Multi shot assault crossbow

[Culvercreek hunt club]

10 minutes ago, Doc said:

It was not the place of NYB to push FOR any date for a youth hunt. Their charter and purpose was and is to protect what is deemed by the membership to be good for bowhunting. They were trying to do their job.

 

So opposing the youth hunt without even suggesting an alternative is basically just opposing the youth hunt. Which you assert they did not do, but in reality they did.

And before you try to disagree this is actually #5 on their mission statement. So I guess you are wrong about that too. 

1. To develop greater outdoor opportunity for all, as essential to character building and physical well-being.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

So opposing the youth hunt without even suggesting an alternative is basically just opposing the youth hunt. Which you assert they did not do, but in reality they did. 

I thought I was quite clear when I said that it is not the place for NYB to take over the organization of dates of the youth gun. I am not disputing the fact that they did not take on the project of finding a suitable date for the hunt. That is not their purpose or responsibility. The name of the organization should make that clear. Look, you can whine and complain and make up whatever you want, but just because NYB did not come up with a solution to world hunger does not mean they are in favor of world hunger. Are they interested in youth hunting. As a matter of fact they do run the bowhunting version of a youth hunt. Are you aware of that or are you just cherry-picking those things that you think bolster your anti-NYB bias. But what you are refusing to understand is that NYB is for and about bowhunting. Their sole purpose is to protect bowhunting, not to organize dates for gun hunting events.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

I thought I was quite clear when I said that it is not the place for NYB to take over the organization of dates of the youth gun. I am not disputing the fact that they did not take on the project of finding a suitable date for the hunt. That is not their purpose or responsibility. The name of the organization should make that clear. Look, you can whine and complain and make up whatever you want, but just because NYB did not come up with a solution to world hunger does not mean they are in favor of world hunger. Are they interested in youth hunting. As a matter of fact they do run the bowhunting version of a youth hunt. Are you aware of that or are you just cherry-picking those things that you think bolster your anti-NYB bias. But what you are refusing to understand is that NYB is for and about bowhunting. Their sole purpose is to protect bowhunting, not to organize dates for gun hunting events.

 

"To develop greater outdoor opportunity for all, as essential to character building and physical well-being".

[Doc]

The following part of your response did not show up:

Quote: "And before you try to disagree this is actually #5 on their mission statement. So I guess you are wrong about that too. 

1. To develop greater outdoor opportunity for all, as essential to character building and physical well-being."

Are you trying to say that they do not do this? Does your reasoning then also include the fact that they do not offer to open up all of bowseason to guns to enhance greater opportunity for all? Do you really believe that there are not limits to this? Honestly, I have never seen anyone work so hard to come up with bogus reasons not to support a bowhunting advocacy group. Tell me, do you belong to any advocacy groups at all?

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

The following part of your response did not show up:

Quote: "And before you try to disagree this is actually #5 on their mission statement. So I guess you are wrong about that too. 

1. To develop greater outdoor opportunity for all, as essential to character building and physical well-being."

Are you trying to say that they do not do this? Does your reasoning then also include the fact that they do not offer to open up all of bowseason to guns to enhance greater opportunity for all? Do you really believe that there are not limits to this? Honestly, I have never seen anyone work so hard to come up with bogus reasons not to support a bowhunting advocacy group. Tell me, do you belong to any advocacy groups at all?

Oh I do, Just not them. So you are saying their intent of that statement is really To develop greater outdoor opportunity for all BOWHUNTERS, as essential to character building and physical well-being?

[Doc]

18 minutes ago, Culvercreek hunt club said:

Oh I do, Just not them. So you are saying their intent of that statement is really To develop greater outdoor opportunity for all BOWHUNTERS, as essential to character building and physical well-being?

You would have to contact the author of that statement. I am simply stating that it obviously is not an all inclusive statement. That would be contradictory to their purpose. Do you really believe that that statement is also an invite to the all gun hunters to join in the bow season? See how you are now grabbing at straws trying desperately to support your anti NYB bias? Now you are parsing the mission statement ...to prove what, I haven't a clue. You keep on trying and maybe you will come up with something that actually makes sense. But my question to you is if this poorly constructed sentence bothers you so much, did you ever think for a moment that sitting outside the organization carping about the wording would ever get it changed? 

By the way, the advocacy organizations that you do belong to, do you agree with position and activity and statement that they make? Do you think that those who sit on the outside criticizing ever have any impact on the organization, or are changes made from within by members?

