Meat or Antlers

[wolc123]

4 minutes ago, Rob... said:

Yet here you are using the WWW to promote your propaganda. 

I am just looking to get a feel for the current state of deer hunting in NY and these polls are great for that.  I can't help it if they have verified my pre-concieved notions, almost to the exact percentage.  Thanks again for your crossbow poll.  Who was the guy who said that ALL deer hunters cared more about antlers than they did about meat ?  

 

Hint: Look up one post.  

[DirtTime]

11 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I am just looking to get a feel for the current state of deer hunting in NY and these polls are great for that.  I can't help it if they have verified my pre-concieved notions, almost to the exact percentage.  Thanks again for your crossbow poll.  Who was the guy who said that ALL deer hunters cared more about antlers than they did about meat ?  

 

Hint: Look up one post.  

These polls on here and having an opinion don't do jack shit do get the DEC to lean one way or another. You are very confused and delusional on that FACT! Wolc, you have gone bat shit crazy with your agenda. I told you once, and now I will tell you again, I made that poll as a joke!

I don't give a rats ass what or how people hunt as long as it's legal and ethical. Let me fill you in on something, in most hunters opinions shooting/killing game from your bathroom window is unethical. You keep on trucking bro. Post away! 

 

[wolc123]

7 hours ago, Rob... said:

These polls on here and having an opinion don't do jack shit do get the DEC to lean one way or another. You are very confused and delusional on that FACT! Wolc, you have gone bat shit crazy with your agenda. I told you once, and now I will tell you again, I made that poll as a joke!

I don't give a rats ass what or how people hunt as long as it's legal and ethical. Let me fill you in on something, in most hunters opinions shooting/killing game from your bathroom window is unethical. You keep on trucking bro. Post away! 

 

I have never even killed a sparrow from my bathroom window, but my bedroom window is another story.  That has been mostly woodchucks & crows with the occasional coyote, fox, coon and rabbit.  As far as deer, it was just one lonely button buck that rose up out of the corn and decided to step out for a bite of brassicas 5 minutes before sunset on the last day of ML a few years back.   When Jesus Christ blesses me with a gift like that after a hard day at work, and with a little room left in the freezer, who am I to refuse it ?  Last I checked, there is nothing unethical about hunting from a heated and well-appointed ground blind, even if it is one that you sleep in.  Joke or not, your poll has been very helpful and comforting to me.  Thanks again for your "pm" guidance on poll making, where I still have much to learn. 

Edited May 5, 2018 by wolc123

[Doc]

8 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I am just looking to get a feel for the current state of deer hunting in NY and these polls are great for that.  I can't help it if they have verified my pre-concieved notions, almost to the exact percentage.  Thanks again for your crossbow poll.  Who was the guy who said that ALL deer hunters cared more about antlers than they did about meat ?  

Here is some more evidence that people desperately attach the status of credibility to statistics and polls without the slightest idea of what makes them work or turns them into a joke, or tool for misleading. Is it any wonder that so many people can be easily misled and influenced by those that know how to manipulate data. So many opinions of so many people are manipulated by adding the words "poll" or "statistics" to the argument. The polls here on huntingny.com are not worth the time it takes to construct them, and they certainly are no indication of "the current state of deer hunting in NY".

[wolc123]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

Here is some more evidence that people desperately attach the status of credibility to statistics and polls without the slightest idea of what makes them work or turns them into a joke, or tool for misleading. Is it any wonder that so many people can be easily misled and influenced by those that know how to manipulate data. So many opinions of so many people are manipulated by adding the words "poll" or "statistics" to the argument. The polls here on huntingny.com are not worth the time it takes to construct them, and they certainly are no indication of "the current state of deer hunting in NY".

At least you have the NYB website to go to for anti-crossbow sympathy.  This latest poll indicates that the antler-worshipers might be in need of someplace like that.  Do you have any idea where they might go ?   The old QDMA forum was quite friendly to the antler crowd, but folded a few years ago, just about the time that the meat-movement started taking off.   The die-hards like you and FSW do make for some fun, spirited discussion though, and I hope he hangs around here, even though we can all see now that you both are in the super-minority.  The question is, do the polls lack credibility or do you lack the ability to handle the truth ? 

