A list of the proposed chemicals to be used in the hydro-fracking process in NYS

[Ididit4myboy]

Please read and feel free to look up some of the chemicals in MSDS. Only knowledgeable New Yorkers can make informed decisions. Remember this is our and our childrens future at stake.  http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/materials_minerals_pdf/ogprdsgeisch6.pdf

[Ididit4myboy]

You may also note that in the chart, most of the chemicals that go in do NOT come back out in the flow back process. Also note that some of the chemicals that may POSSIBLY come out of the flow back process are very nasty, such as: several types of benzene, arsenic, chloroform, and cyanide.

[First-light]

touchy subject, glad we don't live in PA. It's like the wild west with the drilling. I think you will see drilling mid to late 2012 in NY. Tioga and Broome counties first. A lot of drinking water vs a lot of cash to be made, hmmm-who will win??????

[Ididit4myboy]

All i can say is that i have read the report and in my OPINION the money that it will bring will last only for a short time, 30 years tops. And in that 30 years they expect roughly 50,000 wells to be drilled on average 1600 wells a year. At what cost? Water, air, plant and animal damage? Damage to the human race ? I really think the OVERALL damage will cost us more than we know at this point. Its seems kinda like asbestos to me everyone thought it was great until people noticed the repercussions from it. You know why does it always seem to take 30 years down the road to find out," O we shouldnt have put that asbestos in that school it gave cancer to most of the kids." You know why does it always have to be money now we will worry about the problems later. So in my OPINION i say we worry about what could happen to us, and our children now! Instead of finding that we've made a huge mistake 30 years down the road.  I think we need to move away from fracking and learn from other states good fortune or mistakes. Another point is the price of natural gas can only go up so if we wait and take a harder look and find out that it is ok or maybe they find a better way to get the gas out then we are due to make more money when everyone else is tapped out. Its like money in the bank and the numbers can only go up. So with that said I say NAY at least for now.   

[wztirem]

If we Americans were not such "pigs" when it comes to energy consumption we would not be having this discussion.

[growalot]

So what do you guys think...for we all know it's coming ...ppl just never learn...anyways years ago before we moved to the fingerlakes region the gas companies came in to  buy gas rights...from what  a local told me....that was quite a while ago...any how the Macellus shale deposit comes right up  through  many "protected water sheds"...how protected do you think the Honeoye ....Canadice...Hemlock lake areas are now that the state has them and all possible drilling areas are above and drain down to them? yes I know Honeoye wasn't in that purchase...just general area mentioned

[sits in trees]

All i can say is that i have read the report and in my OPINION the money that it will bring will last only for a short time, 30 years tops. And in that 30 years they expect roughly 50,000 wells to be drilled on average 1600 wells a year. At what cost? Water, air, plant and animal damage? Damage to the human race ? I really think the OVERALL damage will cost us more than we know at this point. Its seems kinda like asbestos to me everyone thought it was great until people noticed the repercussions from it. You know why does it always seem to take 30 years down the road to find out," O we shouldnt have put that asbestos in that school it gave cancer to most of the kids." You know why does it always have to be money now we will worry about the problems later. So in my OPINION i say we worry about what could happen to us, and our children now! Instead of finding that we've made a huge mistake 30 years down the road.  I think we need to move away from fracking and learn from other states good fortune or mistakes. Another point is the price of natural gas can only go up so if we wait and take a harder look and find out that it is ok or maybe they find a better way to get the gas out then we are due to make more money when everyone else is tapped out. Its like money in the bank and the numbers can only go up. So with that said I say NAY at least for now. 

somehow the quote "Drill baby Drill" doesnt sound that good anymore but where do we as sportsman stand, on one side you have the tree huggers who dont want anything including us hunters in the woods and on the other you have BIG business that*)$%well you know what they wanna do to us! just look what they have already done to us

[Ididit4myboy]

We New Yorkers need to make OUR OFFICIALS that WE ELECTED accountable. We need to voice our opinions loud and clear. I just had a son last year and I think all the time, "How can I NOT leave things better for him than the way they were left for me" We are playing russian roulette with our environment, our health and well-being. Hydro-fracking is wrong on so many levels that i REALLY do not see how they can even concieve the idea of allowing it. It is not going to make things any better for my family's future, or the future of this state. So why are we going to do it? Are we going to do it because the money is here and now? That's just not good enough for me and I'm no rich man by any monetary means. Do you guys have sons and daughters? Do you worry about how you are going to leave this state, this country, this world to your sons, your daughters, your nieces and nephews. Whats really important here the money or the people that we care about that we have to leave behind someday? "In God We Trust" and I hope the people of this state realize what is truly important. I know what matters most to me in my life.   

