For Or Against Full Inclusion

[tughillmcd]

4 minutes ago, airedale said:

It should be very easy to implement a comprehensive poll on allowing crossbows at the time of hunting licence purchase. 

Al

Unfortunately this is not as easy to set up as it may appear. People have asked for this for may issues including crossbows, Antler Restrictions and other items, but the logistics of getting it set up with the contracted services the DEC uses for license sales is not that easy to change. We asked for a separate no charge section on the license for opt in to use a crossbow so they could get a true count of how many people actually intend on using the crossbow, and were told the system is too cumbersome to make the changes. Even though it would not require the separate piece to be printed, it would still have to be administered by the same program that issues the license. 

BTW, Michigan did this when they first allowed crossbows and they were shocked by how many bow hunters opted in to use the crossbow also. Showed that there is a much larger segment of bow hunters that want to use a crossbow than people were told. 

 

[fasteddie]

4 minutes ago, tughillmcd said:

BTW, Michigan did this when they first allowed crossbows and they were shocked by how many bow hunters opted in to use the crossbow also. Showed that there is a much larger segment of bow hunters that want to use a crossbow than people were told. 

 

The bow hunters probably figured , why use a compound when I can take the easy way and use a crossbow ! 

[tughillmcd]

9 minutes ago, Jdubs said:

Thank you.  Interesting results, only 52% of respondents were in favor of xbow use for the full archery season.  

Last I knew, 52% is a majority. You also left out the 9% of unsure votes. 

Another interesting point is 29% believe that there should be a separate season for "Traditional Archery". So is that stating that 29% believe that crossbows should share the same season as compounds, and long bow and recurves get a separate one? 

[tughillmcd]

16 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

The bow hunters probably figured , why use a compound when I can take the easy way and use a crossbow ! 

Hmmmm. A few years ago the argument was that no bow hunters want crossbows in archery season! What changed, or were people misrepresenting the desire of the majority of bow hunters and the majority does support crossbows in Archery Season?
 

Edited April 11, 2018 by tughillmcd

[Jdubs]

6 minutes ago, tughillmcd said:

Last I knew, 52% is a majority. You also left out the 9% of unsure votes. 

Another interesting point is 29% believe that there should be a separate season for "Traditional Archery". So is that stating that 29% believe that crossbows should share the same season as compounds, and long bow and recurves get a separate one? 

Last I knew standard deviations are commonly cited in survey results and you can't just scoop all of the unsures into one side of the equation.   So taken as a whole, full inclusion looks to be preferred by better than half of the respondents, but less than a 2:1 margin as our casual forum poll shows.  Either way, the Legislators in Albany move the needle when money changes hands, not from survey results.

The 29% support for a "traditional" archery season also mixes in that this would be regulated by the DEC.  I wonder what the response rate would be to having the DEC make and enforce all of the hunting regulations, leaving the Legislature out of it?  

[airedale]

29 minutes ago, tughillmcd said:

Unfortunately this is not as easy to set up as it may appear.

Sorry I do not buy into that theory for one second, sounds like pure laziness to me. With today's technology a good computer programing-software company should easily be able to come up with a way to answer an important question that concerns all 600,000 hunting licence purchasers and participants. Whatever outfit that furnishes the licence software should be told to get it done no excuses.

Edited April 11, 2018 by airedale

[tughillmcd]

2 minutes ago, airedale said:

Sorry I do not buy into that theory for one second, sounds like pure laziness to me. With today's technology a good computer programing-software company should easily be able to come up with a way to answer an important question that concerns all 600,000 hunting licence purchasers and participants. Whatever outfit that furnishes the licence software to get it done no excuses.

Believe what you want. Are you willing to add a dollar to your license to pay for the survey? nobody works for free. 

[airedale]

2 minutes ago, tughillmcd said:

Are you willing to add a dollar to your license to pay for the survey?

ABSOLUTELY!!!

[tughillmcd]

1 minute ago, airedale said:

ABSOLUTELY!!!

How many others would also be willing to pay? Not just those here, but across the board? My money is on the fact people would oppose it. 

[airedale]

For me the crossbow question is too important not to be answered and have a voice from all hunting licence purchasers in NY so there can be an accurate tally where "everybody" stands and it should  cost no dollar per hunter to get one simple question answered, for crying out loud I could probably figure out a way to get it in there! And Do It For Nothing!

Al

Edited April 11, 2018 by airedale

[tughillmcd]

27 minutes ago, Jdubs said:

Last I knew standard deviations are commonly cited in survey results and you can't just scoop all of the unsures into one side of the equation.   So taken as a whole, full inclusion looks to be preferred by better than half of the respondents, but less than a 2:1 margin as our casual forum poll shows.  Either way, the Legislators in Albany move the needle when money changes hands, not from survey results.

