School me on tractors

[G-Man]

14 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

So you will agree, as this post was started, that BigVal should find a hydro ?

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No , he was looking used, the difference between a hydro like a 9 n and a modern. Kioti,kubota,massy,long is like a spaceship to a bike. He just need live PTO which is on nearly.all tractors since the 60s.  There are many options available in used that would serve his purpose at a fraction of the price of new and in fact can get a better tractor more hp, and implements then he could ever buy or afford new..  imo the debate is which older tractors fit his needs and allow room for expansion of what he would.like to do with it.  As his own words state. but what is the best option for an older rig? 

Edited July 22, 2019 by G-Man

[airedale]

Pictured below is my Classic Power King 3 speed gear Tractor, just rear wheel drive and the engine is a 14 HP Kohler single cylinder. In the background there is a dump trailer that this Power King easily tows when full of dirt. I also have a 25 HP Cub Cadet Hydro mowing Tractor and a Polaris 40 something HP  4 wheel drive ATV, Neither of those two machines can move that trailer very well when it is full but the Power King has no problem. It is all about gearing, weight and traction.

Al

[TreeGuy]

I think you meant to say it's more like a bike to a spaceship. Buy once, cry once.

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[TreeGuy]

Pictured below is my Classic Power King 3 speed gear Tractor, just rear wheel drive and the engine is a 14 HP Kohler single cylinder. In the background there is a dump trailer that this Power King easily tows when full of dirt. I also have a 25 HP Cub Cadet Hydro mowing Tractor and a Polaris 40 something HP  4 wheel drive ATV, Neither of those two machines can move that trailer very well when it is full but the Power King has no problem. It is all about gearing, weight and traction.
Al

Agree totally. Gearing. Like how a 2hp steamer can pull the sled better than a 1000hp Cummins in a Dodge truck. But, I know a 25hp hydro b series kubota that could pull that cart and also accomplish 10000 other tasks as well.

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[G-Man]

If you want to debate new "used" tractors  my  advice would be look at kioti , more gpm on hydraulic pump a 30 hp tractor can lift a ton on loader to do that with a kubota you need to go to 50 hp, same with massy, long,John deer, Belarus, ect. You get most bang for your buck with a kioti at this time. But he said older machine so that is what I focused on a 2 to4 k used tractor would be geared vs the unreliable hydro of the day

[TreeGuy]

He never mentioned price range. I wanted to give my experiences of how many tractors I went through before I was happy. I started with a jubilee. It ran great, but that was about it. Couldn't plow the driveway, couldn't skid logs, and was a complete waste of time. When I had to get the neighbor with his tractor to come pull me out (half the HP, but hydro and 4x4) it was the last straw. 4x4 shuttle, which was a tricky beast to finesse with loader work turned to a gear tractor, which did the tasks just no where near as efficient as my hydro. If I could give advise to any "estate owner" it would be to go big or go home and relate it to all my experiences in hopes I help him out with his purchase instead of confusing things into a pi$$ing match about FARM tractors, pulling rigs, Nascar and spaceships

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[TreeGuy]

A perfect example of the need for a 4x4 for woods work. Heavy snow and ground thawed on a path I had taken the day before, but thankfully my neighbor with his 25hp sub compact was able to pull me out.

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[airedale]

35 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

But, I know a 25hp hydro b series kubota that could pull that cart and also accomplish 10000 other tasks as well.

I owned a B 7500 Kubota Hydro and it did pull that dump trailer it was a great tractor that I liked a lot but I needed something bigger and purchased the TYM geared shuttle Tractor in the background, which has been stellar performer and trouble free for the ten years I have owned it.

Edited July 22, 2019 by airedale

[TreeGuy]

I owned a B 7500 Kubota Hydro and it did pull that dump trailer it was a great tractor that I liked a lot but I needed something bigger and purchased the TYM geared shuttle Tractor in the background, it has been stellar performer and trouble free for the ten years I have owned it.

Which for the purpose of this thread (pi$$ match) would be considered a lawn mower and an old non reliable hydro machine. I'd bet that tractor is still running strong and pulling loads up and down hills.