Edited March 27, 2019 by Doc

[Culvercreek hunt club]

Just now, Doc said:

You would have to contact the author of that statement. I am simply stating that it obviously is not an all inclusive statement. That would be contradictory to their purpose. Do you really believe that that statement is also an invite to the all gun hunters to join in the bow season? See how you are now grabbing at straws trying desperately to support your anti NYB bias? Now you are parsing the mission statement ...to prove what, I haven't a clue. You keep on trying and maybe you will come up with something that actually makes sense. But my question to you is if this poorly constructed sentence bothers you so much, did you ever think for a moment that sitting outside the organization carping about the wording would ever get it changed?  

Doc, That IS part of their mission statement. A mission statement is suppose to be what the organization is about. It isn't someone's ill worded comment. Having seen their stance and approach to topics I have no desire to join a group such as that. I believe a more overall approach to ensuring the continuance of our hunting heritage is more beneficial and less divisive. 

MISSION STATEMENT

PURPOSE FOR WHICH NEW YORK BOWHUNTERS, INC. WAS FORMED:

1. To provide a forum for individuals and organizations interested in pursuing the art of bowhunting for game in a conscientious and sportsmanlike manner.
2. To promote a positive image of bowhunting by encouraging the highest standard of sportsmanship and strengthen citizen-sportsman understanding.
3. To develop, promote, and support an educational program of bowhunter safety, sportsmanship, conservation and wildlife management.
4. To inform the public in general of the importance of wildlife management, conservation, and the role of the bowhunter toward this end.
5. To develop greater outdoor opportunity for all, as essential to character building and physical well-being.
6. To stimulate public interest in and appreciation of the importance of wildlife and other natural resources and the need for wisely using, conserving, restoring, and managing wildlife and other natural resources.
7. To cooperate and assist other organizations with similar interests

[Doc]

So you honestly believe that because you scoured the entire site and found one sentence that could have been written more clearly, you are justified in condemning the whole organization. You apparently believe that by writing this sentence in that way, NYB will soon be inviting gunners into the bow season because it will "develop greater outdoor opportunity for all, as essential to character building and physical well-being". Do you really believe that? How about this: perhaps if you were a member, you could address this sentence that is so bothersome to you. You might even find the author and get him or somebody to re-write it.....lol. Or you can do as you are and sit on the outside whining and complaining about sentence structure.

I would suggest that you are feverishly searching for straws to grasp. I detect a bias that runs so deep that no amount of logic will ever change your mind and I am truly wasting my time indulging in this minutia that you have dredged up. I have had similar conversations with anti-hunters that are so deeply invested in their positions that they cannot be reasoned with. Basically you have decided that bowhunters do not deserve or need representation. You are determined not to engage and resolve whatever issues you have with them and continue on with this kind of silly argument that has devolved into a ridiculous disagreement with a sentence.

If the discussion takes a more reasonable and logical turn I may try to re-engage, but it has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer justify the time spent trying to convince someone who is biased beyond reason.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

So you honestly believe that because you scoured the entire site and found one sentence that could have been written more clearly, you are justified in condemning the whole organization. You apparently believe that by writing this sentence in that way, NYB will soon be inviting gunners into the bow season because it will "develop greater outdoor opportunity for all, as essential to character building and physical well-being". Do you really believe that? How about this: perhaps if you were a member, you could address this sentence that is so bothersome to you. You might even find the author and get him or somebody to re-write it.....lol. Or you can do as you are and sit on the outside whining and complaining about sentence structure.

I would suggest that you are feverishly searching for straws to grasp. I detect a bias that runs so deep that no amount of logic will ever change your mind and I am truly wasting my time indulging in this minutia that you have dredged up. I have had similar conversations with anti-hunters that are so deeply invested in their positions that they cannot be reasoned with. Basically you have decided that bowhunters do not deserve or need representation. You are determined not to engage and resolve whatever issues you have with them and continue on with this kind of silly argument that has devolved into a ridiculous disagreement with a sentence.

If the discussion takes a more reasonable and logical turn I may try to re-engage, but it has deteriorated to the point where I can no longer justify the time spent trying to convince someone who is biased beyond reason.

The man of extreme scenarios. LMFAO. I have been discussing their approach or lack of approach on the youth firearms season. NOT the invitation of every firearm into bow season. YOU were the one that said it was in now way their job to offer an alternative. That statement in their mission statement clearly shows it should have been if they weren't blind with their own bias. 

But Doc, honestly after seeing your approach to people and topics over the years on here and your narrow view of how only your opinion is right, I get how you could align yourself with them. You just really have a hard time having your statements proven wrong. 

 

AND knowing you are a member it fits right in with my stereotypes of how that organization is. So I'll still be passing. 

