Bird dog gun shy

[chas0218]

I have a german short haired pointer, she is a good dog and a hunter the only problem I have is she is gun shy is there a way to break it? She is a really good hunter at our house we have about an acre and half fenced in out of our 40 acres without a lot woods access inside the fence but she has still managed to killed a grouse, rabbit, and a squirrel in what little bit she has access to. I'm not to happy with her killing them but she is just doing what she was bred to do. I have a few grouse around the house but I didn't think she was capable of actually catching one. She loves to point just about anything that moves, and I would love to hunt over her but she is very gun shy. I have never disciplined her for killing the animals actually just the opposite. Any advice is greatly appreciated. 

[ATbuckhunter]

I have zero experience with gun dogs, but I remember people saying they'd start shooting cap guns around them and progressively get closer after a little while. Then they step it up to a 22 and start the process again. This goes on until they can shoot a shotgun next to the dog with out it caring. 

[chas0218]

36 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

I have zero experience with gun dogs, but I remember people saying they'd start shooting cap guns around them and progressively get closer after a little while. Then they step it up to a 22 and start the process again. This goes on until they can shoot a shotgun next to the dog with out it caring. 

Yeah I heard that too, the only problem is I tried banging a couple pans together in the other room and she was not having any of that, this was about 4 years ago when I wanted to start training her. It wasn't even a gun and she wouldn't come near me. I have to say the pellet gun doesn't seem to bother her. The .22 is getting to her upper limit. I might just take her out with the .22 and start shooting tree stumps just to get her used to it. I'll keep her on a leash otherwise she is back at the house. I'll try taking the grouse and pheasant wings to keep her distracted.

[Al Bundy]

I heard this long ago from someone.  Might work. He said to tie the dog up to like a tree. Then stand near and start shooting.  I suspect the dog will go bonkers at first but eventually the theory is the dog settles down and gets used to the shots.  It cant go anywhere as its tied up. 

[Pygmy]

Good luck....I have heard  that it is sometimes possible to break a dog from gunshyness, but I have never  known anyone who had any luck doing it...  Knowledgable dog trainers  probably have some methods .... 

 

[Salmon_Run]

I have several hunting labs, and started puppies for others and have AKC master hunt titles for my dogs. It is easier to train loud noise tolerance for puppies than train away gun-shyness in adult dogs. I start training at 7 weeks old and subject them to CD recordings of gun fire and thunderstorms. The tapes play at low volume and increasingly over time display louder noise levels and are done in progression of how the dog tolerates the noise. If they react go back a level and if they show no response move ahead a level.

Never subject a gun shy dog to loud noise or tie them up and shoot near them. Just like never throw them into the water to swim. They require socialization and slow introductions into theses training aspects. The adult dog should be subjected to gun fire at great distances and SLOWLY move to the dog when he shows no sign of intimidation. Start small and shoot a pellet or pop gun, then a 22 with blanks and when he shows no response then and only then larger calibers. 

This will be a process of length, never skip ahead and always make training fun for your dog. Always end any training session on a positive note even if that means a short sit and stay drill for the day.

If you allow the training at your dog's pace he should be able to be conditioned from this.

Any question feel free to PM me.... 

 

[ATbuckhunter]

1 minute ago, chas0218 said:

Yeah I heard that too, the only problem is I tried banging a couple pans together in the other room and she was not having any of that, this was about 4 years ago when I wanted to start training her. It wasn't even a gun and she wouldn't come near me. I have to say the pellet gun doesn't seem to bother her. The .22 is getting to her upper limit. I might just take her out with the .22 and start shooting tree stumps just to get her used to it. I'll keep her on a leash otherwise she is back at the house. I'll try taking the grouse and pheasant wings to keep her distracted.

How close to your dog are you shooting the .22?  Maybe try to  reward her when she doesn't freak out when you shoot? Not sure if that would be a good idea. Looks like salmon run has a ton of experience in this area, so id listen to him.

[chas0218]

12 minutes ago, Salmon_Run said:

I have several hunting labs, and started puppies for others and have AKC master hunt titles for my dogs. It is easier to train loud noise tolerance for puppies than train away gun-shyness in adult dogs. I start training at 7 weeks old and subject them to CD recordings of gun fire and thunderstorms. The tapes play at low volume and increasingly over time display louder noise levels and are done in progression of how the dog tolerates the noise. If they react go back a level and if they show no response move ahead a level.

Never subject a gun shy dog to loud noise or tie them up and shoot near them. Just like never throw them into the water to swim. They require socialization and slow introductions into theses training aspects. The adult dog should be subjected to gun fire at great distances and SLOWLY move to the dog when he shows no sign of intimidation. Start small and shoot a pellet or pop gun, then a 22 with blanks and when he shows no response then and only then larger calibers. 

This will be a process of length, never skip ahead and always make training fun for your dog. Always end any training session on a positive note even if that means a short sit and stay drill for the day.

If you allow the training at your dog's pace he should be able to be conditioned from this.

