Banned from local Facebook group

[virgil]

I didn't mean to imply that most heroin users started with a legitimate prescription- although a great many do.  There are many, many others who start out using other illegal drugs and wind up turning to heroin for the powerful high, low cost, and availability. 

[moog5050]

I am no expert on the subject of opioid addiction, but I do meet many that are addicted through a ministry where we provide meals (at our own expense) and prayer to those in need.  We go to areas where many addicts buy and use these drugs.  I have seen some that cleaned up and beat the addiction and are productive, but more often I see the same people year after year unable to escape the addiction.  And when I don't see some of them, my first thought is whether they are still alive.  Its a sad situation and speaking with them, most addicts would love to stop but simply can't.  Easy to say toughen up or its your fault, but that really doesn't help solve the problem.  And I don't think most that I know became addicted from legal scripts - not that some don't.  They were already involved in a drug culture for whatever reason (many come from really difficult backgrounds) and the opioids on the street are simply the cheapest high, especially with all the Chinese fentanol (sp?) mixed in.

These addicts are people and compassion for their plight (regardless of fault) is a good thing in my opinion regardless of how they came to be in the horrible situation.

I will say that 15 years ago, I had a similar opinion to Rattler - their fault and I shouldn't burdened with their bad choices.  My opinion has changed through regular interaction with this part of society.

[Rattler]

Moog, I work as a rehabilitation counselor for a large NY not for profit.  Years of experience in this filed has taught me these addicts deserve compassion, but they are not blameless.  Any type of program directed at these folks has to be coldly analyzed on a cost/benefit analysis.  If taxpayers are being asked to fund these things, they have a right to demand they be effective.

Giving free NARCAN to addicts is not effective by any measure of the imagination.  It keeps them alive without any requirements on their part to do anything positive towards rehabilitating themselves.  IMHO, it encourages more heroin use by addicts who now have less fear it will kill them.  At the very least they should be under a court's direction to pay the cost of the NARCAN that saved their life.  If they don't have the money, they can do community service.  Nothing handed to someone ever has any value to that person.  Only things you earn have value to you.

Part of curing their addiction is admitting they are at fault and only they can cure their addiction.  They must reject the victim mentality and adopt a winner's mentality.  They must be made to understand the task is tough, but the rewards are immense.  As long as society tells them they are poor victims of somebody else's malice, they will wallow in self pity and look for more heroin to escape reality.  They use the victim mantra as an excuse for their behavior.  The state's coddling of addicts and the move to give them free NARCAN is making rehabilitating these folks much harder, if not impossible.

Life is tough for everyone, but it's a lot tougher for those who make poor choices.

[Hunter007]

3 minutes ago, Rattler said:

Moog, I work as a rehabilitation counselor for a large NY not for profit.  Years of experience in this filed has taught me these addicts deserve compassion, but they are not blameless.  Any type of program directed at these folks has to be coldly analyzed on a cost/benefit analysis.  If taxpayers are being asked to fund these things, they have a right to demand they be effective.

Giving free NARCAN to addicts is not effective by any measure of the imagination.  It keeps them alive without any requirements on their part to do anything positive towards rehabilitating themselves.  IMHO, it encourages more heroin use by addicts who now have less fear it will kill them.  At the very least they should be under a court's direction to pay the cost of the NARCAN that saved their life.  If they don't have the money, they can do community service.  Nothing handed to someone ever has any value to that person.  Only things you earn have value to you.

Part of curing their addiction is admitting they are at fault and only they can cure their addiction.  They must reject the victim mentality and adopt a winner's mentality.  They must be made to understand the task is tough, but the rewards are immense.  As long as society tells them they are poor victims of somebody else's malice, they will wallow in self pity and look for more heroin to escape reality.  They use the victim mantra as an excuse for their behavior.  The state's coddling of addicts and the move to give them free NARCAN is making rehabilitating these folks much harder, if not impossible.

Life is tough for everyone, but it's a lot tougher for those who make poor choices.

Since you have seen many of them are most of them big smokers and drinkers by any chance?  if they are looks like it's more of a pattern of not taking care of themselves going on there , going from one high to a better high , then just someone helplessly becoming a victim . Is  that part of why you think that they are not victims, rattler? 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nomad]

I’ve given narcan countless times, we dont ask questions or judge , shot, stabbed, hit by car, od, or 92 y/o gramps  with heart history , if we can bring you back we will . 

