Would You Support Elk in NY?

[Hunter007]

25 minutes ago, G-Man said:

When you hunt hogs the sounder scatters and can and do breed 3 to 4 x a year. 6 to 18 in a little and ready to breed in 6 months. We would never be able to control numbers and in area they are now they are expanding.. the main reason they put a ban on hunting them is to catch them in pen traps as as group to eliminate them

That's in the south between the hunters the weather Terrain and less food here that would not happen and you could have a super long season and unlimited tags  just to make sure  it wouldn't get out of control.  

[Rattler]

16 minutes ago, Storm914 said:

That's in the south between the hunters the weather Terrain and less food here that would not happen and you could have a super long season and unlimited tags  just to make sure  it wouldn't get out of control.  

They are out of control in many areas of Europe where the weather, terrain and hunting pressure is very much like NY state.  They destroy habitats and overwhelm other animal species where they thrive.  I, for one, never want to see them in NY state.

[Rattler]

36 minutes ago, GreeneHunter said:

I think they would have to make a mad dash up I80 to get to the Adirondacks .... probably stand a better chance up there ?

The DAKS have the acreage, but not the forage, to support a large Elk herd.  Elk consume a lot of food, especially in very cold climates.

[Hunter007]

3 hours ago, Rattler said:

They are out of control in many areas of Europe where the weather, terrain and hunting pressure is very much like NY state.  They destroy habitats and overwhelm other animal species where they thrive.  I, for one, never want to see them in NY state.

Actually this experiment has already been done .

The first Europeans  brought over hogs from Europe  not only to places like Florida but all the north east just like horses some did get loose  go wild but look in the areas like new york there are none  of those orginal horses  or pigs  left.  What does that tell you ?it 

Tells you  they simply have a hard time in  the  north east  to survive.  And with hunting doubtful would be a problem like it is down south . If they could not keep from getting killed off back then with less people around ,  with more people and less habitat for them to hide in now it's even less likely the population would get out of control.   Well anyway DEC and plenty of other folks dont want them here so its not going to happen . 

 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Storm914

[Nytracker]

Yes to elk ... no to hogs. Yes to elk only if they have full inclusion  for crossbows..

[tommyc50]

no take a ride down rt. 80 and see how many cow elk are dead on the side of the road as much as you see deer.

[Hunter007]

Just now, tommyc50 said:

no take a ride down rt. 80 and see how many cow elk are dead on the side of the road as much as you see deer.

At least pigs are better at not getting hit by cars .

Plus I like pork chops better then venison or horn

but what ever farmers and DEC dont want  them here so it's not going to happen. 

but a guy can dream cant he

[Chef]

no take a ride down rt. 80 and see how many cow elk are dead on the side of the road as much as you see deer.

I’ve driven rt 80 from the gap to Youngstown many times and have never seen a dead cow elk


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[G-Man]

8 hours ago, Storm914 said:

That's in the south between the hunters the weather Terrain and less food here that would not happen and you could have a super long season and unlimited tags  just to make sure  it wouldn't get out of control.  

That's here java and Corning

.. you dont want them 

[BowmanMike]

On 12/9/2018 at 11:43 AM, Storm914 said:

Actually this experiment has already been done .

The first Europeans  brought over hogs from Europe  not only to places like Florida but all the north east just like horses some did get loose  go wild but look in the areas like new york there are none  of those orginal horses  or pigs  left.  What does that tell you ?it 

Tells you  they simply have a hard time in  the  north east  to survive.  And with hunting doubtful would be a problem like it is down south . If they could not keep from getting killed off back then with less people around ,  with more people and less habitat for them to hide in now it's even less likely the population would get out of control.   Well anyway DEC and plenty of other folks dont want them here so its not going to happen . 

 

Dude,i doubt the settlers brought wild boars over with them,they are not easy to handle. I grew up in Germany,and the boars are out of control there. Nothing is working on reducing their numbers. Maybe the wolves conung back into germany will help.

I gotta wonder where you get your information,or dont you?

[Hunter007]

2 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

Dude,i doubt the settlers brought wild boars over with them,they are not easy to handle. I grew up in Germany,and the boars are out of control there. Nothing is working on reducing their numbers. Maybe the wolves conung back into germany will help.

I gotta wonder where you get your information,or dont you?

That is a fact 

Not wild hogs 

They became wild when let loose or escaped like the horses that are here now that are wild .

Edited December 17, 2018 by Storm914

[Buckmaster7600]

Never would happen, the first car elk accident would end in a huge lawsuit.


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[Buckmaster7600]

I’m not getting into the ignorance of introducing hogs.


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[Rattler]

5 hours ago, Buckmaster7600 said:

Never would happen, the first car elk accident would end in a huge lawsuit.

Elk have been hit by cars in PA, but no lawsuit has produced any results.  State laws are written to protect the state from citizen lawsuits.

[Hunter007]

I wonder how much of the problem is real and how much of it is man made farmers and hunters releasing hogs just to hunt . This article talks about it here .

https://www.agweb.com/mobile/article/pigs-dont-fly-feral-hog-spread-is-a-man-made-mess-naa-chris-bennett/

 

 

[Rattler]

The article does a good job of presenting the damage hogs do to crops and other wildlife.  I'm sure some of the spread is due to illegal transport by idiots who want them around, maybe not as much as suspected, but enough to explain the rapid increase in their numbers in many areas.

If you notice, some of the states mentioned that are having problems with hogs now, like Wisconsin, the climate is just as harsh as it is in NY.  They would survive here.  IMHO, they would be the death knell to the ailing agricultural industry that is struggling to survive in NY as it is.