While I have absolutely no other use for the selfish, elitist anti-crossbow bunch, and would prefer that they head off for Oregon, I do have a strong appreciation for the antler crowd.  I hope they stay around and I would be even happier if they increased in number.  They have directly provided food for my family on many occasions, while the anti-crossbow bunch has done nothing but made it harder for me to get.    It mostly comes down to food for me. 

I do like antlers though, because they indicate which deer will taste better without the need to trim off a lot of fat, and they also provide a quick way to get an approximate age on the hoof.  In addition, they provide attractive wall-decorations to serve as pleasant reminders of past hunts.  I also have a few "trophy" leanings.  I would prefer to have mandatory 3 point on a side AR's for deer hunters of all ages in NY.   That would have little effect on me personally, but it might slow some folks down on the trigger and make hunting safer for all of us.      

Bon-voyage

Edited May 5, 2018 by wolc123

[Nomad]

I know a guy who doesn’t take home the antlers or the meat.

The camp,rules are racks stay at the camp , and his wife is a vegetarian,so he gives away all the meat .

Guess he just likes the hunt. 

But no way my rack stays at some guys camp.

[DirtTime]

Wolc, I want you to understand something, I am not trying to be a jerk to you, or come off as being mean. I am simply trying to say that polls on web forums are about as useful as elevators in outhouses.

As for shooting from your house, I don't care what window you use, IMO it's still not acceptable in my mind. I don't care what you shoot from said window, to me it's still being lazy, and God doesn't like lazy people. There's a difference in building a heated blind and just strolling to your window. Setting up blinds takes work and dedication to the hunt. You scout, you find the best place to build your blind, and do the manual labor of building that blind. It's not even close to the same thing as putting a kitchen chair in front of a window in your home. 

There is nothing that will get through to you. Others have tried to explain about these polls and stats, you just don't seem to get it. Your are buying into hype, and trusting in bullshit. 

 

[wolc123]

4 hours ago, Rob... said:

Wolc, I want you to understand something, I am not trying to be a jerk to you, or come off as being mean. I am simply trying to say that polls on web forums are about as useful as elevators in outhouses.

As for shooting from your house, I don't care what window you use, IMO it's still not acceptable in my mind. I don't care what you shoot from said window, to me it's still being lazy, and God doesn't like lazy people. There's a difference in building a heated blind and just strolling to your window. Setting up blinds takes work and dedication to the hunt. You scout, you find the best place to build your blind, and do the manual labor of building that blind. It's not even close to the same thing as putting a kitchen chair in front of a window in your home. 

There is nothing that will get through to you. Others have tried to explain about these polls and stats, you just don't seem to get it. Your are buying into hype, and trusting in bullshit. 

 

I forgive you for this latest personal attack (calling me lazy).   You may not realize it, but such attacks strengthen me and increase my own faith in God, so thank you for this one.

How many people work and pay taxes for sufficient property, surrounding their houses, to hunt on ?  How many of those till the soil and produce crops that holds deer on that land all the way thru hunting season ?  You are missing all the work and effort that goes into that.    

As far as the polls go, this is where we are at right now:  72 % of those who made up their minds on this one, if antlers or meat was MORE important to them as deer hunters chose meat.   Similarly, in your poll on full inclusion of crossbow, 72 % were for it.  

Those numbers are significant.  Hillary Clinton never led polls by that amount in NY or California, a couple of states where Trump had enough sense not to waste money.  I am interested in the opinion of other hunters so I have no problem asking for them.    Do you get it now ?

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I forgive you for this latest personal attack (calling me lazy).   You may not realize it, but such attacks strengthen me and increase my own faith in God, so thank you for this one.
How many people work and pay taxes for sufficient property, surrounding their houses, to hunt on ?  How many of those till the soil and produce crops that holds deer on that land all the way thru hunting season ?  You are missing all the work and effort that goes into that.    
As far as the polls go, this is where we are at right now:  72 % of those who made up their minds on this one, if antlers or meat was MORE important to them as deer hunters chose meat.   Similarly, in your poll on full inclusion of crossbow, 72 % were for it.  
Those numbers are significant.  Hillary Clinton never led polls by that amount in NY or California, a couple of states where Trump had enough sense not to waste money.  I am interested in the opinion of other hunters so I have no problem asking for them.    Do you get it now ?

