Where has all the access to good hunting land gone?

[CNY_Archer]

    I have been hunting for over 40 years in the CNY area. Over the years,  as we all know, access to private land is getting more and more  difficult to find and even hang onto for our beloved hunting tradition.  Gone are the days in our youth when it was sometimes a challenge to  locate a specific deer stand among all the hundreds and hundreds of  acres we had access to.

 

  More recently, leases have been tried by myself on land that turned out  to be not very productive. A few hundred bucks per year just for the  sake of having some land to hunt on. One would assume that the leased  land would be productive. Not so.

 

  I have found out that not all land is suitable for hunting. These last  couple of years, my access to local hunting property has been reduced to  15 acres with other hunters also on the property. I do not bow hunt or  shotgun hunt it as it is too small for all the hunters on the property.  Other hunters currently have permission from the owner to hunt the  property also. During muzzle season in December when almost nobody hunts  in the cold, I bundle up in my ladder stand and I enjoy hunting over a  small cut bean field where the deer come out to feed.     

 

  What kind of a hunter am I?  I am a responsible father with a 16 year old  son. I would very much desire to continue and pass along the hunting  tradition and all the wonderful hunting stories to my teen age son.

 

  Like a typical teenager, it is a real challenge for him sometimes with  his busy schedule. School, work, sports, job, boy scouts, (he is working  on his Boy Scout Eagle project now), (NO girlfriend)  all occupy his  time. He very much enjoys hunting and getting out into the outdoors. And  I sure do enjoy his company.

 

  If you are a land owner and would be willing to offer us the use of some  of your property, we would be more than willing and be able to assist  you in farm chores or small projects.  Like the days in my youth with my  Dad, friendships with farmers were established and enjoyed for many  years. I believe in the same principles as my Dad did. 

 

  If you have a leased property or belong to a lease on good deer hunting  property and are looking for some new, responsible members, let's get  together and discuss the details. I may be very interested in what you  have to say.

[Culvercreek hunt club]

I am not sureif there is any near you but cooperative hunting land can be a level in between hunting state land and having lone private access. I have found properties in the Mohak valley and most of them are some sort of farm so the hunting is pretty good. depending on the property and the owner some get more pressure than others. But access is controlled by permission slips only. Outside of opening weekend I have had very good luck on them. Somethng you might consider. I found the ones I got permission on by just driving.....driving.....then driving some more.    I would shoot you where the ones are down there but that may be a bit of a hike for you

[Doc]

To answer your initial question about where all the good hunting land has gone, I can only say that it is buried under the over-burdening population that has accumulated in the rural areas of the state.

A little short observation that I have made over the years: I live in a rural area and have all of my life. Back in the 50's when I was just  a sprout, I remember that on the rare event that I saw a car go down the road, I would kind of stare after it trying to recognize the driver because most likely it was somebody you knew. Today, you can stand there quite a while waiting for a break in the traffic before you can cross. Where are all these new people going? They're going home ..... away from the city and toward points south that used to all be large farms and acres of unbroken hunting land that most of the farmers left wide open for anyone who wanted to hunt there. Now all these big tracts of land are busted up into 5-20 acre parcels with a house plunked in the middle and the perimeter rimmed with posted signs.

[13BVET]

I can relate to this, but, in this area, it was development that has done a lot of damage to the hunting opportunities. That's why I'm still seriously considering giving it up. I have this funny thing about paying out hard earned money for no opportunity. The question for you, is how far you're willing to travel. Or, you might consider joining a gun club that has property. Ironically, I did that, and our club lost the property, so now we have nothing. Of course, we lost it to development. Go figure.

[13BVET]

Doc, I agree 100%.

[13BVET]

I'm sorry. Except for one minor detail. Down here, they don't leave any woods at all, if they can help it. We have more deer out on the roads, than anywhere else (except, of course, behind houses).

[Doc]

I have resorted to hunting state land, and have become quite adept at hunting in a crowd. It's not the best solution, but so far I am still able to make it occasionally work and still able to enjoy a reasonable hunt. Sure I do occasionally come off the hill spittin' mad because an entire evening's hunt was ruined by some poor small-game hunter that just happened to stumble across my stand at a very inopportune time. Or had some other bowhunter mogging across in front of my stand dripping sweat and thrashing every bit of brush and branches in the area. But I do get over it and hope the following day might go uninterrupted. Of course when gun season comes around, I use all these extra people to move deer for me and I have become quite good at patterning hunter movements for my advantage. It's nothing like the quality of hunt that I used to have years ago, but I have begrudgingly adapted, and it will keep me hunting for the few more years that I have left.

[covert]

We hunt State land too but we go deep in the woods where no one else has the gumption to go.  We don't see many deer, but I don't think I've seen more than two people outside our group in the 17 years I've been going.