Edited March 27, 2019 by Culvercreek hunt club

[Doc]

Ha-ha-ha...... It went right over your head didn't it? My reference to NYB inviting the gunners into bow season was intended to show you that the intention of that statement was not intended to be taken as literal as you insist on doing. With your strict interpretation, you would have to actually believe that even an invite to gunners would be allowed. And of course any thinking person knows that that is not what was intended. So you really do know that there have to be limits on that statement even though you conveniently pretend not to see that.

Also, let me just confess that I am always sold on my opinions and yes it does take a powerful lot of work to dissuade me of the notions that I truly believe in. I don't see that as something that needs apology. However, if in my zeal to convince, I inadvertently offend, I do truly apologize for that.

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 3/27/2019 at 10:46 AM, wolc123 said:

 

 

We are getting mixed messages here.   The NY Bowhunters website works but the forum has been down for months and still is.   Does "neutered" mean taking away forum ?    Their misinformation filled "stance against crossbows" is still there on their website.  The specific "misinformation" I am referring to is the "increased wounding rate with the crossbow".  Nothing could be further from the truth than that.   

It appears that the NYB stance was/is almost entirely founded upon selfish elitism.   Their stand against the special youth gun weekend is another clear indication of that.   

By neutered, I mean that they are not the main group out there to have the ears of the politicians that vote on the issues, as they were for a long time.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:50 AM, Doc said:

So apparently anyone can make any "observation" that they want and it will not be considered to be a personal attack. So much for the term "personal attack".

To my knowledge, NYB never stood side by side with any animal rights people and your claim is simply a false statement that I guess you hope strengthens your attempts to disarm and destroy bowhunter representation and advocacy. I guess misinformation is ok as long as you are the one spewing it.  

In terms of the DEC and legislators setting limits, the only advocacy group for that sort of thing is at a minimum crippled, apparently much to your delight as well as stated purpose of the animal rights groups. So technological advances will be set only by those with a financial stake in stretching those limits as far as they want.

You know that if you and the others that had such horrible problem with the NYB had put your time and energy into joining and changing those views that you had difficulty with, perhaps you might have actually made the organization even stronger and suited to the needs that you felt entitled to. But how much easier it is to sit back and snipe at the organization until now we have no advocacy at all. But that would have meant putting your time and energy where your mouth is. You all have done the animal rights people a marvelous service. You deserve a big thank you from them.

 

Listen Doc, if you think that someone telling you that you are being ridiculous is a personal attack, then maybe you need to stay in your safe place and grab a coloring book.

As far as me joining NYB goes, why would I want to align myself with an elitist organization that does not hold the same values as I do? It has nothing to do with some assumed desire that you think I have to disarm or destroy bowhunters representation, because I have no such desire.

Culver summed up the "misinformation" thing, so I wont bother responding to that.

[WNYBuckHunter]

On 3/27/2019 at 10:38 AM, Doc said:

So when you label something as being "too far", I guess it is not so far that you would ever do anything about it, or actually take any real positions against it. Is that what makes it a mere "opinion" and not an actual "personal belief"?

I am curious as to what about those features makes them "too far" in your mind. What makes the "repeating" feature disqualify that contraption as a bona fide crossbow for hunting? I'm just curious what crosses the line for different people.

 

Its "too far" only in my personal opinion. There are other things that are legal that I dont necessarily agree with, but I also dont see them as things that are a problem big enough for me to bother trying to fight against. We all choose our battles in life. You can stop now with pointing out that things I am saying are opinions, everyone knows they are.

I just personally feel that a repeating crossbow is one step away from what I feel is the spirit of archery hunting is. Now, if they decide to allow those things, I will still disagree with it, but its not a large enough issue to me to fight it. As I said before, as long as its legal, I could care less what the next guy does.

[Doc]

17 hours ago, WNYBuckHunter said:

Its "too far" only in my personal opinion. There are other things that are legal that I dont necessarily agree with, but I also dont see them as things that are a problem big enough for me to bother trying to fight against. We all choose our battles in life. You can stop now with pointing out that things I am saying are opinions, everyone knows they are.

I just personally feel that a repeating crossbow is one step away from what I feel is the spirit of archery hunting is. Now, if they decide to allow those things, I will still disagree with it, but its not a large enough issue to me to fight it. As I said before, as long as its legal, I could care less what the next guy does.

Well it's been an interesting discussion, but I think it all is useless when trying to talk to someone who has opinions but the opinions come with no real convictions.

[Hunter007]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Well it's been an interesting discussion, but I think it all is useless when trying to talk to someone who has opinions but the opinions come with no real convictions.

