Canned Hunts

[erussell]

Your going to pay about as much for one of them canadian deer as you would for a tied  up canned deer to.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

No, fair chase. As in fair chase.

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That's the point. Pretty open ended subject when one talks fair chase.


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[erussell]

Only real fair chase is stalking with a recurve. Everything else the hunter really has the advantage. 

[JRod 8G8H]

This is not the reason I hunt deer. I don't think there would be any satisfaction in this. I have been hunting 10 years and have 141" and 137" bucks down and don't own my own property. Harvesting multiple deer per year, feeling my heartbeat in my throat, while battling the elements and getting a couple wall hangers here and there, now that's why I hunt. If you have money to blow then have at it. IMO

[Uncle Nicky]

I have never been to Africa, but my understanding is that a good percentage of the land is under high fence. We are not talking about a breeding pen that is 50 acres like we see commonly here on the East Coast, but thousands of acres. And animals do come and go pretty regularly, regardless of if there is a fence or not.

I've hunted numerous times in Texas. Last trip I had shot my buck (low fence/free range), and the rancher asked if I would mind shooting a doe in the high fence area (4,500 acres-bigger than a lot of state forests). I had previously looked down my nose at high fence in the past, but this trip made me open my eyes some. The does and bucks I saw were every bit as spooky and wild as the deer in the low fence area. While I still don't ever plan on going on a "canned" hunt, I will say that high fence, if done correctly, is every bit as fair chase & challenging as low fence.

[Dinsdale]

10 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

I have never been to Africa, but my understanding is that a good percentage of the land is under high fence. We are not talking about a breeding pen that is 50 acres like we see commonly here on the East Coast, but thousands of acres. And animals do come and go pretty regularly, regardless of if there is a fence or not.

 

Africa is a big place.....But high fence is very common in South Africa, somewhat common in Namibia (the 2 countries that do many plains game hunts) and there are a few places in Zimbabwe, Botswana, and now Zambia.

You are correct in most are 3-8000 acres for a smaller size ranch; I'd guess the bulk are in the 8-20,000 range and a few go upwards of 100,000 acres plus. Most plains game operations have natural occurring breeding and life cycles where animals can evade and escape. 3 miles by 8 miles is roughly 15,000 acres for example.

Species type and management practice has most of the smaller ones doing at least some put and take hunting; where animals are often removed from over populated areas and relocated for either breeding or trophy use. 

Have to shop careful depending on what you want to hunt and how; fenced, low fence(like operating cattle ranch), or free range.

Lion hunting especially in South Africa is often canned. Cats are raised in chain link pens and often are released drugged in a larger property around a few thousand acres. Most hunters are sold a story about animals escaping national parks or crossing the border or killing cattle.

Thats the part that bugs me; sold some BS line because the property is near Kruger or up on Botswana border and some hunter thinks he's shooting a cattle killer marauder. 

 

On the opposite end are places like Save conservancy in Zimbabwe. That is technically high fence at 1 Million acres, roughly 1600 square miles; is that fair chase enough? Seems so to me and many places the fence is down for years at a time.

My last hunt,  covered just under 1/2 million acres for the 2 hunter in camp with no fences, but a sprinkling of villages scattered about. Left camp one day at 4am and arrived at northern boundary at 7am. 

On another trip stayed at a lodge on a high fence place of 20,000 acres and had a management hunt to have some fun for 10 animals when we weren't off on free ranging places to hunt some trophies I was after. In roughly 5 days of hunting I didn't kill the 10, took 7 of what could be the dumbest game species on the continent and generally speaking I'm more aggressive for shot selection than many who post on here.

 

I don't care what anyone does with their money, and frankly I don't care if its chained to a tree; just be honest about it if you are going to tell the story.

 

[Uncle Nicky]

Thank you for the clarification Dinsdale. Africa IS a big place, and obviously the whole continent is not fenced in. What I meant to say was, "a good percentage of land open to hunting is under high fence".

[Dinsdale]

19 minutes ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Thank you for the clarification Dinsdale. Africa IS a big place, and obviously the whole continent is not fenced in. What I meant to say was, "a good percentage of land open to hunting is under high fence".