Interestingly, NY does not allow anyone to shoot them.  Shooting them causes the hogs to scatter and prevents taking them all out.  Here they want to trap them, which offers a better chance of getting them all and cleaning out any area they have infested.

I don't want to see any wild hog in my neck of the woods, unless it says Harley-Davidson on it.

 

 

[Rattler]

23 hours ago, BowmanMike said:

Dude,i doubt the settlers brought wild boars over with them,they are not easy to handle. I grew up in Germany,and the boars are out of control there. Nothing is working on reducing their numbers. Maybe the wolves coming back into germany will help.

The Spanish Conquistadors did big domestic pigs to North America in the early 1500's.  They released them so they would have a reliable food source here each time they returned.  Domestic pigs running loose become wild and revert back to wild hog like features.  They are not the same as a Russian wild boar, but they do just as much damage to the habitat.  That's how wild boar got started in North America.

But Hernando de Soto was the true "father of the American pork industry." Hebrought America's first 13 pigs to Tampa Bay, Fla., in 1539. ... Pig production spread rapidly through the new colonies. Cortés introduced hogs to New Mexico in 1600 while Sir Walter Raleigh brought sows to Jamestown colony in 1607.Apr 10, 2009

A History of Pigs in America - Food - The Austin Chronicle

Edited December 18, 2018 by Rattler

[Hunter007]

4 minutes ago, Rattler said:

The Spanish Conquistadors did big domestic pigs to North America in the early 1500's.  They released them so they would have a reliable food source here each time they returned.  Domestic pigs running loose become wild and revert back to wild hog like features.  They are not the same as a Russian wild boar, but they do just as much damage to the habitat.  That's how wild boar got started in North America.

But Hernando de Soto was the true "father of the American pork industry." Hebrought America's first 13 pigs to Tampa Bay, Fla., in 1539. ... Pig production spread rapidly through the new colonies. Cortés introduced hogs to New Mexico in 1600 while Sir Walter Raleigh brought sows to Jamestown colony in 1607.Apr 10, 2009

A History of Pigs in America - Food - The Austin Chronicle

They also did that on pretty much every island they went to 

[BowmanMike]

12 minutes ago, Rattler said:

The Spanish Conquistadors did big domestic pigs to North America in the early 1500's.  They released them so they would have a reliable food source here each time they returned.  Domestic pigs running loose become wild and revert back to wild hog like features.  They are not the same as a Russian wild boar, but they do just as much damage to the habitat.  That's how wild boar got started in North America.

But Hernando de Soto was the true "father of the American pork industry." Hebrought America's first 13 pigs to Tampa Bay, Fla., in 1539. ... Pig production spread rapidly through the new colonies. Cortés introduced hogs to New Mexico in 1600 while Sir Walter Raleigh brought sows to Jamestown colony in 1607.Apr 10, 2009

A History of Pigs in America - Food - The Austin Chronicle

I am  talking about wild boar,not domestic pigs. A pig that escapes does not make a wild boar.

[Hunter007]

21 minutes ago, Rattler said:

The article does a good job of presenting the damage hogs do to crops and other wildlife.  I'm sure some of the spread is due to illegal transport by idiots who want them around, maybe not as much as suspected, but enough to explain the rapid increase in their numbers in many areas.

If you notice, some of the states mentioned that are having problems with hogs now, like Wisconsin, the climate is just as harsh as it is in NY.  They would survive here.  IMHO, they would be the death knell to the ailing agricultural industry that is struggling to survive in NY as it is.

Interestingly, NY does not allow anyone to shoot them.  Shooting them causes the hogs to scatter and prevents taking them all out.  Here they want to trap them, which offers a better chance of getting them all and cleaning out any area they have infested.

I don't want to see any wild hog in my neck of the woods, unless it says Harley-Davidson on it.

 

 

True but there are a lot less people  around in Wisconsin so the hogs would have more places to hyde but not going to argue farmers dont want to risk it so best to go with what agriculture says .

[Hunter007]

1 minute ago, BowmanMike said:

I am  talking about wild boar,not domestic pigs. A pig that escapes does not make a wild boar.

They all become wild after a few generations. 

But  I believe you are talking about the Russian species that are truly adapted for cold weather 

[BowmanMike]

1 minute ago, Storm914 said:

True but there are a lot less people  around in Wisconsin so the hogs would have more places to hyde but not going to argue farmers dont want to risk it so best to go with what agriculture says .

germany is the size of ny and pa combined,and there's almost 90 mil people living there. So human population density has nothing to do with boar population.

[Rattler]

8 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

I am  talking about wild boar,not domestic pigs. A pig that escapes does not make a wild boar.

A domestic pig will become like a wild boar when living wild for a few years.  They morph into wild pigs to adapt to the wild.  Their offspring do likewise very quickly.  They will not look like a European wild boar, but they will look like the wild boar we see in the south today.  There are some true European wild boar in the US today, but these escaped from game preserves where they had been brought from Europe for hunting here.

[Hunter007]

7 minutes ago, BowmanMike said:

germany is the size of ny and pa combined,and there's almost 90 mil people living there. So human population density has nothing to do with boar population.

Yea try getting a hunting or trapping license in Germany let alone getting land  permission overthere regulations over there keep most people out of hunting and trapping all together that is a big reason why .

Edited December 18, 2018 by Storm914

[Rattler]

Actually hunting clubs are very popular in Germany.  But it's a different culture where hunters are well respected and honored for their ethics and dedication to the sport.  Rules are strict and everything is run by hunt masters, but hunting in Germany is far from rare.