I Love how you Shit on this God you speak so much about. You must be one of his Fav's asking for forgiveness on a regular basis. I guess even he has to deal with dipsticks. Great Job!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wolc123]

1 hour ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

I Love how you Shit on this God you speak so much about. You must be one of his Fav's asking for forgiveness on a regular basis. I guess even he has to deal with dipsticks. Great Job!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you part of the (roughly) 72 % of Americans who identify themselves as Christian ?   This post leads me to believe that you may be an Atheist.   There IS something wrong with that.  I would prefer to see nobody forever separated from God.   It is never too late to join the super-majority and accept the free gift that He offers all of us.   The worship of antlers may see you all the way thru this life, but will not do much for you on what comes next.    

 

p.s: You were right about one thing.  I did not kill both of the bucks that were attached to the antlers in the photo that I posted on page 6.   We did get to eat them both however, and my buddy (with whom antlers are MORE important than meat) was thrilled with that euro that I made for him.   That was the first one that I did with my new power-washer.  There was still skin on it and a brain in it 1 hour before that photo was taken.  If you look closely, you can tell easily which one looks fresher.

 

Happy hunting

Edited May 6, 2018 by wolc123

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Are you part of the (roughly) 72 % of Americans who identify themselves as Christian ?   This post leads me to believe that you may be an Atheist.   There IS something wrong with that.  I would prefer to see nobody forever separated from God.   It is never too late to join the super-majority and accept the free gift that He offers all of us.   The worship of antlers may see you all the way thru this life, but will not do much for you on what comes next.    
 
p.s: You were right about one thing.  I did not kill both of the bucks that were attached to the antlers in the photo that I posted on page 6.   We did get to eat them both however, and my buddy (with whom antlers are MORE important than meat) was thrilled with that euro that I made for him.   That was the first one that I did with my new power-washer.  There was still skin on it and a brain in it 1 hour before that photo was taken.  If you look closely, you can tell easily which one looks fresher.
 
Happy hunting

This post just shows all how full of it you are. You speak God this and that and then admit sin after sin and agree with them. Anybody that did believe any of your foolishness on here and your stupid posts will no longer after this one. Good Job on showing what little credibility you might have had! Today is your day to ask for more forgiveness. Seems you must have to do a lot of that stuff. What A Joke!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lawdwaz]

Nice to see the mud flinging on a Sunday.....church must be over?

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, Lawdwaz said:

Nice to see the mud flinging on a Sunday.....church must be over?

Since his (FSW) livelihood depends in large measure on antler-worship, I fully understand his frustration with the truth that has been revealed by this thread:  More people care MORE about meat these days than they do about antlers.   He has nothing to back up his counter-claim, while all I have to do is point to this thread right here.   Some folks like beating their head against a brick wall.   I am more concerned with saving his soul than I am with ending his antler worship so it is good this is happening on a Sunday.  Anybody can "preach to the choir".   

Edited May 6, 2018 by wolc123

[Buckmaster7600]

The problem with polls are you can make then give what ever stats you want. CNN runs a pole - “do you support laws that will stop children stop being killed in schools”? No one in their right mind will say no but if you change a couple words in that question you will get a drastically different outcome - “do you support stricter gun laws that could prevent school shootings” everyone with a brain will answer no because we know laws won’t stop anything.

Meat or Antlers it’s easy for someone to say meat. However put a scenario and run a poll and I bet the difference will be drastically different

If a roughly 100lb buck “actual weight not based off pa girth chart” and a 150lb doe are in your shooting lane and the buck has a 150” rack what one do you shoot. I’m willing to bet that over 95% of your 72% answer buck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Four Season Whitetail's]

The problem with polls are you can make then give what ever stats you want. CNN runs a pole - “do you support laws that will stop children stop being killed in schools”? No one in their right mind will say no but if you change a couple words in that question you will get a drastically different outcome - “do you support stricter gun laws that could prevent school shootings” everyone with a brain will answer no because we know laws won’t stop anything.