[wdswtr]

I understand what you are saying and you can hunt almost 4 million acres of state land in NY.  From what I personally have seen over the years is that after opening weekend the pressure is minimal.  You just cant stop on the side of the road and walk in a few hundred yards you need to get in there away from these guys.  State land has been just as produtive if not more so for me and everyone in hunting camp with me.  Yes I own land and have access to a fair amount but the state land produce just as well for me my land that borders it.  You just need to put in some time and do some scouting to be produtive if you arent able or willing to do that then I wish you the best.

[CNY_Archer]

I belonged to a 2000 acre lease with 7 hunters a few years back. 15 minutes from my house. I shot a nice 6 pointer and I thought "WOW! I can hunt here for lots of years!" yeah, right....

Last year, 14 Amish families from Ohio moved here to central NY and bought the entire property! They turned the hunting camp into a livable house.

I live near Utica, a few miles west. Last year, I joined a club with land south of Syracuse near Fabius. 192 acres of open hard wood on a 45 degree steep side of a hill. No farm crops and did not see hardly any deer or sign. I left at 9 AM opening day of deer season in November and went home.

The sad thing is this... I am getting older obviously and as time slips away, so does having access to good hunting ground. Very recently I got access to 20 acres of bow only for deer and turkey north of Utica.The owner calss them 2 and 4 legged rats! Soon, I will put out a few cameras and see what's there.

I like small plots of land if they have lots of deer sign. Come late October when the  deer are more active, I will be on this 20 acre plot.

I would still prefer hooking up with some other hunters and join an existing club if possible. But until then, it looks like I will hunt the three 15-30 acre plots I have access to.   

[Nomad]

Around me in 8h a good chunk has gone to leases, and more folks ''doing qdm" and keeping all others now off the land. I know farms that in the past had 15 or more guys hunt it,now they'er leased to 4 or 5 guys .

So now the 15 have to lock up some land of their own....

One guy bought the rights to land next to his even though he will not hunt it, he just wants to keep others far away from his land and "his" deer.

Welcome to todays deer hunting .

[Doc]

Around me in 8h a good chunk has gone to leases, and more folks ''doing qdm" and keeping all others now off the land. I know farms that in the past had 15 or more guys hunt it,now they'er leased to 4 or 5 guys .

So now the 15 have to lock up some land of their own....

One guy bought the rights to land next to his even though he will not hunt it, he just wants to keep others far away from his land and "his" deer.

Welcome to todays deer hunting .

Yes, the leasing thing is continuing to have a rapidly growing impact on hunting access. I also believe that the QDM craze has caused much of the formerly accessible land to be cut off. I suppose there wouldn't be a whole lot of point to the QDM costs and efforts if the hunting pressure was not rigidly controlled. So, there are some relatively new and growing pressures being put on the continued availability of hunting land.

[nyantler]

To answer your initial question about where all the good hunting land has gone, I can only say that it is buried under the over-burdening population that has accumulated in the rural areas of the state.

A little short observation that I have made over the years: I live in a rural area and have all of my life. Back in the 50's when I was just  a sprout, I remember that on the rare event that I saw a car go down the road, I would kind of stare after it trying to recognize the driver because most likely it was somebody you knew. Today, you can stand there quite a while waiting for a break in the traffic before you can cross. Where are all these new people going? They're going home ..... away from the city and toward points south that used to all be large farms and acres of unbroken hunting land that most of the farmers left wide open for anyone who wanted to hunt there. Now all these big tracts of land are busted up into 5-20 acre parcels with a house plunked in the middle and the perimeter rimmed with posted signs.

I think you hit the nail on the head... developement has been the worst enemy to hunters when it comes to available hunting land. The cul-de-sac that a lot of hunters live on today use to be good hunting land less than 30-40 yers ago in some cases.

[Nomad]

no doubt developement has played a roll in it, but I'm not sure if its as big as we think.

Heres why I say that . I live in Webster a inner ring suburb of Rochester, Webster over the last several years has been the fastest growing suburb around by far. But last I read was still only 30% developed, today I guess thats still less then 40 % .

Now go to where Doc lives, or where I THINK he lives,the Naples/ Bristol area. Sure there has been some building of homes but that area is still 80-90% undeveloped at least.  Now add in todays 4 dollar gas i think moving that far from the city will appeal to even less folks .

Where I hunt and own 116 acres , town of Canandaigua just north of 5 & 20 I have lost farms due to leases but zero to housing, and this is closer to the city then Doc's area. Are some tracks a couple miles away ? Yes but no closer yet. I would love them to get closer, renting to the farmer pays the taxes but a developer well that would get me a home on Canandaigua Lake ! But no takers yet .

[Doc]

When I say development, I am not necessarily talking about rows and rows of tract housing. All it takes to eliminate a former hunting area is for someone to come in and buy up 30 or 40 acres and post it.

