Mature bucks and scouts

[moog5050]

18 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

I don't think 12 - 20 is so many when it comes to button bucks.  Hopefully another one will hit the freezer this season.  I am making some good headway on the "mature" bucks also, with one on each of the last three seasons.   Passing of the scouts has played a key role in that.

 

I will start with you.  Have any of them that you have taken (lets include 2.5's in there also since I know you have taken a few of those the last few years), showed up less than 5 minutes after a 1.5 came from the same spot ?   If others want to "chime in" on the poll, have at it.   I am going to go out shortly and try for my second antlered buck this year, or a doe / button buck or three,  or at the very least, a tree rat or two.  

My chances of second 3.5 plus are slim for the remainder of this year, because I have just decided to go full "brown-down" from here on out.  It would be selfish of me to hold out for a big one, considering all of the carnage that I have heard of lately with automobile hits.   That includes (4) from the dozen or so folks who I was playing cards with last night.    Us hunters are the primary means of limiting such destruction.  The "passing of young bucks" and eating tags does nothing to help that situation.   It seems to be antlered bucks that are involved in the majority of those hits.   In future seasons, I will continue to pass the young ones in the early season, until my meat supply is secure, but holding out for a trophy now ain't going to happen.       

You love to throw digs wolc and I would be happy to compare the maturity of the bucks I killled in my first 8 years vs your 40years of hunting and the answer is no.   As I said, all solo.   No “scouts” at all.   

[Rattler]

My last 2 eight point bucks were both 2.5 years old.  Both came to me alone and no other deer, buck or doe,  had been seen all morning.

[TreeGuy]

Regardless of the scout rule, does anyone else remember wolc saying that old, rutted up matures taste awful ? Now we are hearing he wants big bucks for more meat..... The tables have turned. Wolc, I'm glad you giving your deer and extra 2 years to live and enjoying more meat for your family.

As I've always said, those that say old deer taste bad - have never ate an old deer.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[moog5050]

13 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

Regardless of the scout rule, does anyone else remember wolc saying that old, rutted up matures taste awful ? Now we are hearing he wants big bucks for more meat..... The tables have turned. Wolc, I'm glad you giving your deer and extra 2 years to live and enjoying more meat for your family.

As I've always said, those that say old deer taste bad - have never ate an old deer.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
 

Drew you have to answer the question.   You shot two older bucks this year.   Did they just have lousy scouts?

[grampy]

Deer can not reason like a human. They can not say " hey!... you go first"!

Yes, they can learn danger comes from humans, and adjust the timing of their movements to the safest part of the day. Or travel in thicker areas, instead of more open ones. But they can NOT reason! They are animals! Simple as that. Anyone saying otherwise, is attaching the "Bambi Syndrome" that implies that wild animals think like us! Just not the way it is in "real nature".

Just for the record, I have seen and killed, a good many mature bucks over the decades. Including this years gun buck aged by DEC at five years old. I can honestly say that never once have I seen them use a "scout". They are by nature one of the most cautious and seclusive animals in the woods. And they become more so with every year they are alive. If not for the instinct to reproduce, most muture bucks, three years and older, would become almost unkillable by most hunters! Myself included!

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Deer can not reason like a human. They can not say " hey!... you go first"!
Yes, they can learn danger comes from humans, and adjust the timing of their movements to the safest part of the day. Or travel in thicker areas, instead of more open ones. But they can NOT reason! They are animals! Simple as that. Anyone saying otherwise, is attaching the "Bambi Syndrome" that implies that wild animals think like us! Just not the way it is in "real nature".
Just for the record, I have seen and killed, a good many mature bucks over the decades. Including this years gun buck aged by DEC at five years old. I can honestly say that never once have I seen them use a "scout". They are by nature one of the most cautious and seclusive animals in the woods. And they become more so with every year they are alive. If not for the instinct to reproduce, most muture bucks, three years and older, would become almost unkillable by most hunters! Myself included!

Perfect!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TreeGuy]

Drew you have to answer the question.   You shot two older bucks this year.   Did they just have lousy scouts?

I mentioned earlier, that I completely disagree with the scout theory as I've never had that experience. But, this year my 8 and 10pt both "mature" were solo.

 

PB with bow. Solo

 

PB with the gun. Solo

 

PB with ML. Solo

 

PB with Xbow. Solo

 

I recall a heavy 8pt in Franklinville that was dogging does in late season gun, and he was behind them, but I equated that to rut behavior, as he was grunting and had his nose to the ground

 

After reviewing the memory book, the only "mature" bucks I've shot have been solo or with a doe.

