What's the difference? Baiting vs. Attracting

[Rebel Darling]

4 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Methods may be different but both men leave with money. The reason they went to the bank in the first place.

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Yes.  Exactly.  There is a difference between the two. 

[chrisw]

Yes.  Exactly.  There is a difference between the two. 

That depends on how you look at it. It seems time and money keep coming up as a big difference in the two. Let's say I build a custom rifle, I make the stock, barrel etc... The next door neighbor buys a package Savage Axis. We both hunt, we both kill a deer. Is my hunt more worthy because I spent more time and money building my rifle?

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[Rebel Darling]

4 minutes ago, chrisw said:

That depends on how you look at it. It seems time and money keep coming up as a big difference in the two. Let's say I build a custom rifle, I make the stock, barrel etc... The next door neighbor buys a package Savage Axis. We both hunt, we both kill a deer. Is my hunt more worthy because I spent more time and money building my rifle?

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Which one is a short-cut?

[chrisw]

Which one is a short-cut?

Neither in my opinion. So you'd say the custom build was a better hunt? More ethical? More deserving?

BTW... I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here because it's a matter of perspective.

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

LOL...You guys are getting carried away here.. I think we can all agree that they are both used for the purpose of bringing a deer to you so you can kill it. A plot will help more deer and animals than a pile will but the both are them are designed to get the same job done.

[chrisw]

LOL...You guys are getting carried away here.. I think we can all agree that they are both used for the purpose of bringing a deer to you so you can kill it. A plot will help more deer and animals than a pile will but the both are them are designed to get the same job done.

I agree 100%.

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[Rebel Darling]

3 minutes ago, chrisw said:

Neither in my opinion. So you'd say the custom build was a better hunt? More ethical? More deserving?

BTW... I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate here because it's a matter of perspective.

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My position and point here is that there's a difference between the two.  The goal at the end does not diminish the difference in methods to achieve it.  The value judgement at the end?  That's where many of us will part ways, and NYS and DEC make a legal determination on it. 

My personal opinion is that baiting (dumping a bag of apples, or a bag of corn) is a short-cut to achieve the same end as planting a plot.  They are not the same to me.  Baiting also has the opportunity to be a more reliable source of food than a plot or a tended orchard.  I mentioned it in a prior post: one method plays by Nature's rules, and the other according to Man's convenience.  I try to play by Nature's rules.  I value that hunt more than I'd value the kill over a bag of apples.  That's just me...  The hunt is more than just the food at the end in my perspective.

[genesee_mohican]

Sitting here and thinking about the question, I know the difference, but I think the hunters that have some acreage and plant an acre of corn on one side of the stand and an acre of some green "whitetail delights" on the other side are at far more of an advantage than some one who's walking in apples or deercain or what ever you call it. A pile of bait would be a smaller, sporadic food source, where one is leaving scent and bumping deer every time they walk in to load it back up. 

 Good for the guy that has acreage and can manage it legally for deer, they are lucky.

[wildcat junkie]

On 12/11/2017 at 5:02 PM, reeltime said:

normal "waste or spillage" while actually harvesting crops (corn, soy beans, sunflowers, etc) is not considered baiting, neither is leaving said crops standing.

With that said if you go in and just brush hog, or pull corn or soybeans off and pile them up by your hunting location and yes even if you shake the apple tree to artificially put more apples on the ground where you are hunting all can be considered baiting.

 

When spillage results in a pile of corn, such as might happen when trucks are loaded with an auger, it is considered baiting by federal waterfowl regulations.

[reeltime]

39 minutes ago, wildcat junkie said:

When spillage results in a pile of corn, such as might happen when trucks are loaded with an auger, it is considered baiting by federal waterfowl regulations.

that would be correct sir,  those are the loading or off loading locations but barring those locations the normal missed, dropped grain while harvesting is not considered baiting....with that being said don't pick up missed ears of corn and toss them into your spread.  for the most part they are not going to hassle you unless something looks out of place, for example little to no spilled corn in the field except throughout your spread the ground is covered with corn,,,in that case you are likely to get a few tickets.