That would actually be a very interesting number and one I have never seen, under fence vs open in total, for South Africa and Namibia I would think it wouldn't be insignificant. Tanzania,Mozambique,CAR ,Cameroon,Ethiopia,Uganda,Benin,Guinea,Mauritius, some areas in Morocco and Senegal....and add in all the aforementioned countries in my prior post significant open area in Zimbabwe, Zambia,Namibia......there is a BUNCH of unfenced hunting around.

Interesting enough it costs roughly 2X in day rate to hunt a free ranging wild area that has some of the big 5 roaming for plains game vs. the smaller fenced areas and 3x to hunt DG in "wild" places. No doubt the with ability to hunt free range there is a economic model of supply and demand, add in the quota limitations, and operating costs are significantly higher for just basic supplies.

So with day rates in Tanzania closing in on $2k a day; I'd say a good portion of "affordable" hunting could be under fence.

[Curmudgeon]

11 hours ago, YFKI1983 said:

People really shoot farmers horses and cows?

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My neighbors had a Hereford brood cow shot 2 years ago. Now, that is another 300 acres where no hunting is allowed. 

[Hunter007]

On 12/17/2017 at 5:04 AM, Doc said:

I remember years ago, one of the major networks did a hatchet job on hunting that they called "The Guns of Autumn" or something like that. The impression left was that all hunting consisted of canned hunts. I'm expecting another one of these assaults on hunting to be aired anytime. I really hate to be associated in any way with these kinds of representations in the name of hunting. I would have no problem with it as long as they didn't call it hunting.

What could possibly be the big thrill of resting your gun through the fence and drawing down on some deer laying there chewing its cud next to the feeding trough. I suppose it is the same mentality as those scum-bags that shoot farmer's horses and cows every year.

Let me play devil' advocate here . But a lot of hunters  and 

Most non hunters see 

actual hunting as being    done on public land ( big woods hunting )

and with know stand or blind .

the natural way as other predators  hunt .

Some would say, land that has limited access is not much different then land that is fenced . 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Storm914

[WNYBuckHunter]

25 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

Let me play devil' advocate here . But a lot of hunters  and 

Most non hunters see 

actual hunting as being    done on public land ( big woods hunting )

and with know stand or blind .

the natural way as other predators  hunt .

Some would say, land that has limited access is not much different then land that is fenced . 

 

 

I guess that statement would depend on where you are from. In this area, most non hunters see hunting as being done on private and public land, with stands, blinds, drives, etc because that is the norm here.

 

[Hunter007]

7 minutes ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

I guess that statement would depend on where you are from. In this area, most non hunters see hunting as being done on private and public land, with stands, blinds, drives, etc because that is the norm here.

 

That is  not my opinion by the way that is just what i noticed a lot of the times when you see a anti hunting comments on for example YouTube a lot of times I noticed .

Hunting for me is about food and having  good time . 

I don't see it as a competition.

 

Edited December 18, 2017 by Storm914

[WNYBuckHunter]

11 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

That is  not my opinion by the way that is just what i noticed a lot of the times when you see a anti hunting comments on for example YouTube a lot of times I noticed .

Hunting for me is about food and having  good time . 

I don't see it as a competition.

 

I couldnt agree more

[The_Field_Ager]

2 bottles of doe pee and one set of Broad-heads was my entire annual hunting cash-outlay this year. The result:

 

 

 

[erussell]

21 minutes ago, Papist said:

2 bottles of doe pee and one set of Broad-heads was my entire annual hunting cash-outlay this year. The result:

 

 

 

 as it should  be. A spike arrowed on high pressure state land is more of a trophy than a 180 in high fence ,hand feed,  unpressured, pet deer. Do what you want its your money but dont go braggin about it like you accomplished something amazing. Because its not. Not talking about your deer papist that awesome! Talkin high fence.

Edited December 18, 2017 by erussell

[mlammerhirt]

2 bottles of doe pee and one set of Broad-heads was my entire annual hunting cash-outlay this year. The result:
 
 
 

Don't you own the land you hunt? How about taxes??

Congrats if thats all you spent!

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[The_Field_Ager]

3 minutes ago, mlammerhirt said:

Don't you own the land you hunt? How about taxes??

Congrats if thats all you spent!

 

I don't own the property. It belongs to my wife's family. She has a quarter stake in it, but someone else covers the taxes for now while we take care of the maintenance of Grandmas house.