I wasn’t there to solve societies problems, just help the guy lying on the ground .

And yes, I’ve held options very similar to many posting .

oh and I’ve never had a FB account, it seems largely narcissistic at best , and full of false info , ( I do look at stuff from time to time on Mrs. Nomads ) 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Stay at home Nomad

[Rattler]

Hawk, most are smokers but not too many are big drinkers.  It seems they prefer to spend their money on drugs instead of booze.  I find few of them are not intelligent and they make informed decisions.  They just make the wrong ones.  That's why I believe it's about choices. Many also admit they're not victims when you counsel them, but they willingly accept the victim status when it benefits them in society.

[Five Seasons]

1 hour ago, steve863 said:

I doubt such a statistic would be available, but I would really like to see something that would prove your statement to be true.  What you say is what the media and everyone else wants us to believe, but I myself have a hard time accepting this as fact that most people who has never taken drugs in their life would go on to resort to street drugs after being given some pain killers by a doctor or after a hospital stay.  Yes, I could definitely see the person with past drug use get themselves into such a hole, but a person with a brain, common sense and some self-control I have a much harder time seeing going down this path.

there are studies out there. Generally the rich can still afford or know a doctor who can prescribe the pills. The middle class and below cannot afford illegal pain killers and turn to heroin. This is pretty well known path.

[Five Seasons]

50 minutes ago, Rattler said:

has taught me these addicts deserve compassion, but they are not blameless. 

i thought this was understood with my posts, but maybe not so I'll state it. Addicts are not blameless. They carry the most responsibility for sure. But the topic was on sensitivity towards them and that's where I felt the need to mention that they're not all devil worshiping drug fiends. And that society has done its fair share in creating the situation we are now in.

[cbyzerman]

5 hours ago, Rattler said:

Belo, don't look know but you're making my point for me.  It's a choice.  To avoid pain, they choose addictive pain killers.  If used properly they don't become addicts.  If not, which is a choice, they do.

I never said all doctors are good.  I understand some are pushers.  Patients have a responsibility to themselves to avoid those doctors.  Some seek them out.

The ignorance is on the side professing this is not true.  They're selling victimhood, and from personal experience with this issue I can wholeheartedly say, nobody with an analytical, factual mind is buying it.

I'm not surprised a Marine would make the right choice.

That's not to say people don't need help.  It's saying society is not responsible for paying for it.

Yea Marines would never make a bad choice.........  My buddy was one......  Your statements are completely ridiculous........... 

[Rattler]

5 hours ago, cbyzerman said:

Yea Marines would never make a bad choice.........  My buddy was one......  Your statements are completely ridiculous........... 

Seems you and your friends are the exception to the rule.  I'm not surprised by that either.  Do you have anything resembling credibility to add to the debate, or are you retreating with your ad hominem attacks?

[moog5050]

9 hours ago, Rattler said:

Moog, I work as a rehabilitation counselor for a large NY not for profit.  Years of experience in this filed has taught me these addicts deserve compassion, but they are not blameless.  Any type of program directed at these folks has to be coldly analyzed on a cost/benefit analysis.  If taxpayers are being asked to fund these things, they have a right to demand they be effective.

Giving free NARCAN to addicts is not effective by any measure of the imagination.  It keeps them alive without any requirements on their part to do anything positive towards rehabilitating themselves.  IMHO, it encourages more heroin use by addicts who now have less fear it will kill them.  At the very least they should be under a court's direction to pay the cost of the NARCAN that saved their life.  If they don't have the money, they can do community service.  Nothing handed to someone ever has any value to that person.  Only things you earn have value to you.

Part of curing their addiction is admitting they are at fault and only they can cure their addiction.  They must reject the victim mentality and adopt a winner's mentality.  They must be made to understand the task is tough, but the rewards are immense.  As long as society tells them they are poor victims of somebody else's malice, they will wallow in self pity and look for more heroin to escape reality.  They use the victim mantra as an excuse for their behavior.  The state's coddling of addicts and the move to give them free NARCAN is making rehabilitating these folks much harder, if not impossible.

Life is tough for everyone, but it's a lot tougher for those who make poor choices.

I don’t disagree that bad choices lead to tough times nor that addicts may very well have caused their own problems or exacerbated them.  That said, if someone’s life is on the line, I will happily shell out my own money to save them regardless of whether they are to blame.  