[Dave]

I have been following this closely since we were first contacted buy a gas company Landsman in 2008. Offering $1800 per acre we have 180 acres for a 10 year lease. I don't own the land by myself but with 6 members of my hunting club. I am out numbered 5-1 who are in favor of gas drilling, just greed pure and simple.  So they joined the Sullivan Delaware land owners association, glad they did because nothing has happened for 3 years. They think they will get more than the $1800 per acre. A friend of mine in Long Eddy signed for $1000 an acre 3 yrs ago and they were paid quickly right after they signed the lease.  I have 20 acres just down the road from my club and was offered $550 an acre for a 3 year lease. This was in March 2011. My answer was hell no. What some people don't know that once they find the gas they have to pipe it to a Gas Transmission line to transport it. So they get to dig up the rest of your land, cut down your trees, destroy your roads with heavy equipment, etc. It will change the Upper Delaware River landscape forever :'(

There are certain areas in NYS that are off limits to Gas Drilling .The NY water shed area for NYC and Syracuse and not in NYS forestland. If this was such a safe process why ban it in certain areas, why not ban it period. What about our water is it not just as important as the water shipped downstate?

Plus with all this Natural gas it will not change things like the You hear on the Commercials for Natural gas clean energy. It will not replace gasoline so that is a myth about replacing foreign oil. How many CNG gas stations can you think of ? Not many there are a few in NYC but not for the general public.

Remember there is only so much land and they aren't making any more protect what you have it's precoious. Just imagine thousands of gas wells being drilled what will the landscape look like?

Just my opinion and I am not in favor of Hydro Fracking. I have worked for a gas company for 38 years and I know the dangers associated with this product.

Dave

[Ididit4myboy]

Glad to hear I'm not alone Dave. I hope all the guys and gals on the forum hear you and really listen to your warning. You having worked in the gas industry for 38 years that's one powerful message.     

[Doc]

I am bothered by the fact that there has been no exhaustive study by state or federal agencies such that they can come flat out and describe with absolute credibility exactly what all the ramifications of this process are, (primarily, safe or not). The stories go back and forth and there is no shortage of opinions from special interest factions on both sides. However the allegations heavily involve public safety which is certainly something that the government ought to be vigorously investigating, wouldn't you think? And yet I have not heard a definitive position by the state or fed on the issue. And when I say opinion, I am talking about actions to either declare the process harmless, or an outright ban on procuring gas in that fashion. And yet we hear neither, which leaves the average citizen a bit confused and dazed by the varying opinions from both sides that seem to have equal credibility. This is not an issue that should be decided by special interests, rumor or fake science, from either side.

[First-light]

If this gas reserve becomes  a true proven reserve, that will only happen when the drilling starts next year, what are you going to do when Chesapeake Energy offers you $4,500 bucks an acre and 20% royalties on your 100 acres. I find it hard to believe people will say no. The landscape will truly change if NY wells start producing next year.

[Dave]

I am bothered by the fact that there has been no exhaustive study by state or federal agencies such that they can come flat out and describe with absolute credibility exactly what all the ramifications of this process are, (primarily, safe or not). The stories go back and forth and there is no shortage of opinions from special interest factions on both sides. However the allegations heavily involve public safety which is certainly something that the government ought to be vigorously investigating, wouldn't you think? And yet I have not heard a definitive position by the state or fed on the issue. And when I say opinion, I am talking about actions to either declare the process harmless, or an outright ban on procuring gas in that fashion. And yet we hear neither, which leaves the average citizen a bit confused and dazed by the varying opinions from both sides that seem to have equal credibility. This is not an issue that should be decided by special interests, rumor or fake science, from either side.

Doc, last month the French Government banned the Hydro Fracking for Natural Gas. That has to tell you something is wrong, I don't care what people think of the French. I think they would rather err on the side of safety to the people and at the same time saving the environment. This is not just an area of France it's the whole country.

Those in favor of this process claim it will bring business and prosperity to the area. Yes, it will but at what price? Some say that there is poverty in this area of the state and it will help land owners save their land. I don't remember these same land owners selling off their property before the gas companies came in and started leasing their property. Well if they were in the same position than it's just about the money period.

They were holding on before the leasing came about so what has changed? These are just excuses to justify the drilling for gas.

If this takes off and as predicted there could be thousands of wells drilled in NY. The social issues will also affect the quality of life.