Meat or Antlers it’s easy for someone to say meat. However put a scenario and run a poll and I bet the difference will be drastically different

If a roughly 100lb buck “actual weight not based off pa girth chart” and a 150lb doe are in your shooting lane and the buck has a 150” rack what one do you shoot. I’m willing to bet that over 95% of your 72% answer buck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Preach it to the preacher Buck. I would be willing to go 98% or better but who cares debating with someone that has to put up posts of other hunters animals and call his own? Speaks volumes!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wolc123]

25 minutes ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

The problem with polls are you can make then give what ever stats you want. CNN runs a pole - “do you support laws that will stop children stop being killed in schools”? No one in their right mind will say no but if you change a couple words in that question you will get a drastically different outcome - “do you support stricter gun laws that could prevent school shootings” everyone with a brain will answer no because we know laws won’t stop anything.

Meat or Antlers it’s easy for someone to say meat. However put a scenario and run a poll and I bet the difference will be drastically different

If a roughly 100lb buck “actual weight not based off pa girth chart” and a 150lb doe are in your shooting lane and the buck has a 150” rack what one do you shoot. I’m willing to bet that over 95% of your 72% answer buck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In that situation I am with the 98 % that shoots the buck.  The reason for that is because after all the fat is trimmed off from the doe (which is a very time-consuming operation), the meat yield will be similar.   That is part of the reason I would like to see NY provide a third buck tag for hunters who purchase gun, archery, and ML licences.   

17 minutes ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Preach it to the preacher Buck. I would be willing to go 98% or better but who cares debating with someone that has to put up posts of other hunters animals and call his own? Speaks volumes!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can you show me where I called another hunter's kill my own ?   I put up a picture of another hunter's 2-1/2 year old bucks skull to illustrate the size difference between that and a 3-1/2 (which I killed).   No problem though, and I can understand you frustration with me.   I would be pretty frustrated with you if the shoe was on the other foot and you had disproved one of my claims with some type of poll of your own.           

Edited May 6, 2018 by wolc123

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Can you show me where I called another hunter's kill my own ?   I put up a picture of another hunter's 2-1/2 year old bucks skull to illustrate the size difference between that and a 3-1/2 (which I killed).   No problem though, and I can understand you frustration with me.   I would be pretty frustrated with you if the shoe was on the other foot and you had disproved one of my claims with some type of poll of your own.           

Read the post dipstick. You talked of 31/2 yr old deer and I posted the question that they must have been does and you post a pic of two mature bucks. With making no note that they were someone else's. Good Try. Like I said! A Joke!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Buckmaster7600]

Can you show me where I called another hunter's kill my own ?   I put up a picture of another hunter's 2-1/2 year old bucks skull to illustrate the size difference between that and a 3-1/2 (which I killed).   No problem though, and I can understand you frustration with me.   I would be pretty frustrated with you if the shoe was on the other foot and you had disproved one of my claims with some type of poll of your own.           

Ok, I’ll play one more time, change the doe out for a 150lb spike horn?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NFA-ADK]

I'm more of a meat-antler kind of guy.  Lets argue about that for days, lol.  I will check back in a week or so to check on your progress on this matter, I expect at least 10 pages so get to work.  

[NFA-ADK]

On ‎4‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 8:34 PM, nyantler said:

I have always been fond of antler meat. So yeah, antler meat... final answer.

 

 

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Ok, I’ll play one more time, change the doe out for a 150lb spike horn?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That changes the situation.  If they were side by side and the spike was clearly that much bigger, then I would at least consider using my tag on him.  I might just pull the trigger, if it was near the end of the season and the extra weight would make the difference in securing our year's food supply.   A side bonus would be saving the taxidermy money, as I would feel obliged to get a shoulder mount of a 150 incher. 