I also don’t disagree that whatever public funds are used should be used to help curb the epidemic in the most responsible manner possible (don’t claim to know what that is) but withholding a life saving treatment due to cost would run contrary to my beliefs.  I have no problem charging them although it’s probably futile. 

[Rattler]

People with mortal medical problems, that are no fault of their own, have medicine withheld from them all the time due to cost.  To me, that's discrimination.  Not sure why people want to save addicts lives and let responsible folks die.  Probably because they're not members of the protected victim class.

I also don't call it an "epidemic" as that implies it's a disease, which it isn't.  It's a crisis.  A self inflicted one.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Rattler

[moog5050]

2 minutes ago, Rattler said:

Not sure why people want to save addicts lives and let responsible folks die.

I assume this is not a reference to my post because nowhere did I say that.  I said withholding life saving treatment due to cost is inconsistent with my beliefs.   Pretty sure no one suggested that “responsible folks” should die nor should addicts to save the $20 cost of Narcan. 

[Rattler]

No offense meant to you there Moog.  Just a comment on the general attitude in society.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Rattler

[Rattler]

NARCAN was used to save his life, but couldn't help the 3 people he killed while driving on heroin.

https://www.nj.com/passaic-county/2019/06/nj-man-accused-of-killing-3-in-crash-while-high-didnt-know-heroin-was-laced-with-fentanyl-lawyer-says.html?utm_campaign=njcom_sf&utm_source=facebook&utm_content=nj_facebook_njcom&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2Qe31dVRsWtp9oF_QQKBJNTZ_8zLUDjPcg1YuYNsXQrHzzo5J1RTd4ejg

[ADK Native]

Overdose Suspect Is Revived By Narcan and Fatally Shoots Firefighter

https://lawofficer.com/news/video-overdose-suspect-is-revived-by-narcan-and-fatally-shoots-firefighter/

Addicts can be very dangerous by becoming violent and being contaminated with Fentanyl.  Anyone who chooses to treat them are at risk for injury or death.

It is important to remember that the major root cause of gun violence is traced to the distribution, sale and use of illegal drugs.  If the government had a real war on drugs distributors and sellers would be incarcerated for life and addicts would be sent to rehabilitation camps.  Gun control advocates ignore this fact, but use high numbers of gun violence by these criminals to support their call for more restrictions and prohibitions on firearm ownership.

[Redneric]

The west branch is hands down better than the BK just Ask its newest fan! I think we need to get together and I’ll show you


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I agree I’ve fished with him and it is been better to us


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[Redneric]

I figured you guys would find this funny. I got banned from my local community Facebook page today. Someone posted a article about giving free Narcan to Herion addicts. I commented and say that I think that’s insane. If you are dumb enough to do Heroin that you deserve your fate.
 
Apparently that is rude, insensitive and a offense to my local community.
 
 
 
 
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Chefhunter86
You are a very mean insensitive person that’s very rude how dare you meany weenie I’m offended lmao, your a nut I’m not surprised lmao


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[crappyice]

I agree I’ve fished with him and it is been better to us

 

 

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Welcome back...now keep your bogus brainwashed opinions to yourself!

BK Lives Matter!!!

 

 

 

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[Redneric]

Welcome back...now keep your bogus brainwashed opinions to yourself!
BK Lives Matter!!!
 
 
 
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Thanks yeah I’ve been really busy not much time going on here but hey what can I say just stating what I know ha


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[Chef]

Welcome back...now keep your bogus brainwashed opinions to yourself!
BK Lives Matter!!!
 
 
 
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Don’t welcome him back, he sucks... I think we should have a river off. 3 of us fish the BK and 3 the west branch we see who catches more and larger fish


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[ATbuckhunter]

2 hours ago, Thejerkman said:

Don’t welcome him back, he sucks... I think we should have a river off. 3 of us fish the BK and 3 the west branch we see who catches more and larger fish


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Im a hinderance on what ever river im at lol, but this sounds like a great idea

[crappyice]

Im a hinderance on what ever river im at lol, but this sounds like a great idea

We’ll take Biz...him with a fly rod would be like him shooting a Hoyt from a tree stand


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[ATbuckhunter]

1 minute ago, crappyice said:

We’ll take Biz...him with a fly rod would be like him shooting a Hoyt from a tree stand


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Haha sounds like a plan