 

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I will start with you.  Have any of them that you have taken (lets include 2.5's in there also since I know you have taken a few of those the last few years), showed up less than 5 minutes after a 1.5 came from the same spot ?   If others want to "chime in" on the poll, have at it.   I am going to go out shortly and try for my second antlered buck this year, or a doe / button buck or three,  or at the very least, a tree rat or two.  
My chances of second 3.5 plus are slim for the remainder of this year, because I have just decided to go full "brown-down" from here on out.  It would be selfish of me to hold out for a big one, considering all of the carnage that I have heard of lately with automobile hits.   That includes (4) from the dozen or so folks who I was playing cards with last night.    Us hunters are the primary means of limiting such destruction.  The "passing of young bucks" and eating tags does nothing to help that situation.   It seems to be antlered bucks that are involved in the majority of those hits.   In future seasons, I will continue to pass the young ones in the early season, until my meat supply is secure, but holding out for a trophy now ain't going to happen.       

Wolc's perfect target. Get Em,Get Em,Get Em!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TreeGuy]

Wolc's perfect target. Get Em,Get Em,Get Em!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If that midget buck steps out behind ANY other deer, its ded.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[Buckmaster7600]

Deer can not reason like a human. They can not say " hey!... you go first"!
Yes, they can learn danger comes from humans, and adjust the timing of their movements to the safest part of the day. Or travel in thicker areas, instead of more open ones. But they can NOT reason! They are animals! Simple as that. Anyone saying otherwise, is attaching the "Bambi Syndrome" that implies that wild animals think like us! Just not the way it is in "real nature".
Just for the record, I have seen and killed, a good many mature bucks over the decades. Including this years gun buck aged by DEC at five years old. I can honestly say that never once have I seen them use a "scout". They are by nature one of the most cautious and seclusive animals in the woods. And they become more so with every year they are alive. If not for the instinct to reproduce, most muture bucks, three years and older, would become almost unkillable by most hunters! Myself included!

Perfectly said! Hunters often put way more intelligence based behavior on deer than they are capable of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The_Real_TCIII]

Drew you have to answer the question.   You shot two older bucks this year.   Did they just have lousy scouts?

I think their scouts sold them out like Michael Corleones did to him in the old country


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[moog5050]

14 minutes ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

I think their scouts sold them out like Michael Corleones did to him in the old country


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Capable of reason and deceit.  Magnificent creatures!

[chrisw]

I shot a 4.5+ yr old buck this year, I must say that he was never with other deer at all until the rut. He wasn't even with any other deer when I killed him, all alone. I think keeping to themselves and away from other groups of deer helps them stay unnoticed easier. They don't behave like most other deer when they hit that 3.5yrs or older. The other buck on the property which we believe is older than mine seems to be pretty reclusive also, they don't stay alive by following the other deer around, they don't by relying on their own smarts/senses. Deer are wary and use their senses well, therefore being elusive. But I honestly don't think deer are overly intelligent in our sense of the term. That's my opinion anyhow.


Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[wolc123]

8 hours ago, TreeGuy said:

Regardless of the scout rule, does anyone else remember wolc saying that old, rutted up matures taste awful ? Now we are hearing he wants big bucks for more meat..... The tables have turned. Wolc, I'm glad you giving your deer and extra 2 years to live and enjoying more meat for your family.

As I've always said, those that say old deer taste bad - have never ate an old deer.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
 

You got me mixed up with another guy TG.  I can not remember his name right now, but I think he was from Wyoming county.   The only thing I said about older deer is that they need to be aged longer prior to processing and freezing, for the rigor mortis to work out.   A nice feature of the button bucks is that they can  be cut up the day after they are killed.   I have ate very few older than 3.5, but I have never noticed any difference in taste or texture of 1.5 thru 3.5 year bucks, provided they were properly aged prior to processing.     I know you have taken many older bucks and noted that none had scouts.  Maybe it is just something that happens at my place.   It happened twice in the last three years anyhow, and from the same blind. 

Edited December 7, 2019 by wolc123

[TreeGuy]

You got me mixed up with another guy TG.  I can not remember his name right now, but I think he was from Wyoming county.   The only thing I said about older deer is that they need to be aged longer prior to processing and freezing, for the rigor mortis to work out.   A nice feature of the button bucks is that they can  be cut up the day after they are killed.   I have ate very few older than 3.5, but I have never noticed any difference in taste or texture of 1.5 thru 3.5 year bucks, provided they were properly aged prior to processing.     I know you have taken many older bucks and noted that none had scouts.  Maybe it is just something that happens at my place.   It happened twice in the last three years anyhow, and from the same blind. 