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[airedale]

8 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

I'd bet that tractor is still running strong and pulling loads up and down hills.

All I can say is I never used the Kubota for mowing, it did a lot of loader work and towing, it was reliable.  My step son now owns it and other than a few minor repairs it is running strong he uses it on his farm on a regular basis.

Edited July 22, 2019 by airedale

[philoshop]

27 minutes ago, airedale said:

I owned a B 7500 Kubota Hydro and it did pull that dump trailer it was a great tractor that I liked a lot but I needed something bigger and purchased the TYM geared shuttle Tractor in the background, it has been stellar performer and trouble free for the ten years I have owned it.

I absolutely love my 7500. I've never given a single thought to anything else. It's an amazingly tough little tractor.

[BizCT]

Did someone say PTO? I got Paid Time Off days to burn!


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[TreeGuy]

Just watched another lawn mower video. 23hp Kubota. Rated to lift 509#. Lifted 680# amazing little machines !

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[stubborn1VT]

Our town road foreman tested every common tractor made in the 30-50HP range for brushhogging, mowing roadsides, running a box scraper and moving material with the bucket.  He told me that the hydros were the most nutless machines he ever ran and bought a shuttle shift Kubota.

[TreeGuy]

Speaking of nutless dogs. This is our annual haunted hayride pic. 26 people including kids, on a double axle heavy duty trailer, through the mud, up and down a couple steep inclines and all around the property.... Never a grunt from my lawn mower. If estimate I'm pulling about 4000#

 

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[stubborn1VT]

I think the lawnmower comment applies to machines considerably smaller than 40HP.  I should hope a 40HP 4-wheel drive could pull 2 ton!  I pull about 6500lbs with my little 32HP gear tractor.  That's a dump trailer and green firewood, hills and mud included.

[TreeGuy]

I think the lawnmower comment applies to machines considerably smaller than 40HP.  I should hope a 40HP 4-wheel drive could pull 2 ton!  I pull about 6500lbs with my little 32HP gear tractor.  That's a dump trailer and green firewood, hills and mud included.

My 40hp can accept a mid mount mower, therefore it's classified as a mower, or so I hear.

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[stubborn1VT]

1 minute ago, TreeGuy said:

My 40hp can accept a mid mount mower, therefore it's classified as a mower, or so I hear.

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When you're right, you're right! 

(Not really, but the mid-mount mower is pretty goofy on a machine that size)

[BigVal]

To clarify, I had planned on a gear drive because I planned on older, more affordable for now. Tree guy got me thinking with hydro so I like to hear all pros and cons. 

I plan to drive a hydro as I never have other than stand on mowers (lol)

Chances are high that I will end up with a 70s Ford or similar because they are reasonable and very capable. That's not to say I wont buy newer if the hydro really is much better for me. 

Money wise the issue is not that I "cant afford" a brand new tractor but more so that it's the responsible move to go towards a used, older tractor for the time being. I am enjoying the thread and learning alot for sure. First hand experience from some members is very useful, tree guy, wolc, and gman along with some others have lots to go on which is nice. Obviously the tests will be the final say. 

[Doewhacker]

5 hours ago, Jeremy K said:

I just pasted a response from the marketing manager of peterbilt ,the same article showed them training people on simulators with automatic transmission. What would he know.

I’ll be sure to let the guy that does all of the training on the east coast know he, and all of corporate that are in charge of buying a fleet of tractors for Fed Ex are wrong because you copy and pasted what a marketer said on a hunting site. I’m sure they’ll agree. 

[G-Man]

27 minutes ago, BigVal said:

To clarify, I had planned on a gear drive because I planned on older, more affordable for now. Tree guy got me thinking with hydro so I like to hear all pros and cons. 

I plan to drive a hydro as I never have other than stand on mowers (lol)

Chances are high that I will end up with a 70s Ford or similar because they are reasonable and very capable. That's not to say I wont buy newer if the hydro really is much better for me. 