 

[reeltime]

6 hours ago, Four Season Whitetails said:

LOL...You guys are getting carried away here.. I think we can all agree that they are both used for the purpose of bringing a deer to you so you can kill it. A plot will help more deer and animals than a pile will but the both are them are designed to get the same job done.

yes they both get the same basic job done.  The biggest difference is the fact that baiting with a timed feeder you can regulate when and where the deer will show up.  I have watched first hand at my buddies place in jersey where they feed all year long, when that feeder goes off the deer and turkeys RUN out of the woods to the feeding area.  The food plots they just meander in and out through out the day and night and the food variety benefits all different species of wildlife from mice to bears and a wide variety of birds.  If taken care of properly provides food 12 months a year for all wildlife.

I think a lot of the disdain for plots is the misconception that they have deer standing in them all day long just waiting to get shot and if you go by all the tv shows its understandable how a person could think that's how it is but nothing could be farther from the truth.  how many folks on this board did food plots this past season and how many shot deer in them and how many hours was spent to get that deer in a plot?

 

[moog5050]

15 minutes ago, reeltime said:

yes they both get the same basic job done.  The biggest difference is the fact that baiting with a timed feeder you can regulate when and where the deer will show up.  I have watched first hand at my buddies place in jersey where they feed all year long, when that feeder goes off the deer and turkeys RUN out of the woods to the feeding area.  The food plots they just meander in and out through out the day and night and the food variety benefits all different species of wildlife from mice to bears and a wide variety of birds.  If taken care of properly provides food 12 months a year for all wildlife.

I think a lot of the disdain for plots is the misconception that they have deer standing in them all day long just waiting to get shot and if you go by all the tv shows its understandable how a person could think that's how it is but nothing could be farther from the truth.  how many folks on this board did food plots this past season and how many shot deer in them and how many hours was spent to get that deer in a plot?

 

I agree 100 percent.  

[Four Season Whitetail's]

1 hour ago, reeltime said:

yes they both get the same basic job done.  The biggest difference is the fact that baiting with a timed feeder you can regulate when and where the deer will show up.  I have watched first hand at my buddies place in jersey where they feed all year long, when that feeder goes off the deer and turkeys RUN out of the woods to the feeding area.  The food plots they just meander in and out through out the day and night and the food variety benefits all different species of wildlife from mice to bears and a wide variety of birds.  If taken care of properly provides food 12 months a year for all wildlife.

I think a lot of the disdain for plots is the misconception that they have deer standing in them all day long just waiting to get shot and if you go by all the tv shows its understandable how a person could think that's how it is but nothing could be farther from the truth.  how many folks on this board did food plots this past season and how many shot deer in them and how many hours was spent to get that deer in a plot?

 

True but dead is dead.   The deer that use our plots are  pretty much evening deer and come about the same each evening.

I make it a point to make sure our local bucks have feed thru out the early winter and early spring before green up. Nothing hurts a bucks following year rack than coming out of winter hungry and weak in the body. All his effort will go to getting his body back before much goes to the antlers. We have many that winter on us and close by so they can get to the free eats at will.

[Just Lucky]

I agree food plots and baiting are same thing. I have hunted on farm land and old apple orchards. Deer sightings are more. Food plots are a form of baiting. You can put a plot in with expensive eqipment or a hoe. Now you can also spend alot of time and money on corn and spreader over a period of time or just get a bag dump it and hope it works. All do the same thing, a deer has gotta eat just like us. The only real difference in my opinion is if you put in plots youll tend to justify and call it something else. I dont have an issue with either to be honest. None have effected the outcomes of my hunting success,  but maybe i feel hunting is more than harvesting. 

[Death From Above]

I disagree.  I feel that food plots and baiting are completely different.

