Ideas on how new York can increase land access for hunting .

[Hunter007]

I always here a lot of new and even old hunters saying they don't have time to hunt as much as they would like because they  only good  places open to hunting are far away from where they live .

My idea is why not  give big  land owners and farmers  the option to open up parts of there land to public hunting for a tax break or even the state could  lease from them the  land to be used for the hunting season . Also new York State could have  a extra permit for a fee for hunters  that wanted to hunt that  leased land .this way it would cost them nothing and maybe would even generate more revenue for them.

 

Ok now tell me why my idea is crazy let's here it

 

[Curmudgeon]

Anything that would open more private land to hunting would be good overall. I don't know if a tax break is feasible because other local taxpayers end up picking up the difference, in effect subsidizing land for hunting.

Any attempt to change things needs to consider why private land is off limits.

In my experience, 2 things cause landowners to prohibit hunting:  they oppose hunting - in which case it's a moot point; or, they have experienced bad behavior by hunters. In my neighborhood it's about 50 - 50.  

As a hunter, I've witnessed more bad behavior than I care to recall. There are a lot of hunters I wouldn't want near me, my house or my livestock. 

[moog5050]

Any landowner that would be so inclined to voluntarily participate in such a program for a tax break could also lease their land now and still maintain control over who is hunting there.   Not relying on the state to vet those hunting on your land and lease covers taxes or part of them.   I know I would not be interested in letting just anyone on my land for reasons mentioned by curmudgeon.   

[Robhuntandfish]

The land I lease the owner leases to me cause he knows me and trusts me.  He has had offers for double the money but won't do it.  He doesn't want just anyone out there, but does like having some help paying the taxes.  Peoplle that buy land usually plan ahead on having to pay the taxes for whatever they want the land for and the reason they want their own land is not to share with people they don't know. 

[Hunter007]

My idea would be totally voluntary. 

So if someone  does it one year and don't like how it works out they don't have  obligations to keep doing it. You be surprised how many land owners who got lots of land and don't live on it .  would say yea especially if the  state pays them or they don't pay nothing on property tax for that year .  Some obviously won't want to do it so fine ,you don't have to would be nothing forced on anyone .

And a extra fee for hunting that land could be charged to hunters  who participate in that program so nobody else's  tax would go up .

 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Storm914

[nyantler]

45 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Any landowner that would be so inclined to voluntarily participate in such a program for a tax break could also lease their land now and still maintain control over who is hunting there.   Not relying on the state to vet those hunting on your land and lease covers taxes or part of them.   I know I would not be interested in letting just anyone on my land for reasons mentioned by curmudgeon.   

My sentiments exactly... most farms already have people hunting them... whether family or hunters vetted by the farmers themselves. Letting hunters have a free for all on private properties is what prompted owners to start posting their property in the first place. I would never trust the state to do anything that actually worked in my best interest as a land owner. That's just a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

[Hunter007]

18 minutes ago, nyantler said:

My sentiments exactly... most farms already have people hunting them... whether family or hunters vetted by the farmers themselves. Letting hunters have a free for all on private properties is what prompted owners to start posting their property in the first place. I would never trust the state to do anything that actually worked in my best interest as a land owner. That's just a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

If you have 100s or thousands of unfence land chances are somebody is hunting there anyway without you knowing it .  May as well let the state pay you instead of the other way around in my opinion. Seems like every other day people talk about trespassers on here if you look .

So it's happening all the time anyway 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Storm914

[Doc]

Thank you for at least starting some thinking about one of hunting's biggest challenges. These are the kinds of discussions we should be having instead of all of the hot-button fad management issues. Probably the first effort that should occur is to try to list all the reasons that hunting access is being denied.

I know that back in my early days, posted signs were an oddity. Farmers had no time to go wandering through the woods, finding his lot line and tacking up posted signs. Most of the farmers didn't even get to see a lot of their land, or even care who the heck was hunting on it. The land provided firewood for heat, and occasionally syrup, and other than that, non-tillable land was just something that they inherited from those that came before them. Today the family farms are broken up into smaller parcels and are owned by people who jealously guard there little piece of heaven. Others have experimented with allowing hunters on their property only to have it all abused and eventually over-run and totally out of control. And then there are the litterers who treat the landowner's property like a landfill throwing used beer bottles and candy wrappers and such wherever they happen to consume the contents. Also much of these smaller parcels are already saturated with friends and family already hunting there.

Now we have the growing problem of hunting leases where a handful of people will band together and tie up large tracts of hunting land. It gets posted up and frequently goes under-hunted. But the landowner gets his taxes paid and usually a bit of cash left over.

All these things are just natural evolution of land use over time. All understandable and not likely to reverse unless some very creative and imaginative thinking is put into figuring out new and innovative ways.

But now we know how we got here and what is driving these land lock-ups. Maybe this is now the place to start brainstorming solutions. Let's have at it.

[hunter49]

  Get rid of lawyers & all their stupid law suits!

[Buckmaster7600]

I'm against having to pay more taxes on my property to let someone else hunt my neighbors property. Most landowners don't want strangers on their property. The ones that do most likely already allow hunting or are leasing. There is a ton of private property out there that the owners will let people hunt on you just have to find it and be willing to do a little work.

Frankly I'm tired of hearing the BS about no where to hunt. I bust my balls to get and keep property to hunt only to have others beg to join me because they aren't willing to get permission.