It has been almost ten years since I killed an antlered buck with less than 3 points on a side.  I do get less fussy as the season progresses if our meat supply is low.  Two seasons ago I saw two bucks in exactly the same spot, a few minutes apart, with about that same difference in body weight, as in your hypothetical scenario.   The one with the smaller body showed up first, and was a 1-1/2 year old spike, which I passed.  The busted up 2-1/2 year old 5-point that I killed minutes later was originally an 8 (no where near 150").   If the bodies had been reversed on those two, there is no doubt I would have shot the spike.   It was the combination of tiny body and tiny rack (slightly more than 3") that kept me off the trigger. 

My neighbor's nephew  killed that little spike a couple weeks later and regretted having to use his buck tag on it.  He said that he did not see the rack and he assumed he was shooting at a doe.   Now maybe you can understand why I would like to see 3-points on a side minimum AR's.  If nothing else, they would slow folks down and make them make sure of their target.  An individual with a buck and a doe tag in his posession can be dangerous when "anything goes".

 The situation you describe is highly unlikely because, like in the case I just described, the larger antlers almost always mean an older deer with a larger body.  That is my favorite thing about antlers - the rough gauge they provide indicating the sex (and ease of processing), age, and body size.   If bucks did not have them, it would not make much difference in my desire to hunt.  I assume that you and FSW would never have gotten involved in the sport if that was the case.        

[Four Season Whitetail's]

That changes the situation.  If they were side by side and the spike was clearly that much bigger, then I would at least consider using my tag on him.  I might just pull the trigger, if it was near the end of the season and the extra weight would make the difference in securing our year's food supply.   A side bonus would be saving the taxidermy money, as I would feel obliged to get a shoulder mount of a 150 incher. 
It has been almost ten years since I killed an antlered buck with less than 3 points on a side.  I do get less fussy as the season progresses if our meat supply is low.  Two seasons ago I saw two bucks in exactly the same spot, a few minutes apart, with about that same difference in body weight, as in your hypothetical scenario.   The one with the smaller body showed up first, and was a 1-1/2 year old spike, which I passed.  The busted up 2-1/2 year old 5-point that I killed minutes later was originally an 8 (no where near 150").   If the bodies had been reversed on those two, there is no doubt I would have shot the spike.   It was the combination of tiny body and tiny rack (slightly more than 3") that kept me off the trigger. 
My neighbor's nephew  killed that little spike a couple weeks later and regretted having to use his buck tag on it.  He said that he did not see the rack and he assumed he was shooting at a doe.   Now maybe you can understand why I would like to see 3-points on a side minimum AR's.  If nothing else, they would slow folks down and make them make sure of their target.  An individual with a buck and a doe tag in his posession can be dangerous when "anything goes".
 The situation you describe is highly unlikely because, like in the case I just described, the larger antlers almost always mean an older deer with a larger body.  That is my favorite thing about antlers - the rough gauge they provide indicating the sex (and ease of processing), age, and body size.   If bucks did not have them, it would not make much difference in my desire to hunt.  I assume that you and FSW would never have gotten involved in the sport if that was the case.        

Sure we would. We just still would have hunted the harder more mature deer. You see all of us don't kill babies or need the state to put more seasons in place so we can kill deer. Most of us have the talent to get that done. Unlike you others


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wolc123]

2 hours ago, Four Season Whitetail's said:

Sure we would. We just still would have hunted the harder more mature deer. You see all of us don't kill babies or need the state to put more seasons in place so we can kill deer. Most of us have the talent to get that done. Unlike you others


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You and Buckmaster sound like a born fighters, who hunt primarily for the challenge.  I don't have a problem with that and I would be happier if there was more like you.  It is too bad that this poll indicates that the antler craze may be in decline.  I was born a killer, who seeks to minimize the challenge, and I kill mainly for food.  Fortunately, we live in a state where there are plenty of deer for all of us.  

By the way, last year's crossbow buck was also a 3-1/2 year old, according to the skull size (slightly larger than the one on the left on the page 6 photo).  Is that mature for you ?  I had thought it was just a stout 2-1/2 year old, until I did the euro and compared the skull size.  The PA chest-girth measurement / body weight conversion also matches up to a 3-1/2 year old, per the NY state hunting regulation book. 