Food plots…they take a lot of time and effort to put in, and this does not go unnoticed to the deer.  They can smell and sense the intrusion.  For instance, it often takes one trip to spray, then another to cut, then another to spray again, a trip for lime/fertilizer, a trip to seed depending on how long you wait from the second spray, then maybe more for cutting or spraying a grass killer after the growth begins.  The deer have had plenty of warning that this is a higher than normal traffic area for humans.  Add card pulls at cameras and stand maintenance, and we have left proof of our presence quite a bit regardless of how careful we try to be.  Believe me, deer adjust to this intrusion and its very similar to hunting over an ag field.  The aroma of whatever might be planted in that food plot comes with the knowledge they already have of how much time we have spent in that general area.  It just is not as simple to kill a deer in a food plot as many might think.  I personally feel that many who disagree with this have not put plots of their own in before, or are watching the TV guys kill unmolested deer in the Midwest.  For every picture of a deer in one of our food plots during daylight we likely have a dozen of deer in the dark.   Believe me, food plots don’t make deer dumb, but I think baiting can make deer "dumber" at times.

Baiting…it requires no prior entrance to the area, time, or much presence.  Drop it off and hunt it for a couple days.  I personally have never hunted over bait, but I have hunted in states like Ohio and Kansas that do allow it.  Those guys don’t put it out to draw deer to it in the dark.  They know they are putting a strong scent – AND A NEW SCENT – that draws them in in the daylight. If it draws does, bucks will follow.  The deer have had no opportunity to become accustom to this change, they can be very unaware.  It is definitely a short cut, and it can hit them at times when they are searching for food desperately when it is suddenly in much shorter supply. 

Yes, I have a good number of food plots, and almost all of them have stands over them or nearby.  Funny that we rarely kill deer in them though.  Our plots do help feed and hold deer, and I cannot argue that.  Our neighbors may not like that, but they benefit directly from it whether they know it or not.  I love the process of putting them in and maintaining them, as in a way it extends my hunting season or the preparation for it.  But I don’t kill more deer because of them, and I don’t think it makes my hunting a lot easier.  It is just fun, and I hope makes for a healthier deer we get to harvest.    I don’t find a short cut in that scenario, but if I brought out a bag of corn and dumped it in front of my stand…that is completely different IMO.

[Just Lucky]

How many times does a guy go into the woods to fill his feeder? The deer wont pattern him? How much time does a guy spend finding a location deer travel to dump a pile of corn. If the guy feeds bags of corn to  all year long to the deer is he also helping the deer herd? And as i said food plots are different than "baiting" cause those who have them call it something different. I have been to western states such as ohio that allow it and i can tell you it works the same. Deer still see you, smell you and hear you. They still pattern you and look at you as a predator.  And will also take as much time and money to make it successful. 

[Rebel Darling]

I still can't get my mind around this...

Just because the end goal is the same does not mean the methods are. Planting a crop is not the same as dropping a bag of corn or apples. It's just not the same... Baiting does not have a bad year. Crops have bad years. Nature's rules vs. Man's convenience. There is a fundamental difference between the two methods, the end goal notwithstanding.

Anyone seen Big Lebowski? Mark it zero, Dude.

Tapping out.


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[Just Lucky]

8 minutes ago, Rebel Darling said:

I still can't get my mind around this...

Just because the end goal is the same does not mean the methods are. Planting a crop is not the same as dropping a bag of corn or apples. It's just not the same... Baiting does not have a bad year. Crops have bad years. Nature's rules vs. Man's convenience. There is a fundamental difference between the two methods, the end goal notwithstanding.

Anyone seen Big Lebowski? Mark it zero, Dude.

Tapping out.


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The method is the same. Putting food down for convenience to harvest deer. In my opinion. Really only difference is plots can only be put in on private land. However some states plant and leave plots on state land for deer along with "baiting" being legal for financial gain of the state. I would think that is more of an even playing field for all hunters. And being realistic we do not hunt for the betterment of deer but rather for our own personal reasons. We are all sportsman and sometimes others ways even when we dont agree does not make them wrong.