There is no way to guarantee that once these wells are drilled that the gas will only find it's way up the pipe to the well head. There is a term called gas migration , this means that the gas will follow the path of least resistance. So once drilled it could migrate to homes or just vent through the soil. And with out a gas detector you would never know it, till it's too late and it either ignites or if in a confined structure it will explode. There is so much the general public doesn't know about Natural gas, that if they did they wouldn't want it on their property. Lets hope NYS does the right thing.

Dave

[steve863]

If this gas reserve becomes  a true proven reserve, that will only happen when the drilling starts next year, what are you going to do when Chesapeake Energy offers you $4,500 bucks an acre and 20% royalties on your 100 acres. I find it hard to believe people will say no. The landscape will truly change if NY wells start producing next year.

+1  Many people would sell their own mothers for a lot less.  No way in hell that the majority of landowners up there won't be taking this kind of many.  Most people don't give a crap about the environment once they are getting good money.

[Dave]

If this gas reserve becomes  a true proven reserve, that will only happen when the drilling starts next year, what are you going to do when Chesapeake Energy offers you $4,500 bucks an acre and 20% royalties on your 100 acres. I find it hard to believe people will say no. The landscape will truly change if NY wells start producing next year.

Burt money has never impressed me, I am almost 62 and at this point in life I have provided for my needs. I would rather protect the land and water than line my pockets. But you are right some people are all about the money. Imagine what NY will look like once this gets stared, I shutter think about it. Who will police these well drillers?

Dave

[steve863]

If this gas reserve becomes  a true proven reserve, that will only happen when the drilling starts next year, what are you going to do when Chesapeake Energy offers you $4,500 bucks an acre and 20% royalties on your 100 acres. I find it hard to believe people will say no. The landscape will truly change if NY wells start producing next year.

Burt money has never impressed me, I am almost 62 and at this point in life I have provided for my needs. I would rather protect the land and water than line my pockets. But you are right some people are all about the money. Imagine what NY will look like once this gets stared, I shutter think about it. Who will police these well drillers?

Dave

You are to be commended, Dave!  Unfortunately the landowners I know at least will be tripping over themselves to sign up to such a deal.  They could care less what the future impact will be as long as they have money in their pockets now.

[Ididit4myboy]

Doc I strongly urge you to become informed. NYSDEC's latest study is based on scientific research in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. I assure you I am NOT a special interest group unless you want to count my family as one. You think I'm a tree hugger? The only time I hug a tree is when I'm getting in or out of my treestand. I am a realist I try to base my views and decisions on REAL world facts. Lets do as VJP says and end some of the ignorance here on the forum. We need to be informed on this one it's more important than you may think. I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE ON THE FORUM TO READ THE REPORT IT WILL ENLIGHTEN YOU. I AM GOING TO PUT A POLL UP DO NOT VOTE UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THE REPORT! I TRULY BELIEVE THAT AFTER READING THE REPORT WE WILL HAVE AN ALMOST UNANAMOUS OUTCOME. WHICH IM SURE HAS ALMOST NEVER HAPPENED ON THE FORUM ESPECIALLY FOR SUCH A HOT TOPIC. IF WE CAN AGREE ON THIS THEN MAYBE WE CAN REALLY MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THIS STATE THAT WE CALL HOME. SO PLEASE READ THE REPORT AND THEN VOTE.

[Doc]

Doc, last month the French Government banned the Hydro Fracking for Natural Gas. ............

.....There is no way to guarantee that once these wells are drilled that the gas will only find it's way up the pipe to the well head. There is a term called gas migration , this means that the gas will follow the path of least resistance. So once drilled it could migrate to homes or just vent through the soil. And with out a gas detector you would never know it, till it's too late and it either ignites or if in a confined structure it will explode. There is so much the general public doesn't know about Natural gas, that if they did they wouldn't want it on their property. Lets hope NYS does the right thing.

Dave

These are the things that I was talking about. The list of potential disasters is long and fairly impressive. This is what I would consider vital issues of public safety, which is one of the prime responsibilities of state, local and federal government. So the question is quite natural ...... Where are the government warnings and legal opinions on the propriety of these drilling measures?

The French have outlawed it ..... do they have any studies or research to back up that position, or is it simply an emotional, "what-if" position. If they have research, we need it. It's hard to take a defined position with so little scientific info.