Money wise the issue is not that I "cant afford" a brand new tractor but more so that it's the responsible move to go towards a used, older tractor for the time being. I am enjoying the thread and learning alot for sure. First hand experience from some members is very useful, tree guy, wolc, and gman along with some others have lots to go on which is nice. Obviously the tests will be the final say. 

I only.gave price range as your original question asked what was available in older tractors as you were remodeling.  Never meant what you can or cant afford, but 4wd is not a necessity  you asked about loader and older.machines.  as. I said earlier  if you want new used I'd compare gpm on pumps and lift capacity.. I like the fact I can carry a ton of wood out in a bucket ( a cord is about 1 ton) with a 35 hp tractor.  I did a lot of shopping and comparing before I went with a kioti, I still own a lawnmower b7200d kubota that is a deer retrieval machine and runs a 4 ft brush hog , my large tractor is a 58 Oliver 1800 gas that had motor rebuilt in 86. Close to 80 hp and pulls a 5 bottom plow and skids thousands of pounds of logs  at a time when I need it to.  It is my large.plot machine and moving 6 to 12 ft of dirt at a time saves time,one thing I am.always shot on. My property drops 900 ft over a 1/4 mile serious control is needed and constant speed shuttle shifting and gears are only way to accomplish that low 1 is crawling. But will move mountains . Spraying fields or.my.lawn also requires set speed for applications rate. Again gears are known speeds at rpm.  

[Jeremy K]

16 minutes ago, Doewhacker said:

I’ll be sure to let the guy that does all of the training on the east coast know he, and all of corporate that are in charge of buying a fleet of tractors for Fed Ex are wrong because you copy and pasted what a marketer said on a hunting site. I’m sure they’ll agree. 

You mean the marketer for the company who builds trucks ? I'm sure he would have no knowledge of current trends . Im positive that you have forgoten more about hauling then i will ever know, I was just responding to the part about companies switching to automatics because people are not driving manual transmisions anymore . The guy from peterbilt said in the interview that is the biggest reason for the switch is the trainability of new drivers.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Jeremy K

[TreeGuy]

I only.gave price range as your original question asked what was available in older tractors as you were remodeling.  Never meant what you can or cant afford, but 4wd is not a necessity  you asked about loader and older.machines.  as. I said earlier  if you want new used I'd compare gpm on pumps and lift capacity.. I like the fact I can carry a ton of wood out in a bucket ( a cord is about 1 ton) with a 35 hp tractor.  I did a lot of shopping and comparing before I went with a kioti, I still own a lawnmower b7200d kubota that is a deer retrieval machine and runs a 4 ft brush hog , my large tractor is a 58 Oliver 1800 gas that had motor rebuilt in 86. Close to 80 hp and pulls a 5 bottom plow and skids thousands of pounds of logs  at a time when I need it to.  It is my large.plot machine and moving 6 to 12 ft of dirt at a time saves time,one thing I am.always shot on. My property drops 900 ft over a 1/4 mile serious control is needed and constant speed shuttle shifting and gears are only way to accomplish that low 1 is crawling. But will move mountains . Spraying fields or.my.lawn also requires set speed for applications rate. Again gears are known speeds at rpm.  

FYI. Oliver 1800 is rated 62hp at the drawbar..... You say it's 80hp. That means there's 25% power loss somewhere. Is it a hydro ???

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[TreeGuy]

Another fantastic show of how skidding up a hill absolutely beats on a geared tractor. With a hydro, you can fine tune power and speed so you can use your front end weight and juuuuuust keep those front tires off the ground vs popping the clutch and slamming the tractor up and down.

 

I know this because I have done it many, many times. It's actually pretty fun to be able to feather the go pedal and keep moving up the hill without worry of flipping. Enjoy

 

 https://youtu.be/hUdIONsHgy0

 

 

 

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[G-Man]

37 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

FYI. Oliver 1800 is rated 62hp at the drawbar..... You say it's 80hp. That means there's 25% power loss somewhere. Is it a hydro ???

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Motor rebuilt pushing 80 hp reread..