[Death From Above]

2 hours ago, Just Lucky said:

How many times does a guy go into the woods to fill his feeder? The deer wont pattern him? How much time does a guy spend finding a location deer travel to dump a pile of corn. If the guy feeds bags of corn to  all year long to the deer is he also helping the deer herd? And as i said food plots are different than "baiting" cause those who have them call it something different. I have been to western states such as ohio that allow it and i can tell you it works the same. Deer still see you, smell you and hear you. They still pattern you and look at you as a predator.  And will also take as much time and money to make it successful. 

Putting out a feeder is bringing the deer to a small particular spot to feed, which has a very small focus point.  If a food plot was made that small, and had the ability to bring in deer to a similar very precise area, anything that grew in it would be gone within a day or two.  They are not the same thing. 

Do you really need to spend tons of time to locate a spot to put down a bag of highly aromatic bait?  Isn’t the bait you would buy valued at its ability to do that for you?  I have a tough time believing that you can compare the two and not see the advantage of surprise that baiting CAN provide, along with the short cut many would take.  Sure, I know that when you read the bag of “Throw and Grow” it tells you that you just need to throw it down and walk away, so there are varied levels of effort to each side of this debate. 

Most guys I see in Kansas and Ohio weren’t buying bulk bags of corn for long term baiting (which I realize some do), they were using small bags of stuff to put in front of their stands that didn’t have a mechanical feeder.  Baiting provides much more opportunity for both surprise and guarantee of a working attractant when compared to plots.   It is much simpler to utilize bait as a means to draw deer in front of you at a convenient time.  I doubt people choose bait instead of plots because of the fact they are "just as good".  They likely use it because it is easier, doesn’t require near the effort, they can do it land they do not own, and hopefully legal where they hunt.  I will say once again that anyone who says “baiting and food plots work the same” likely does not have a lot of experience with food plots.  Effort, time, expense, necessary equipment, time to yield a return are all drastically different.  Buying a feeder and a pallet of corn is still much different than putting in food plots. 

Our clover plots feed deer all summer, and the brassicas provide lots of food they dig up in the winter long after deer season.  So yes, I do believe it is different than someone who dumps corn out in a pile prior to and during the hunting season to put deer in front of them.  I love the fact that my food plots are helping those deer make it through the winter with some extra food.  If it gives the bucks a better chance to recoup after the rut then that is great too.   If you prefer to do it with a feeder fine, except you’d be breaking the law in NY.  I like the fact that I am using legal means to help the deer a bit if I can.  Just because I love to hunt them doesn’t mean I can’t have intentions with my actions other than just improving my harvest potential.

If both were legal in NY, we could choose which we'd like if we wanted to do one of them or both, but that is not the case.  Many simply do not have the desire, the time, the equipment, the cash, or the land to put in their own plots.  I know that was in fact my case for most of my hunting career.  I wonder how much those factors play into many of the opinions that have been written on this thread when comparing two things that are not the same thing.  Of course that is just MO.  

 

[wildcat junkie]

On 12/13/2017 at 7:02 PM, Just Lucky said:

How many times does a guy go into the woods to fill his feeder? The deer wont pattern him? How much time does a guy spend finding a location deer travel to dump a pile of corn. If the guy feeds bags of corn to  all year long to the deer is he also helping the deer herd? And as i said food plots are different than "baiting" cause those who have them call it something different. I have been to western states such as ohio that allow it and i can tell you it works the same. Deer still see you, smell you and hear you. They still pattern you and look at you as a predator.  And will also take as much time and money to make it successful. 

 

On 12/13/2017 at 9:22 PM, Death From Above said:

Putting out a feeder is bringing the deer to a small particular spot to feed, which has a very small focus point.  If a food plot was made that small, and had the ability to bring in deer to a similar very precise area, anything that grew in it would be gone within a day or two.  They are not the same thing. 

 

 

 

How many acres can you "cover" with a scope sighted 270 or the like? I could probably cover a food plot that was say 600' by 1000' if my stand was located midway in the long distance and 100 yds away from the plot. That means I could easily cover a 14 acre plot. 

[gjs4]

Direct food use from dispense- bait.


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