[Doc]

Doc I strongly urge you to become informed. NYSDEC's latest study is based on scientific research in Pennsylvania and West Virginia. I assure you I am NOT a special interest group unless you want to count my family as one. You think I'm a tree hugger? The only time I hug a tree is when I'm getting in or out of my treestand. I am a realist I try to base my views and decisions on REAL world facts. Lets do as VJP says and end some of the ignorance here on the forum. We need to be informed on this one it's more important than you may think. I WOULD LIKE EVERYONE ON THE FORUM TO READ THE REPORT IT WILL ENLIGHTEN YOU. I AM GOING TO PUT A POLL UP DO NOT VOTE UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THE REPORT! I TRULY BELIEVE THAT AFTER READING THE REPORT WE WILL HAVE AN ALMOST UNANAMOUS OUTCOME. WHICH IM SURE HAS ALMOST NEVER HAPPENED ON THE FORUM ESPECIALLY FOR SUCH A HOT TOPIC. IF WE CAN AGREE ON THIS THEN MAYBE WE CAN REALLY MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE IN THIS STATE THAT WE CALL HOME. SO PLEASE READ THE REPORT AND THEN VOTE.

Let me assure you that I will be trying to get myself up to speed on this issue as best I can. However, I must admit that if the DEC has conducted a sanctioned piece of research and determined that hydro-fracking is as dangerous to the welfare of the state's population as is being portrayed, why on earth would there not be a scurry of activity in the state legislature to outlaw the practice. That basically is the core of my question, and I have not heard a reply to that.

[Dave]

Doc, last month the French Government banned the Hydro Fracking for Natural Gas. ............

.....There is no way to guarantee that once these wells are drilled that the gas will only find it's way up the pipe to the well head. There is a term called gas migration , this means that the gas will follow the path of least resistance. So once drilled it could migrate to homes or just vent through the soil. And with out a gas detector you would never know it, till it's too late and it either ignites or if in a confined structure it will explode. There is so much the general public doesn't know about Natural gas, that if they did they wouldn't want it on their property. Lets hope NYS does the right thing.

Dave

These are the things that I was talking about. The list of potential disasters is long and fairly impressive. This is what I would consider vital issues of public safety, which is one of the prime responsibilities of state, local and federal government. So the question is quite natural ...... Where are the government warnings and legal opinions on the propriety of these drilling measures?

The French have outlawed it ..... do they have any studies or research to back up that position, or is it simply an emotional, "what-if" position. If they have research, we need it. It's hard to take a defined position with so little scientific info.

Doc, the French get more than 75% of their power from nuclear power plants, which is a very controversial form of energy. But it seems they feel that Hydro fracking is much more dangerous to the public and the environment.

Doc, with so little scientific information.

1. The chemicals used can cause cancer

2. Gas has contaminated wells in Pa. peoples drinking water.

3. There have been many chemical spills that have contaminated streams

4 .Wells have caught fire

5. The backwash is laces with chemicals and also radioactive, but they don't want it classified as hazardous  waste. Because of the cost if treating it.

Dave

[Ididit4myboy]

Doc you will find that they FLAT OUT tell you (but not in so many words) in the report that it is potentially very dangerous and detrimental to the environment. They give you an almost 20 page list of the chemicals that go in (fracking fluid) and out (flow-back) of the wells. They have the list done in a manner that people have to do their own research in MSDS to find out the nasty part of the chemicals. There is a ton of $ at stake and that is why it is not on the 6'o clock news. But trust me when you read it, it oughta be on the 6'o clock news!

[orion]

Every thing in life is potentially dangerous. Cancer causing chemicals? What isn't?  How much oil drips from cars onto roads throughout NYC watershed and gets washed into reservoirs every rain storm? Lots of potentially dangerous things out there.

[Dave]

Every thing in life is potentially dangerous. Cancer causing chemicals? What isn't?  How much oil drips from cars onto roads throughout NYC watershed and gets washed into reservoirs every rain storm? Lots of potentially dangerous things out there.

I agree with you these things happen ,but what is your point? Are you saying it's ok to spill cancer causing chemicals into the NYC water shed area? These may be minor leaks , the Hydro Fracking would be major chemical spills in a concentrated area that would affect the drinking water for millions of people. Don't mean to put words in your mouth, don't understand what you are driving at. Explain!

Dave

[nyantler]

If you check...there has not been a single proven case where hydrofracking has contaminated a water supply, well or ground area. Having said that... I find it strange that they need to use such a toxic chemical when hydrofracturing for natural gas... hydrofracturing has been used for years for increasing the water volume in well water systems... but only water and high pressure are used to open the already existing fractures in the ground to allow more water flow.. why can't they do the same with natural gas minus the chemical????

[orion]

Just saying everything is potentially dangerous. I am not worrying about what some people call potentially dangerous. You would drive yourself nuts if you did. Which in itself is potentially dangerous