Any question feel free to PM me.... 

 

She isn't horrible when I shoot the .22 near her she just doesn't like it T-storms aren't an issue. Pop gun noise don't really bother her. She doesn't run so much as wants you to pick her up. We went to the outdoor show a few years ago where they were doing the retriever training and all she wanted to do is sit in our laps.

10 minutes ago, ATbuckhunter said:

How close to your dog are you shooting the .22?  Maybe try to  reward her when she doesn't freak out when you shoot? Not sure if that would be a good idea. Looks like salmon run has a ton of experience in this area, so id listen to him.

.22 is with her in the room and me outside the door.

[Salmon_Run]

It all takes time, more so to "fix" an issue with a dog than train from the beginning to not have an issues.

I take great time with puppies and I socialize them to everything from gun shots, boats, vehicles, vet visits and anything I do or they may be a part of they participate as puppies. My vets office know I show up there with my puppies and we just sit for an hour or better at peek time watching all the other cats and dogs come and go and it becomes fun for my dogs and they have no stress when they have a visit there.

Same principal with gun noise, start small and at low levels while they play and soon enough they ignore the noise or like my master dog they actually get hyped when I raise a gun and shoot. They cue off the direction I aim and the noise alerts them to "mark" a waterfowl or retrieving decoy by the splash down.

Always go slow and end on a positive note. I've had days where a dog will have a really bad training session and do some small task they get rewarded for (sit & stay) and that continues there bond with you as a trainer and don't show frustration as most dogs read us very well...

[Salmon_Run]

4 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

She isn't horrible when I shoot the .22 near her she just doesn't like it T-storms aren't an issue. Pop gun noise don't really bother her. She doesn't run so much as wants you to pick her up. We went to the outdoor show a few years ago where they were doing the retriever training and all she wanted to do is sit in our laps.

.

That's good she ignores storms, start small be playing and distracting her while shooting a good distance from her by another, When she continues playing without being distracted by the shooting then they can move closer. This will take days, never pick her up or reward any negative behaviors. Always praise her in a high pitched voice and be excited about your praise. She will respond and concentrate her behavior (unknowingly) of playing to being rewarded and ignoring the shots.

I can't stress enough to go slow and only at her pace, watch her body language, she should be easy to read. Like I said it far easier to socialize a younger dog than condition an older dog. I've seen pro trainers at hunt tests and there dogs are not condition well and they don't succeed well in testing.

My older dogs are pretty immune to their surroundings and only concentrate on me and as their pack leader want to please me..They are basic pack animals in nature and always want to please their leader...They know I give them their commands even before I open their trailer gate and allow then to exit.  

Best of luck with her and I am sure going back to the basics will help her... 

[Salmon_Run]

https://www.mastersvoice-dog.com/

Theses really work and are well worth the money to have a well socialized gun dog. I have heard them myself so many times it gets obnoxious but dogs respond well and it simply works great.

For storms I have a cheap thunderstorm CD from the local Walmart...

 

[Doewhacker]

She’s most likely not going to get better unless you know what you are doing. Never shoot near a bird dog unless it’s on a bird starting out. If you have access to training birds start there in a controlled environment and see how it goes. Plant a bird bring the dog up on a lead, if she points great if not flush the bird and have someone pop a cap at a distance. 

You can gradually get closer if it’s going well and then restart with a 20 gage. It could take hundreds of birds. 

Not dissing you, but improper exposer to guns ruins a dog and it can be a one way street unless you have experience, patience and time. 

[Doewhacker]

2 hours ago, ATbuckhunter said:

How close to your dog are you shooting the .22?  Maybe try to  reward her when she doesn't freak out when you shoot? Not sure if that would be a good idea. Looks like salmon run has a ton of experience in this area, so id listen to him.

That would teach the dog to come to you at every noise it hears. That’s a no. 

[Doewhacker]

2 hours ago, Al Bundy said:

I heard this long ago from someone.  Might work. He said to tie the dog up to like a tree. Then stand near and start shooting.  I suspect the dog will go bonkers at first but eventually the theory is the dog settles down and gets used to the shots.  It cant go anywhere as its tied up. 

Worst idea ever. That would ruin a dog. 

[ATbuckhunter]

2 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

That would teach the dog to come to you at every noise it hears. That’s a no. 

I had a feeling it wouldn't be good. Thanks for letting me know

[chas0218]

Ok thanks guys a lot to think about and try. I'll take her out in the back yard with my wife and I'll go up on the hill (70 yards away) with the .22 and fire a shot to see if it bothers her while she is outside. If so then I know where I'll need to start. A lot of times after I shot over her she would just come and walk glued to my side. Only once did she go back to the truck and that was because we were only about 30 yards away.

[bkln]

How old is she? I would suggest find a dog school near by and schedule a visit (evaluation is most likely free) they will tell you what you can do. If she is fit sign her up for classes, worth every penny, after few months she will be OK. But the bottom line is training, training, training... just my 2 cents

[airedale]

The trick is associating gunfire with something fun and positive, my dogs just seeing me with a gun get hyper and excited because they know most of the time something is going to get shot and "that" something be it a squirrel, bird, coon, or what have you gets them pumped because they are usually involved and enjoy being involved. 

