Winter wheat

[Pygmy]

With a little co-operation from Ma Nature, I hope to get my winter wheat  plot planted this weekend..

Those who plant wheat, especially here in Litte Appallachia ( G-Man---Let Em Grow) what fertilizer do you use and how much per acre on average fertility hill country land ?

[moog5050]

I am going to take a wild guess at 100-150lbs of 15-15-15 per acre.  This is one of the many times I am offering an ill informed opinion.  More curious to see how close I come to the experts.

Edited August 30, 2018 by moog5050

[LET EM GROW]

I actually just planted some WW yesterday after work. Not realizing we had a bunch of rain on the way. I'll overseed a big perennial mix into it next week. and more WW into my beans then as well. 

Im not one to use fertilizer(b/c im cheap lol). I use previous crops to help with future plantings(crop rotations) but I would use triple 15 or triple 19 at 150#/acre. But that is just me, and  again, I rarely use fertilizer. WW loves nitrogen as well. And i believe if adding N to your WW planting, it is best done at time of seeding

Edited August 30, 2018 by LET EM GROW

[landtracdeerhunter]

For harvest grains, we put quarter ton of 10-20-20 to the acre. Spread up to 90# urea in the Spring.  Summer fallowing your soil will give far better results. Inert matter will be decomposed, and nitrogen will be available for the wheat to grow good root system.

Your only doing a simple food plot, throw on 150# and see what she does. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by landtracdeerhunter

[sailinghudson25]

This is what I do with wheat/clover mix.   This is done for a half acre.  4 or 5 bags of lime, most of a bag of 15-15-15, most of a bag of 6-24-24.   If you want to keep clover for the next year 4lbs of ladino late summer, then frost seed another 2-3lbs in feb/march.   If you're going to rotate to something else, then I use red clover instead with no winter frost seed.

The only thing I ever mono-crop is red clover in preparation for something else.  I always blend seeds.  I likse the ladino clover blends because incase you get a busy year, you got a running food plot and not a huge mess of weeds.

Out of oats, rye, and wheat; wheat is my favorite.  If you like turkey, frost seed some oats.

Austrian peas, rape, turnips, and hairy vetch has been blended in my experience.  All does pretty well.  Hairy vetch is used in poor sandy soils in the ADK's, it adds nitrogen like clover.  Very commonly used to erosion control in a long term situation, like mining, or major excavation projects.

If the soil is poor, or not well tilled, rye then oat 2nd.

Remember, general fertilizer recommendations is for maintenance of a good soil system.  If your soil is poor, you need some more.

I always put some lime every time I fertilize.  Not only it adds calcium and magnesium, it also releases nutrients the soil would give up a bit slower.  I am talking like 200lbs per acre per year.   Fertilizer lowers the pH to some extent, so the bit of lime levels it out.

Edited August 31, 2018 by sailinghudson25

[wolc123]

I am going to put in about 3/4 of an acre of wheat/soybean/white clover mix this weekend.  I will work about 30 pounds of 15-15-15 into the ground, prior to broadcasting the wheat and soybeans.   Then I will cultipack, broadcast the clover, then cultipack again, at ninety degrees from the first time.    This ground is very rich in organic matter, because the buckwheat on it was almost four feet tall when I bush-hogged it a few days ago.  I don't think much fertilizer will be necessary.  For seed quantities,  I will use about a bushel of wheat, a half bushel of soybeans, and about 5 pounds of clover.   

I have found wheat to be quite effective, compared to rye grain.  The deer seem to like it more, but not quite as much as oats.  Wheat is also cheaper and easier to find than rye.   Adding the soybeans to the mix gets the deer using the plot quickly.  They seem to prefer fresh-sprouted soybeans over just about any other food-source (including oats).     

[Pygmy]

Thanks, Guys....Sounds like 150 # / acre is a good round number...

[Pygmy]

I broadcast also and do not have a cultipacker, so I work the seed in either by discing or dragging a double layer of chain link fence...  Which do you guys think is a better method of working in...??..  I'm talking medium sized seed like wheat or oats...

[wolc123]

I don't have a cultipacker over at my folks place, and I usually just run over it multiple times with an atv.  Those wide tires push the seed in as good as a cultipacker, it just takes a little longer to get the job done.   I have also dragged a railroad tie, chained at both ends , but the atv tire method seems to get more uniform germination.   