 I did post a kill shot of that one with me in it, on the back of my wife's mini-van, in the crossbow section.  The busted up rack was nothing special, but that is ok.  Antlers do not mean too much to me.  Now I can find something better to do with the $500 that a shoulder mount would have cost.  That will buy a lot of fertilizer and diesel fuel.   That sucker sure did have some meat on it.  We just finished the last pack of grind from it last week and still have (5) roasts an a  couple packs of backstrap left in the freezer from it.  

Our food supply looks pretty good at this point, with that and (2) more average-sized deer remaining.  We should have plenty to last until the fall when the new ones start coming in if the Lord chooses to bless us again as He always has.   A button buck sure would be nice because I am almost forgetting how good they are.  Have you ever tried one ?

There is something to be said for milk on the lips.  That could be why they taste so good.  I know for a fact, that General Eisenhower dominated the PA beef competitions, back in the early 1960's, with his black-angus steers that were finished on Holstein milk.  Maybe Buckmaster could try that trick with his, since he don't care for venison.          

Edited May 7, 2018 by wolc123

[DirtTime]

17 hours ago, wolc123 said:

I forgive you for this latest personal attack (calling me lazy).   You may not realize it, but such attacks strengthen me and increase my own faith in God, so thank you for this one.

 

That means so much to me, thanks, jack ass!. Let me explain a little something more to you. I am disabled, I have a bad back that gets a little worse each year. I have days I can barely move. I also have days where I am mobile with no pain, and days where mobility is painful, but I can get around. I still bust my ass to get into the woods as often as my health allows. No one helps me climb the mountains I hunt, no one sets up my hunting spots, no one scouts for me, and I don't use trail cams. So think about this, you sitting in a chair in your bedroom puts a splinter under my finger nail.

Also, look at the people on this site who have gone through surgery for shoulders and put the work in to get back to shooting a vert bow. My hats goes off to each and every one of them! 

 

DO YOU GET IT NOW!

 

 

I and no one else will ever convince you these polls and stats from sites are nonsense. 

 

[DirtTime]

6 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

You and Buckmaster sound like a born fighters, who hunt primarily for the challenge.  I don't have a problem with that and I would be happier if there was more like you.  It is too bad that this poll indicates that the antler craze may be in decline.  I was born a killer, who seeks to minimize the challenge, and I kill mainly for food.  Fortunately, we live in a state where there are plenty of deer for all of us.  

By the way, last year's crossbow buck was also a 3-1/2 year old, according to the skull size (slightly larger than the one on the left on the page 6 photo).  Is that mature for you ?  I had thought it was just a stout 2-1/2 year old, until I did the euro and compared the skull size.  The PA chest-girth measurement / body weight conversion also matches up to a 3-1/2 year old, per the NY state hunting regulation book. 

 I did post a kill shot of that one with me in it, on the back of my wife's mini-van, in the crossbow section.  The busted up rack was nothing special, but that is ok.  Antlers do not mean too much to me.  Now I can find something better to do with the $500 that a shoulder mount would have cost.  That will buy a lot of fertilizer and diesel fuel.   That sucker sure did have some meat on it.  We just finished the last pack of grind from it last week and still have (5) roasts an a  couple packs of backstrap left in the freezer from it.  

Our food supply looks pretty good at this point, with that and (2) more average-sized deer remaining.  We should have plenty to last until the fall when the new ones start coming in if the Lord chooses to bless us again as He always has.   A button buck sure would be nice because I am almost forgetting how good they are.  Have you ever tried one ?

There is something to be said for milk on the lips.  That could be why they taste so good.  I know for a fact, that General Eisenhower dominated the PA beef competitions, back in the early 1960's, with his black-angus steers that were finished on Holstein milk.  Maybe Buckmaster could try that trick with his, since he don't care for venison.          

Born Killer?

Man, you just keep getting better and better.. Someone chime the theme to Full Metal Jacket.