I am no bird dog training expert but this is what I would try. Get some barn pigeons and take your dog and the birds some place where you can do some shooting. Start off with some clipped wing pigeons and tossing them and firing up your dog.

Have a friend along to do the shooting with something that has a mild report like a 22 or even a blank pistol, take a bird out, and hold your dog by her collar and tease her a little with the live bird. Let it go in good plain sight and have the shooter pop off a round and you encourage her to retrieve, pet her up and give her praise and instill confidence and keep repeating. 

This is all about getting used to gunfire while having fun and associating that fun with the gunfire.

Once you get that in her head you can let the good times roll!

Al

Edited December 18, 2017 by airedale

[Culvercreek hunt club]

2 hours ago, Salmon_Run said:

I have several hunting labs, and started puppies for others and have AKC master hunt titles for my dogs. It is easier to train loud noise tolerance for puppies than train away gun-shyness in adult dogs. I start training at 7 weeks old and subject them to CD recordings of gun fire and thunderstorms. The tapes play at low volume and increasingly over time display louder noise levels and are done in progression of how the dog tolerates the noise. If they react go back a level and if they show no response move ahead a level.

Never subject a gun shy dog to loud noise or tie them up and shoot near them. Just like never throw them into the water to swim. They require socialization and slow introductions into theses training aspects. The adult dog should be subjected to gun fire at great distances and SLOWLY move to the dog when he shows no sign of intimidation. Start small and shoot a pellet or pop gun, then a 22 with blanks and when he shows no response then and only then larger calibers. 

This will be a process of length, never skip ahead and always make training fun for your dog. Always end any training session on a positive note even if that means a short sit and stay drill for the day.

If you allow the training at your dog's pace he should be able to be conditioned from this.

Any question feel free to PM me.... 

 

It also pays to introduce the noises as you mentioned when they are very preoccupied with other things, like eating. 

[Culvercreek hunt club]

11 minutes ago, chas0218 said:

Ok thanks guys a lot to think about and try. I'll take her out in the back yard with my wife and I'll go up on the hill (70 yards away) with the .22 and fire a shot to see if it bothers her while she is outside. If so then I know where I'll need to start. A lot of times after I shot over her she would just come and walk glued to my side. Only once did she go back to the truck and that was because we were only about 30 yards away.

honestly I wouldn't spend the time on socializing her on the gun unless you can train out the killing and work on the pointing. You might find that is harder to do than the gun fire. 

[Salmon_Run]

Doewacker,

I'm glad you jumped in here. He also has lots of experience with dogs also and has seen my  dogs work in the field and trained with me.

It's all about consistent reputation and exposure positively for the dog. They are pack animals and always want to make the pack leader happy. My dogs are so well socialized they have been at public firework displays and fallen asleep with all that noise. They sleep in my dog trailer at hunt tests and make no noise or fuss. It starts at a very young age and is kept up until they retire.

I'm not sure where you live but a professional trainer may solve a lot of your issues. Training dogs is the easy part it the other end of the leash that makes the difficult times. I had a year old chocolate lab that people though was vicious and were going to have her put down as she kept biting people in her house. I took her for three weeks and learned they allowed her as a puppy to play and bite them as she played. Well she took that into adult hood and knew no better. She was easily trained that biting was not in her best interest and I introduced different methods to play and entertain her that were not injurious to her owners. She actually was a very soft temperament and simply was allowed the negative behavior.

Slow and steady trains the dog......

[Salmon_Run]

45 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

She’s most likely not going to get better unless you know what you are doing. Never shoot near a bird dog unless it’s on a bird starting out. If you have access to training birds start there in a controlled environment and see how it goes. Plant a bird bring the dog up on a lead, if she points great if not flush the bird and have someone pop a cap at a distance. 

You can gradually get closer if it’s going well and then restart with a 20 gage. It could take hundreds of birds. 

Not dissing you, but improper exposer to guns ruins a dog and it can be a one way street unless you have experience, patience and time. 

Doewacker has more experience with pointers.....

[chas0218]

So a little update for you guys. I have been working on a house re-model for a while since March of this year. I didn't pay much attention to the dogs while I was doing it but Sunday as I was installing my LVL's to open up our wall I had to use my framing nailer to attach the LVL's to one another and the dog just laid their next to me sleeping. Granted my framing nailer is pneumatic but still loud and has that similar snap to it when it goes off as the .22 and she had no issues with it. I'm thinking this might be a little easier than I thought it would be, she is a good dog and trusts me so I'm thinking this will be on the easier side for both of us. 

[Chef]

So I have a Gsp as well. He loves being around me so it was easy for me. I have a sliding glass door that leads to a deck. I just went out side and started shooting off the deck... small calibers getting larger and larger. He just stands at the door and watches. Try doing something like that


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