One day we will likely take over the whole place, and then yes taxes will be an issue, but then taxes get spent whether one hunts the property or not so...

Edited December 18, 2017 by Papist

[Hunter007]

14 minutes ago, erussell said:

 as it should  be. A spike arrowed on high pressure state land is more of a trophy than a 180 in high fence ,hand feed,  unpressured, pet deer. Do what you want its your money but dont go braggin about it like you accomplished something amazing. Because its not. Not talking about your deer papist that awesome! Talkin high fence.

Yea I have no problem with any type of "hunting "

But I  just think it' is in bad form when someone brags about there paid hunt especially when there hunting in a,place that  is big money that is giving you a advantage over everyone else . Because they can't afford to pay for access  in certain places.

But besides that if you  think it is fun hunting in a certain way and it is legal why not if you got the cash .

 

 

[TreeGuy]

I agree. You Def lose bragging rights when your inside the fence. A 200" is a trophy no matter how, but sure doesn't make a good campfire story when u explain how the hunt was inside a fence. Nice to look at, but I'm a fan of a good story. 3 years of hunting him or shot on gramps farm with his old gun, state land harvest, longbow etc. It's not about the investment either way, yes you pay taxes, liscense, camo etc. I'd still say you have a better story or more of a "trophy" if you spend 50k on land and 2k in gear and kill a 120 on your place Vs spending 3k on a fence hunt.

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[Four Season Whitetail's]

I agree. You Def lose bragging rights when your inside the fence. A 200" is a trophy no matter how, but sure doesn't make a good campfire story when u explain how the hunt was inside a fence. Nice to look at, but I'm a fan of a good story. 3 years of hunting him or shot on gramps farm with his old gun, state land harvest, longbow etc. It's not about the investment either way, yes you pay taxes, liscense, camo etc. I'd still say you have a better story or more of a "trophy" if you spend 50k on land and 2k in gear and kill a 120 on your place Vs spending 3k on a fence hunt.

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Most hunters that hunt high fence are very busy people that have very busy lives and make more money than most Nyer's ever will. I have seen company's send their best employees out on hunts. Company cuts the 100 grand check and 5 guys go have the best 5 days of their lives. Then on the other spectrum you have a pile of Ny hunters that have no problem dropping 2-3 grand on a hunt because they first have no place to hunt and second where they hunt they have no deer. The 130-150 inch buck they get plus the 3-5 days of steaks, lobster and hot tubs are just the perks. Many don't want the headache of owning land and dealing with it and many are 50 plus year old hunters. You young guys are going to be getting the shock in 20 years from now when most all hunting will be done behind fence. Ny screws up so many things when it comes to hunting. Prime example is right here at Letchworth park. They now took away the antler restricts. They opened up the park to as many hunters that want to come and they hand out damage tags to farmers to shoot all night and on top of that kill with sharp shooters. This park will be the next..... Used to be a great place to hunt. Ny DEC has no clue how to manage our herd or make our seasons to be better for both man and animal.


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[Curmudgeon]

Anyone want to buy a lamb next fall? I'll let you shoot it inside a low fence. I'll charge the same for you to shoot it as I would for any grass fed lamb delivered to the slaughter house.

[Hunter007]

9 minutes ago, Curmudgeon said:

Anyone want to buy a lamb next fall? I'll let you shoot it inside a low fence. I'll charge the same for you to shoot it as I would for any grass fed lamb delivered to the slaughter house.

I love lamb chops  can you  drag it out and butcher it for me too ? For that price ?:)

Edited December 18, 2017 by Storm914

[Iluvracks1359]

Thanks for all the input guys! From the sounds of it, most everyone has negative input on this.

[Paula]

9 minutes ago, Iluvracks1359 said:

Thanks for all the input guys! From the sounds of it, most everyone has negative input on this.

Without thinking about others opinions, is a preserve hunt something you would want to do?

[Buckstopshere]

There are fences...and there are fences...I hunted South Africa too. The Concessions have different fencing models...some are high fence...and some are low...hunting a 100,000 acre Concession with a strand of barb wire between it and the next is hardly "high fence." I killed a big (300#) hog with my bamboo long bow on a fenced operation in Tennessee...but I still hunted him. They said I couldn't do it at the lodge. Not bragging...but it was a lot of fun. Certainly Not hunting wild whitetails...but a lot of fun.