ago, Dom said:

Poaching should be a Felony and yes take away their freedom.

Never happen . With so many crimes against people resulting  in little in the way of punishment  . You can kill,people with your car and serve some week ends in jail .

Reminds me of Alice's Restaurant .  

 

Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father
Rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And
They was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the
Bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest
Father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly
'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me
And said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay
$50 and pick up the garbage. " He said, "What were you arrested for, kid? "
And I said, "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the bench
There, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I

[cbyzerman]

Give me a break with the nonsense about baiting.  Who cares about the baiting, its friggin legal in new jersey, ct, pa, ohio. Give me a break.  The real issue is shooting that buck at night. 

[Rebel Darling]

3 minutes ago, cbyzerman said:

Give me a break with the nonsense about baiting.  Who cares about the baiting, its friggin legal in new jersey, ct, pa, ohio. Give me a break.  The real issue is shooting that buck at night. 

Baiting ain't legal in NY. 

[cbyzerman]

Im just saying that its not that big a deal compared to the shooting in dark.  I dont bait do not care to but I think alot people maybe naive to how many people do.  Had a guy swear he doesnt bait and is against it and I just so happen to run into him at gas station with big tarp over bed of truck so I took a peak and there was 2 giant bins of apples. lol then proceeded to tell him its just to get pictures. Alot of people do it.  Does not make it right but I think shooting in dark is 100x worse offense 

[Hunter007]

35 minutes ago, cbyzerman said:

Im just saying that its not that big a deal compared to the shooting in dark.  I dont bait do not care to but I think alot people maybe naive to how many people do.  Had a guy swear he doesnt bait and is against it and I just so happen to run into him at gas station with big tarp over bed of truck so I took a peak and there was 2 giant bins of apples. lol then proceeded to tell him its just to get pictures. Alot of people do it.  Does not make it right but I think shooting in dark is 100x worse offense 

Well maybe not to you but if someone is  hunting state land and even private land and next to them is some clown with a feeder sucking up all the near by deer to stay on his property . Not to mention it spreads disease easier between animals when they are  in close proximity to each other like that.

I think you would have a different stance 

 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Poaching should be a Felony and yes take away their freedom.

You are naive if you think that would ever be a possibility. I know what it took and how watered down it had to change to get the new poaching legislation through. And that was just to raise fines.

Dom. What other violations of the law should be changed to felonies?

[Hunter007]

10 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You are naive if you think that would ever be a possibility. I know what it took and how watered down it had to change to get the new poaching legislation through. And that was just to raise fines.

Dom. What other violations of the law should be changed to felonies?

It is really expensive to keep  someone in jail so what he is saying is not  even a practical idea .

What are they going to do let out worse criminals for poachers.  

Edited December 5, 2017 by Storm914

[Rebel Darling]

53 minutes ago, cbyzerman said:

Im just saying that its not that big a deal compared to the shooting in dark.  I dont bait do not care to but I think alot people maybe naive to how many people do.  Had a guy swear he doesnt bait and is against it and I just so happen to run into him at gas station with big tarp over bed of truck so I took a peak and there was 2 giant bins of apples. lol then proceeded to tell him its just to get pictures. Alot of people do it.  Does not make it right but I think shooting in dark is 100x worse offense 

I think the "it's not that big a deal," or "a lot of people do it" perspective helps proliferate the illegal activity.  Bait stations, shooting in the dark, or deer jacking often work together as parts of the poaching problem.

I also think baiting increases the chances of spreading communicable diseases among deer, CWD potentially being a big and serious problem to the deer herd in NYS.  I'd rather not hunt dying, inedible deer.

Shooting in the dark is without a doubt reckless and illegal (when hunting for deer), but baiting could be reckless from a biological perspective, and is still illegal in NY, whether nor not a lot of people do it.  The severity of punishment for both offenses, within the limits of the law, is up to a judge.

[Dom]

15 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

You are naive if you think that would ever be a possibility. I know what it took and how watered down it had to change to get the new poaching legislation through. And that was just to raise fines.

Dom. What other violations of the law should be changed to felonies?

It is a possibillity I'm not naive I have my opinion.It does cost alot of wasted money to lock them up/jail but a revocation of their license and their ability to poach another animal is just a matter of a few buttons pushed on a computer like I'm doing now.Most of these offenders will never be stopped no matter what.Also Hunting is a privlage .

[Culvercreek hunt club]

6 minutes ago, Dom said:

It is a possibillity I'm not naive I have my opinion.It does cost alot of wasted money to lock them up/jail but a revocation of their license and their ability to poach another animal is just a matter of a few buttons pushed on a computer like I'm doing now.Most of these offenders will never be stopped no matter what.Also Hunting is a privlage .

If you were involved in the new poaching legislation you would know it is NOT a possibility. Unfortunately even taking the license away won't work. They have proven they are a criminal and not having a little yellow piece of paper in their pocket won't stop them. I wish the higher fines that were in the original write up for the poaching bill would have stood but the elected officials weren't having it. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, Rebel Darling said:

I think the "it's not that big a deal," or "a lot of people do it" perspective helps proliferate the illegal activity.  Bait stations, shooting in the dark, or deer jacking often work together as parts of the poaching problem.

I also think baiting increases the chances of spreading communicable diseases among deer, CWD potentially being a big and serious problem to the deer herd in NYS.  I'd rather not hunt dying, inedible deer.

Shooting in the dark is without a doubt reckless and illegal (when hunting for deer), but baiting could be reckless from a biological perspective, and is still illegal in NY, whether nor not a lot of people do it.  The severity of punishment for both offenses, within the limits of the law, is up to a judge.

I've called in a bait station 3 times that is near my work and it is still there after 3 years. 

[Rebel Darling]

4 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I've called in a bait station 3 times that is near my work and it is still there after 3 years. 

Thank you.  I hope you keep trying.

[Dom]

7 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

If you were involved in the new poaching legislation you would know it is NOT a possibility. Unfortunately even taking the license away won't work. They have proven they are a criminal and not having a little yellow piece of paper in their pocket won't stop them. I wish the higher fines that were in the original write up for the poaching bill would have stood but the elected officials weren't having it. 

First I am involved and if you would read what I post then you would see where I said nothing is going to stop them from poaching.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

8 minutes ago, Dom said:

First I am involved and if you would read what I post then you would see where I said nothing is going to stop them from poaching.

what was your involvement in it Dom? I don't recognize you from your screen name. 

[Dom]

41 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

It is really expensive to keep  someone in jail so what he is saying is not  even a practical idea .

What are they going to do let out worse criminals for poachers.  

No we do not let out worse crimanals but maybe put thge poachers on a work program to clean up the enviroment/and still remove their ability to poach again

[Hunter007]

22 minutes ago, Dom said:

No we do not let out worse crimanals but maybe put thge poachers on a work program to clean up the enviroment/and still remove their ability to poach again

Then you still have to waist time and money to watch over them .

Still expensive who is going to watch to see if they are working . Not practical to do that . 

A  nice big fat fine I think would help more then anything else .  And with that money you can help create more park land  for deer .

[cbyzerman]

Watch over poachers?  Are you people for real? It is a friggin deer.  We dont even watch over pedophiles but we are gonna watch out to make sure someone doesnt kill a deer.  LOL Just when you think youve heard it all...........

[growalot]

Guys they have time lines given for when to put feeders out in your yard...The DEC has openly said and fined people for wildlife feeding bear,deer and turkey in back yard feeders...I have 4 out right now and a bag of feed in the car trunk...they will stay empty until end of season. This is not new..even a compost pile can land you trouble.  yep there is that shooting after hours again or before.....

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/94709.html