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[Hunter007]

A

29 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

I'm against having to pay more taxes on my property to let someone else hunt my neighbors property. Most landowners don't want strangers on their property. The ones that do most likely already allow hunting or are leasing. There is a ton of private property out there that the owners will let people hunt on you just have to find it and be willing to do a little work.

Frankly I'm tired of hearing the BS about no where to hunt. I bust my balls to get and keep property to hunt only to have others beg to join me because they aren't willing to get permission.


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Any  plan obviously Would have  be done   in a way that nobody's tax  would go up  . You could do that possibly by charging a fee for hunters that participate in that program 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Storm914

[Buckmaster7600]

A
Any  plan obviously Would have  be done   in a way that nobody's tax  would go up  . You could do that possibly by charging a fee for hunters that participate in that program 

What about the extra man power? All lands would have to be very clearly marked for liability reasons.

To make it worth it for a landowner your talking about at least 1000$ per 100acre's let's say they allow 5 hunters per 100acres that's 200$ a person for the permit.

Would you pay 200$ a year to hunt 100 acres with 4 other guys?


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[Will_C]

That's a good plan in theory, but as others have pointed out, nearly impossible to finance and manage. I don't have the answer, but agree that increasing land access in the number one problem in hunting's future. If people don't hunt, they don't care about hunting and that will be reflected in laws, etc.

[Hunter007]

6 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

What about the extra man power? All lands would have to be very clearly marked for liability reasons.

To make it worth it for a landowner your talking about at least 1000$ per 100acre's let's say they allow 5 hunters per 100acres that's 200$ a person for the permit.

Would you pay 200$ a year to hunt 100 acres with 4 other guys?


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Well I pay like what  50 or 60 right now for a hunting license to hunt state land that has like I   can guarantee you more than 4 people  hunting on it per 100 acres more like 100   it seems like at times lol yea I would pay   more for better access to  better hunting that is closer to home .

Just the money I would save on gas and time  would be worth it .  

[Robhuntandfish]

And when u fall out of your treestand on their property no one is gonna sue right

.......a lot of leases require hunting insurance to lease the land.  Is this also gonna be a requirement?

I know out west they do this with some success but that's also huge tracts of land.  

[Buckmaster7600]

Well I pay like what  50 or 60 right now for a hunting license to hunt state land that has like I   can guarantee you more than 4 people  hunting on it per 100 acres more like 100   it seems like at times lol yea I would pay   more for better access to  better hunting that is closer to home .
Just the money I would save on gas and time  would be worth it .  

Get a few buddies together and all pitch in a couple hundred and start knocking on doors. The same guy that says no when asking permission might say yes when there is some money involved.


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[Hunter007]

12 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

And when u fall out of your treestand on their property no one is gonna sue right

.......a lot of leases require hunting insurance to lease the land.  Is this also gonna be a requirement?

I know out west they do this with some success but that's also huge tracts of land.  

State state-sponsored program state insurance will have to be made to cover it obviously part of the fee they would charge to be part of that program. 

[Hunter007]

14 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Get a few buddies together and all pitch in a couple hundred and start knocking on doors. The same guy that says no when asking permission might say yes when there is some money involved.


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Be nice  but not everyone has close friends or family that can hunt with them or do hunt for that matter. 

[Buckmaster7600]

State state-sponsored program state insurance will have to be made to cover it obviously part of the fee they would charge to be part of that program. 

And yet more COST!


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[Buckmaster7600]

Be nice  but not everyone has close friends or family that can hunt with them or do hunt for that matter. 

Put an add in your local paper.

Where there's a will there's a way and keeping the government out of it is best for all involved.

I have talked about it on here before but I talked to a farmer about hunting and he said no and I told him I was willing to work for him for permission and he said the only help he needed was truck drivers so I payed for a Cdl school and got my license I now have sole permission on his farm "about 1500acres."


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[Hunter007]

3 hours ago, moog5050 said:

Any landowner that would be so inclined to voluntarily participate in such a program for a tax break could also lease their land now and still maintain control over who is hunting there.   Not relying on the state to vet those hunting on your land and lease covers taxes or part of them.   I know I would not be interested in letting just anyone on my land for reasons mentioned by curmudgeon.   

I understand your concerns 

You could run a extra back ground check  on people who participate in that program and maybe even have them take another mandatory course on land management and hunter safety course  to detour most goof offs from getting into said program 

[Buckmaster7600]

I understand your concerns 
You could run a extra back ground check  on people who participate in that program and maybe even have them take another mandatory course on land management and hunter safety course  to detour most goof offs from getting into said program 

And yet more COST!


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[Hunter007]

8 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

And yet more COST!


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Yea sadly no matter what , you will have to pay a little  more for better access even under this plan .

I can't see anyway around it but I think it would still provide better access to  a  lot more hunters  then there is now .

 

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Storm914

[moog5050]

37 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

I understand your concerns 

You could run a extra back ground check  on people who participate in that program and maybe even have them take another mandatory course on land management and hunter safety course  to detour most goof offs from getting into said program 

Again I want to decide who has permission to hunt my land.  Not interested in deferring that to others.   But I also bought land specifically to hunt.  Maybe other land owners have a different view.  My one neighbor seems to let anyone that asks hunt there.  

[Hunter007]

6 minutes ago, moog5050 said:

Again I want to decide who has permission to hunt my land.  Not interested in deferring that to others.   But I also bought land specifically to hunt.  Maybe other land owners have a different view.  My one neighbor seems to let anyone that asks hunt there.  

That is why anything like that would be totally voluntary .

They other thing I know some  states do is a  lottery system to hunt on better land but I don't no about that people want to hunt not Gamble