I don't see why they don't make everyone happy and make 2 or 3 seasons and rotate them every year to see who goes first .

 

 

[WNYBuckHunter]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Well it's been an interesting discussion, but I think it all is useless when trying to talk to someone who has opinions but the opinions come with no real convictions.

LOL, Im supposed to get all up in arms about something that wont affect me, or really anyone else for that matter? You really must have too much time on your hands, I have far more important things to worry about in life than if someone can reload their crossbow faster than I can reload mine. I have plenty of opinions on things that I could care less about making it a priority to do away with. Just because I dont agree with it doesnt mean I have to try and push my opinions and values on everyone else.

Feel free to continute to try and cut me down though, I know its one of the things you seem to enjoy.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Well it's been an interesting discussion, but I think it all is useless when trying to talk to someone who has opinions but the opinions come with no real convictions.

My conviction is to protect the hunting heritage. I hunt. I love to use all the implements that  I have and are available to me to legally use. I would hate to see any of them made illegal to use but if that terrible day did come I would continue with the ones I could. I do really enjoy bow season most of all but would continue with any 

[Robhuntandfish]

1 hour ago, Storm914 said:

I don't see why they don't make everyone happy and make 2 or 3 seasons and rotate them every year to see who goes first .

 

 

That's def not making anyone happy.  Would be a huge mess.  I'm pretty sure everyone would be angry. 

Honestly wish they would just leave the seasons alone.  We have it really good. 

Only exception I  would like to see is xbow allowed for medical reasons in bow season. 

[Hunter007]

4 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

That's def not making anyone happy.  Would be a huge mess.  I'm pretty sure everyone would be angry. 

Honestly wish they would just leave the seasons alone.  We have it really good. 

Only exception I  would like to see is xbow allowed for medical reasons in bow season. 

Why it  just gives  hunters  a excuse to buy more hunting gear and everyone loves that don't they

Edited March 29, 2019 by Storm914

[Five Seasons]

14 minutes ago, Robhuntandfish said:

That's def not making anyone happy.  Would be a huge mess.  I'm pretty sure everyone would be angry. 

Honestly wish they would just leave the seasons alone.  We have it really good. 

Only exception I  would like to see is xbow allowed for medical reasons in bow season. 

my sentiments exactly. And i'd add age to xbows and I'd make the medical permit easy to obtain.

[Nomad]

Side note the pres of NYB is aCapt in Yonkers FD, who pressures those under him to join the organization, mostly non hunters to get their numbers up . Sad really .

How the brothers don’t blow him in is beyond me .

A true pos really .

Edited March 31, 2019 by Stay at home Nomad

[dbHunterNY]

On 3/29/2019 at 8:56 AM, Belo said:

my sentiments exactly. And i'd add age to xbows and I'd make the medical permit easy to obtain.

age would have to be young youth and old (assumed to have limited physical ability). medical permit would have to be easy to get for anyone of any age.

there's was a time a handful of years ago (around 30 years of age) that i couldn't draw any of my bows back on their lowest settings to save my life. a kid decided to run into me with his dad's SUV with a big ol brush guard on the front. it would've been nice at have a crossbow, to get out during the regular early bow season.

[Five Seasons]

38 minutes ago, dbHunterNY said:

age would have to be young youth and old (assumed to have limited physical ability). medical permit would have to be easy to get for anyone of any age.

there's was a time a handful of years ago (around 30 years of age) that i couldn't draw any of my bows back on their lowest settings to save my life. a kid decided to run into me with his dad's SUV with a big ol brush guard on the front. it would've been nice at have a crossbow, to get out during the regular early bow season.

i'm undecided on the youth part. I see the pros of getting youth in the woods and the cons on starting them on the easier path. idk.

[dbHunterNY]

1 hour ago, Belo said:

i'm undecided on the youth part. I see the pros of getting youth in the woods and the cons on starting them on the easier path. idk.

at 12 yrs old i guarantee you she won't be able to pull back a legal 35 lbs easily enough to be what basic archery lessons preach is not over bowed. even if she could 35 lbs it isn't very effective much past 15 yards or so given what arrow weight would be or drop with a heavier arrow. some boys struggle too despite they can get it back. telling a kid yea you can hunt and then making it really hard for them isn't exactly going to make them want to continue.

[dbHunterNY]

the fundamentals of harvesting a deer like shot placement and tracking are exactly the same with a crossbow as they are with a vertical bow. so they're still going to have to learn archery skills. naturally i think they'll want to eventually use what others are using so they won't think a vertical bow is pointless.