I would consider broadcasting some white clover on that plot, and then going over it again with the tires.   When you cut the wheat off in the early summer next year, that clover will take off like crazy, as long as you soil is not to acidic. That is another reason to go light on the fertilizer, it tends to acidify the soil.    

[LET EM GROW]

I also recommend mixing in some clovers if you'd like to turn that into a nice perennial plot. The WW and clover will be first to green next spring. You can still always broadcast WW into clovers the following Fall to get the "N" clover is pumping out, and help keep weeds at bay.

Disk up your plot to a decent seed bed, spread WW seed, lightly disk it in or find something to drag(tires, log, fence etc). then if possible use your tractor/truck/atv tires to pack in the plot. Packing helps in several ways. A lawn roller works great too.  IF you have rain coming soon, you can leave seed on top and rain will do the rest for you. I broadcast WW on top of an existing plot, 2 nights ago, and last night it had already started germinating laying on top of the un tilled soil.. If adding clovers, a mix of whites will make a great multi year stand with little maintenance, if you want a shorter lived clover plot use med. red clover.  Broadcast clover over the top when done packing. 

Im big on mixing seeds in all of my plantings. Im not a fan of Mono cultured plantings. The right mixes will make a plot even better.  They also can help your herd more, as well as your soils. 

[stubborn1VT]

8 hours ago, Pygmy said:

I broadcast also and do not have a cultipacker, so I work the seed in either by discing or dragging a double layer of chain link fence...  Which do you guys think is a better method of working in...??..  I'm talking medium sized seed like wheat or oats...

My vote is for the chain link. I have used a small set of chain/ spike-tooth harrows to cover seed.  I just flip them over to lightly cover seed.  

I have also got good results with truck or ATV tires.  Last year I bought a small lawn roller.  I can cover quite a bit of ground with it behind my 4 wheeler, and it does a nice job.  Was well worth the $125.

[LET EM GROW]

Just remember, especially with grain seed and fresh dirt, turkeys love it!  If your seed is exposed and not all under the soil, if those pretty birds get there quick enough, they will have a party in your plot just a picking your seed! lol. Hence the reason i always seed cereals heavy now. Been there..

[landtracdeerhunter]

18 hours ago, landtracdeerhunter said:

For harvest grains, we put quarter ton of 10-20-20 to the acre. Spread up to 90# urea in the Spring.  Summer fallowing your soil will give far better results. Inert matter will be decomposed, and nitrogen will be available for the wheat to grow good root system.

Your only doing a simple food plot, throw on 150# and see what she does. 

Rough day yesterday. Meant 250# to the acre, not 500#. That wheat would be growing to the moon.

Edited August 31, 2018 by landtracdeerhunter

[Pygmy]

I checked the plot this morning..Pretty gooey after yesterday's rain...Dirt was clumping and sticking to the tractor tires and discs...Hoping for a couple of dry days and maybe plant Sunday..Picked up the wheat and the fertilizer today....300 lb. of seed for 2 acres and 300 lb of 19-19-19....

[WNYBuckHunter]

14 hours ago, Pygmy said:

I broadcast also and do not have a cultipacker, so I work the seed in either by discing or dragging a double layer of chain link fence...  Which do you guys think is a better method of working in...??..  I'm talking medium sized seed like wheat or oats...

I dont bother packing in winter rye, just leave it on top and it will grow.

[wolc123]

They let us out of work a little early today and I just got my last plot in this afternoon.  I went a little lighter on the wheat and heavier on the soybeans, due to seed availability.   The ground worked up well and there was just a little moisture left in it.  The cultipacker pushed the wheat and soybeans pretty good into the fluffed up soil, so I don't think the resident flock of turkeys will get too much of it.   I don't think they will bother with the tiny clover seed that I spread on top of the packed soil, then packed again.   I imagine they will start hitting those soybeans hard as soon as they start to sprout.  The forecast is calling for rain on Tuesday, so that should get it going.  Hopefully, a nice plump little hen will be hitting some on opening day so I can put my fall tag on her.   That will keep me occupied as I am waiting for crossbow deer season to open.   

[landtracdeerhunter]

9 hours ago, wolc123 said:

They let us out of work a little early today and I just got my last plot in this afternoon.  I went a little lighter on the wheat and heavier on the soybeans, due to seed availability.   The ground worked up well and there was just a little moisture left in it.  The cultipacker pushed the wheat and soybeans pretty good into the fluffed up soil, so I don't think the resident flock of turkeys will get too much of it.   I don't think they will bother with the tiny clover seed that I spread on top of the packed soil, then packed again.   I imagine they will start hitting those soybeans hard as soon as they start to sprout.  The forecast is calling for rain on Tuesday, so that should get it going.  Hopefully, a nice plump little hen will be hitting some on opening day so I can put my fall tag on her.   That will keep me occupied as I am waiting for crossbow deer season to open.   