I have lived within 8 miles of the same area for almost all my life. Over those 67 years, I have seen massive amounts of land taken out of hunting access just due to single residences popping up and being locked up with posted signs. I have seen huge functioning farms chopped up and sold off with the hunting access being chopped up along with it. That is development too, and probably is having far more impact than housing tracts. Take a drive and look at the number of houses that are 50 years old or less and then realize that where they are sitting used to be huge farms and all of them open to hunting.

I remember back when I was much younger how I used to laugh whenever someone talked about "over-population". I'm not laughing anymore since I have gotten a bigger, long term picture of what that sort of thing really looks like. When I was a kid, I could walk all day long in any direction and never encounter a posted sign. Now other than state land, I can't walk anywhere and not find a line of signs. I'm not blaming anybody, but I only mention this to illustrate just how much land has been locked up from hunters. It's such a slow phenomenon that we never notice because we grow up with it happening. But stop once and take a close look around and all of a sudden it hits you.

Development is a real factor in the loss of hunting access and a pretty darn big one.

[nyantler]

developing 30% of a given area could be the best part of the entire acreage in terms of deer habitat.. so just because the percentage is small doesn't mean the impact isn't great

[Cabin Fever]

CNY Archer - Is purchasing one of those 15-20 acre plots an option? I have a 16 year old and a 12 year old, so I know how you feel wanting to have a place for you and your son to hunt.

From the ages of 20-30, I wasn't able to hunt with my father, because where ever I had permission to hunt, I couldn't take anyone and where ever he had permission, he couldn't take anyone. It sucked and was sad that something that he raised me to do, that we both loved doing, and we couldn't share it together. One day he told me he was buying ~30 acres, "so we would ALWAYS have a place to hunt together." My father is no longer alive to hunt with me or to enjoy the property with me, but me and my kids are very thankful he made the investment, as we now have a place of our own, where we will always be able to hunt together.

[13BVET]

Down here, in Southern Dutchess, it is definitely the development. You wouldn't even recognize the landscape anymore, from all of about 15-20 years ago. The developments have swallowed up so much land, it's sickening. Upon talking to DEC about the lack of hunting area left here, even they acknowledge that it's pretty much a lost cause in this area. Go figure. It's bad-I mean REAL bad!

[sits in trees]

NY state has added hundreds of thousands of acres of state land over the decades, much of it under hunted especially during bow season or late bow/muzzle. i hunt my own land but that even becomes boring after awhile, thats when i head to state forest land where i can wander for days and never be on the same trail twice.

[Doc]

developing 30% of a given area could be the best part of the entire acreage in terms of deer habitat.. so just because the percentage is small doesn't mean the impact isn't great

Actually, considering that up until the 40's and 50's, agriculture represented virtually all of the rural land use, I would say that the percentage of land that has been effected by some form of development is likely a lot higher than 30%, even if that development amounts to no more than putting up posted signs. Almost all of the farms have undergone some form of sub-division, some areas worse than others.

[Jennifer]

The other problem is that even on a large piece of land, developing only 30% of sometimes DOES fragment the land up in a way that may render it nearly useless to hunters. I own some acreage, myself, but there are now houses all along every border and because the way the land is cut, I can only legally discharge a firearm on about 30 square feet in the smack middle of it!! Otherwise I am within 500 feet of a dwelling, and not everyone will grant permission...

[Cabin Fever]

The other problem is that even on a large piece of land, developing only 30% of sometimes DOES fragment the land up in a way that may render it nearly useless to hunters. I own some acreage, myself, but there are now houses all along every border and because the way the land is cut, I can only legally discharge a firearm on about 30 square feet in the smack middle of it!! Otherwise I am within 500 feet of a dwelling, and not everyone will grant permission...

OUCH!! Good point! I never thought about that.

[growalot]

From the ages of 20-30, I wasn't able to hunt with my father, because  where ever I had permission to hunt, I couldn't take anyone and where  ever he had permission, he couldn't take anyone. It sucked and was sad  that something that he raised me to do, that we both loved doing, and we  couldn't share it together. One day he told me he was buying ~30 acres,  "so we would ALWAYS have a place to hunt together." My father is no  longer alive to hunt with me or to enjoy the property with me, but me  and my kids are very thankful he made the investment, as we now have a  place of our own, where we will always be able to hunt together

.

There's a man that could see what the future held ...didn't whine about it just took care of it ...God bless him

[fasteddie]

You have to purchase land in an area that no one wants to build anything on . My oldest son bought 16 acres in Italy Valley . You have to have 4 wheel drive to get up to his property and then it is a scarey ride . His property is adjacent to about 1800 acres of State land .

The only problem is keeping the tresspassers off of the land he has worked on and made nice .

[nyantler]

The other problem is that even on a large piece of land, developing only 30% of sometimes DOES fragment the land up in a way that may render it nearly useless to hunters. I own some acreage, myself, but there are now houses all along every border and because the way the land is cut, I can only legally discharge a firearm on about 30 square feet in the smack middle of it!! Otherwise I am within 500 feet of a dwelling, and not everyone will grant permission...

That was the point I was trying to make...