The 29% support for a "traditional" archery season also mixes in that this would be regulated by the DEC.  I wonder what the response rate would be to having the DEC make and enforce all of the hunting regulations, leaving the Legislature out of it?  

Totally understand you points, but also take into consideration, the poll here does not break down the detail that the Senators does. 

His original question shows 66% support expansion, and 19% oppose. Yet 52% support full inclusion and 29% support DEC regulation with separate "Traditional Archery" season which adds up to 81% support some form of "Expansion" although only 52% support full inclusion. The purpose for posting the Senators poll is because people here said this poll means nothing to legislators. I merely posted another poll from a Legislator that shows the numbers are not exact, but trend in the same direction.

If the DEC was permitted to regulate as they should, Full Inclusion would have already been here as indicated in their 5 year deer palns and also in their NYS DEC Department requested Bill S5301

Edited April 11, 2018 by tughillmcd

[tughillmcd]

10 hours ago, Storm914 said:

You no how it works In Albany

They say show me the money

Are you implying crossbow full inclusion is not happening because those opposed to it have paid to stop it?

Edited April 11, 2018 by tughillmcd

[dbHunterNY]

16 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

I've got one special stand that I can't see over 20 yards becasue it is so thick. That's the one for me and I will avoid regrets...lol 

20 yards?! dang that's far. might have to make it a recurve crossbow instead.

[dbHunterNY]

16 hours ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

We are gonna have one...come on out...lol

if i was planning on being out that way i would. i can only attend so many banquets, events, and be on so many boards before the wife starts docking deer season days or demands more vacation.

[Doewhacker]

The DEC doesn’t need anymore surveys, they have a couple and got the same results and believe it or not they can use statistics from a smaller sample size to learn what a larger survey will result in. 

They are well past the survey stage, and not all 600,000 licenses sold deer hunt, bow hunt, or give a rats ass about crossbows. Why waste time on another survey to get the same results. 

Again, it is up to legislators to get this done not the DEC. 

[Doewhacker]

https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/deerplanapc.pdf

https://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/hdrudeer10.pdf

 

Here’s a survey for you guys that love taking them. 

https://www.nysenate.gov/questionnaires/rich-funke/2017-hunters-and-sportsmen-survey

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, tughillmcd said:

Unfortunately this is not as easy to set up as it may appear. People have asked for this for may issues including crossbows, Antler Restrictions and other items, but the logistics of getting it set up with the contracted services the DEC uses for license sales is not that easy to change. We asked for a separate no charge section on the license for opt in to use a crossbow so they could get a true count of how many people actually intend on using the crossbow, and were told the system is too cumbersome to make the changes. Even though it would not require the separate piece to be printed, it would still have to be administered by the same program that issues the license. 

BTW, Michigan did this when they first allowed crossbows and they were shocked by how many bow hunters opted in to use the crossbow also. Showed that there is a much larger segment of bow hunters that want to use a crossbow than people were told. 

 

this is true. we had a meeting one summer with the entire big game unit of DEC. they bid the contract and the work is done. they'd have to wait until they overhauled the system as a whole, otherwise it'd be very costly to make changes here and there.

[airedale]

1 hour ago, Doewhacker said:

They are well past the survey stage, and not all 600,000 licenses sold deer hunt, bow hunt, or give a rats ass about crossbows. Why waste time on another survey to get the same results. 

That is exactly right except for the don't give a rat's ass comment as everyone here is conveniently forgetting the more than a few squirrel, rabbit, coon, grouse, woodcock and pheasant hunters who have been getting the short shaft for decades. Why is it do you think that the small game hunting in this state has become almost non existent from what it once was when I was a young man.Their seasons are directly affected and have virtually been destroyed especially on public lands by the greed of Deer hunters extending their seasons through virtually all of the small game seasons. On private land forget it, how many here who own private land would grant permission to a small game hunter?

The first thing out of a Deer hunters mouth when they have small game hunters using the same lands is that they are ruining their hunt. Ask a Beagler or Bird hunter or even Squirrel hunters why they are not hunting public land during deer season even though they have every right to be out there? Too bad for the poor small game hunter they can get their shot during January and February when the snow is up to their armpits.

I want to see every hunter's opinion on crossbows all 600,000 and not matter what kind of hunting they do because all are affected.

That is being Democratic and fair and all should be demanding that no hunting group be left out on the outcome, why would anyone be against every hunter having a voice unless they have something to fear.

Just a reminder it was also assumed that Hillary was going to be our next president!