Rhinehart's should have their common winter wheat all bagged up and ready to go. Butch is usually right on the ball.

[sailinghudson25]

disc's vs drag.   If the soil is well broken and easy to sift with your hand, then the drag will do.  If the soil is wet a bit, or has good clay content, I would use the disc.  The ideal is 1/2 to 1 inch depth bury.  I always like to double work a fresh field.  Get it tilled up, then wait a week roughly to lightly work it again.  Beats up and kills most young weed seed shoots.

I use spring harrows.

When I work in something to exisitng clover, I usually mow, then spray a few days later, then spread and roll it in with the tires.  I spot treat real weedy spots with a weedwacker and weedwacker based rototiller.  No need to go too nuts with weed removal if there a few.  Deer eat them too at times, and frequent mowing when they start producing young seed will keep them at bay.

Cutlipackers are great, but ATV tires work ok too.

[Pygmy]

27 minutes ago, sailinghudson25 said:

disc's vs drag.   If the soil is well broken and easy to sift with your hand, then the drag will do.  If the soil is wet a bit, or has good clay content, I would use the disc.  The ideal is 1/2 to 1 inch depth bury.  I always like to double work a fresh field.  Get it tilled up, then wait a week roughly to lightly work it again.  Beats up and kills most young weed seed shoots.

I use spring harrows.

When I work in something to exisitng clover, I usually mow, then spray a few days later, then spread and roll it in with the tires.  I spot treat real weedy spots with a weedwacker and weedwacker based rototiller.  No need to go too nuts with weed removal if there a few.  Deer eat them too at times, and frequent mowing when they start producing young seed will keep them at bay.

Cutlipackers are great, but ATV tires work ok too.

In that case, I'll go with the discs, because there is considerable clay content and it will DEFINITELY be on the damp side....

I have several options to tamp it down...ATV tires    Deisel  Intl Tractor tires, etc...…...

[Pygmy]

My partner and I got the plot planted this morning....Got what I think is really good coverage with the broadcaster on the ATV..

Disced over the seed and fertilizer and then drove over it with the 4 wheeler to tamp it down...

It is definitely the WETTEST ground I have ever planted in, but hopefully it will do well nonetheless..Certainly won't need any rain for germination.....hehehe....We have a few hot days forecast and hopefully it won't be long before we see some green

Many thanks for all of you for your advice and input....I'll keep posted and let you know how it turns out..

[LET EM GROW]

On 9/2/2018 at 6:57 PM, Pygmy said:

My partner and I got the plot planted this morning....Got what I think is really good coverage with the broadcaster on the ATV..

Disced over the seed and fertilizer and then drove over it with the 4 wheeler to tamp it down...

It is definitely the WETTEST ground I have ever planted in, but hopefully it will do well nonetheless..Certainly won't need any rain for germination.....hehehe....We have a few hot days forecast and hopefully it won't be long before we see some green

Many thanks for all of you for your advice and input....I'll keep posted and let you know how it turns out..

broadcast in some clovers in the next week or so and you'll have a dandy of a clover plot for next year if youd' like with basically no maintenance whatsoever. Send us some pics when you get the chance! food plot pics are the next best thing besides harvest pics! lol 

[corydd7]

No wheat this year for me. The local co-op said they had trouble getting it in stock this year. I'm going with rye in my plots with low ph and I'm going to try Triticale in the plot I have with good soil.  I took the advise last year from the co-op and the same guy said if you liked how the deer ate the wheat you will love triticale, it's just a little more particular when it comes to the soil.

For those who are interested https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triticale

[LET EM GROW]

I prefer Triticale over all of them as well. Just tough to get unless i go straight to Seedway in hall. going to try and grab some myself in the next day or 2. Planted it last year for the first time. Nutritionally its the best as well. 

[Pygmy]

Within 4 days of planting, my wheat plot was germinating....

I checked it two days ago....Lush, green  and solid....Looks great...Guess planting when damp was not a problem !!

[stubborn1VT]

Glad to hear it.  Hope the local herd likes it.  Now if you can keep Florence from pizzing all over it...