Like I said let the chips fall where they may, I for one will abide by the outcome.

Al

 

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by airedale

[tughillmcd]

1 hour ago, airedale said:

That is exactly right except for the don't give a rat's ass comment as everyone here is conveniently forgetting the more than a few squirrel, rabbit, coon, grouse, woodcock and pheasant hunters who have been getting the short shaft for decades. Why is it do you think that the small game hunting in this state has become almost non existent from what it once was when I was a young man.Their seasons are directly affected and have virtually been destroyed especially on public lands by the greed of Deer hunters extending their seasons through virtually all of the small game seasons. On private land forget it, how many here who own private land would grant permission to a small game hunter?

The first thing out of a Deer hunters mouth when they have small game hunters using the same lands is that they are ruining their hunt. Ask a Beagler or Bird hunter or even Squirrel hunters why they are not hunting public land during deer season even though they have every right to be out there? Too bad for the poor small game hunter they can get their shot during January and February when the snow is up to their armpits.

I want to see every hunter's opinion on crossbows all 600,000 and not matter what kind of hunting they do because all are affected.

That is being Democratic and fair and all should be demanding that no hunting group be left out on the outcome, why would anyone be against every hunter having a voice unless they have something to fear.

Just a reminder it was also assumed that Hillary was going to be our next president!

Like I said let the chips fall where they may, I for one will abide by the outcome.

Al

 

 

How will they guarantee all lifetime license holders are heard from when their tags are mailed to them and they don't have to pick them up at a licensing agent? Why stop at hunting license purchasers? What about hikers, bird watchers, foliage viewers, dog walkers, bike riders, horse back riders and all other people this will affect across the state be included in the Democratic process you advocate for? 

Why don't you have it put on the ballot in November and allow all affected parties voice their opinion?

 

 

[airedale]

28 minutes ago, tughillmcd said:

What about hikers, bird watchers, foliage viewers, dog walkers, bike riders, horse back riders and all other people this will affect across the state

Well I really don't know how what weapon a hunter uses to hunt Deer with  has to do with riding a bike and looking at leaves but if they feel they need to have a voice in this matter let them lobby for it. 

Personally I am only interested in what the 600,000 licence buying NY hunters think. 

By the way do you not think that all NY hunters should have some say in this matter

Edited April 11, 2018 by airedale

[Five Seasons]

22 hours ago, tughillmcd said:

Interesting. People have been asking for crossbow hunting in NY since it became legal to hunt with in Ohio over 40 years ago. NYB was established in 1991, which makes it around 27 years old. So the NYB boat didn't even exist until at least 10 years after the first crossbow hunters "wanted a piece of the bow season". 

you could make the same argument against your organization. Why didn't you form 40 years ago? 

[Five Seasons]

22 hours ago, Just Lucky said:

So you haven't,  and you assume it's easier. I used a crossbow for the first time last year and for me it was not easier. 

It may become easier as seasons go but there are learning curves to the crossbow also.

so it's harder? You're hanging your hat on that? 

[tughillmcd]

9 minutes ago, Belo said:

so it's harder? You're hanging your hat on that? 

Jason Luck wrote, "I used a crossbow for the first time last year and for me it was not easier. "

The only use of the word HARDER is in your reply! 

 

[dbHunterNY]

23 minutes ago, airedale said:

Well I really don't know how what weapon a hunter uses to hunt Deer with  has to do with riding a bike and looking at leaves but if they feel they need to have a voice in this matter let them lobby for it. 

Personally I am only interested in what the 600,000 licence buying NY hunters think. 

By the way do you not think that all NY hunters should have some say in this matter

you know we live in NYS. here every individual, including recreational public land users, have a say regarding what you can legally hunt with anywhere in the state. DEC just defines what you can use to hunt any particular game and the season dates for that game, to effect what you're toting further. what you're asking for can't feasibly be done, due to those pushing against allowing a crossbow as a legal implement to hunt with under DEC regulation. if the legislation wasn't stone walled then DEC could then weigh interest of the hunting license holding population. DEC won't go against the whole group of hunters, if not for very long.  when the words full inclusion is mentioned with seasons in mind, that doesn't have anything to do with the legislative part. that's after and what DEC decides, based on the hunting public desire.

[Five Seasons]

20 hours ago, NFA-ADK said:

Dear Jeffrey,

The Assembly Majority helped pass an on-time budget that restored funding to the essential programs and services that millions of New Yorkers rely on. It did not include language to expand crossbow hunting.  


As always, public participation remains vitally important to the Assembly. Your input is a valuable resource that helps me to better serve our state. 

Sincerely,

Speaker Carl Heastie
 

I got this too. Win!