And we just named your blind, the "scout blind"

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[goosifer]

3 hours ago, wolc123 said:

You got me mixed up with another guy TG.  I can not remember his name right now, but I think he was from Wyoming county.   The only thing I said about older deer is that they need to be aged longer prior to processing and freezing, for the rigor mortis to work out.   A nice feature of the button bucks is that they can  be cut up the day after they are killed.   I have ate very few older than 3.5, but I have never noticed any difference in taste or texture of 1.5 thru 3.5 year bucks, provided they were properly aged prior to processing.     I know you have taken many older bucks and noted that none had scouts.  Maybe it is just something that happens at my place.   It happened twice in the last three years anyhow, and from the same blind. 

I think what's going on is that those guys aren't patient enough to wait for the big deer to come out -- they are shooting the scouts and not even realizing it!

[wolc123]

53 minutes ago, TreeGuy said:

And we just named your blind, the "scout blind"

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
 

Sounds good.   It is definitely my favorite blind.   I did not expect much from it this year, since there was no standing corn near it (too wet to plant this spring).   That is why the "scout" caught me by surprise on November 2 this year.   I am going to hunt back there tomorrow afternoon. I don't think anyone got the scout yet this year (my neighbor took the 2016 3-point scout on Thanksgiving morning).  This year's scout is a much larger-bodied 3-point, so he will not get a pass from me, if I see him tomorrow.  My trigger finger is especially ithchy after another deerless day over at my folks place today.  Even the squirrels stayed well out of range of the pellet gun that I brought along.

 

47 minutes ago, goosifer said:

I think what's going on is that those guys aren't patient enough to wait for the big deer to come out -- they are shooting the scouts and not even realizing it!

Maybe so.  I nearly did that this year because the body was big on the scout, even though he only had 3 points total. Fortunately, I stuck to my plan of "three or more on a side" for the first half of the season(s).  It paid off, just like it did in 2016.  This year's scout showed up about a half hour after the start of southern-zone crossbow season.   Now that we are in the tail end of gun-season, he is back on the hit-list.  It would be cool to get the pair back together again in our freezer.   

Edited December 8, 2019 by wolc123

[TreeGuy]

Maybe so.  I nearly did that this year because the body was big on the scout, even though he only had 3 points total. Fortunately, I stuck to my plan of "three or more on a side" for the first half of the season(s).  It paid off, just like it did in 2016.  This year's scout showed up about a half hour after the start of southern-zone crossbow season.   Now that we are in the tail end of gun-season, he is back on the hit-list.  It would be cool to get the pair back together again in our freezer.   

Just be sure to keep the order correct. Scout steaks on top in the freezer, and eat him first.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[wolc123]

8 hours ago, TreeGuy said:

Just be sure to keep the order correct. Scout steaks on top in the freezer, and eat him first.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
 

I do not expect to get a shot at him from the "scout blind", which is located in a hedge-row between two open fields.   Deer seldom venture out on those open fields after gun season starts.   I am pretty sure that it was him that I heard crashing thru the thicket behind that blind, just after I arrowed the older 8-point.   That threw me off on the recovery, and caused the guts to stay in the older deer for an extra half hour or so.   Getting the guts out ASAP is best for taste of the meat (you will never catch me "backing out until morning" ).  My plan for this afternoon, is to be up in another blind in the mature hardwoods several hundred yards further back.  That has been my best late-season spot thru the years.

There is not much room left in our freezer, so he will have to share a shelf with a turkey and some other odds and ends.   We have about a year's worth of venison in there now, and always try to eat it in the order that it was obtained.   That means that the scout gets eaten last, and will likely go more than a year before consumption (other than the tenderloins, which go right away, and the heart, which my wife will pickle with the rest for Valentine's  day).   The best thing about the vacuum sealer is that you can stock up for the lean years on the plentiful ones, with no loss in flavor.     

Edited December 8, 2019 by wolc123

[cbyzerman]

I have never personally witnessed the scout thing....  In my opinion those big ones are gonna trust there nose more than some dumb yearling ........ 

[crappyice]

If deer have all this intelligence and cunning it makes our lack of success more palatable and our successes greater!

Do mature does send their fawns out as “scouts” - that’s F up on many levels if so?!?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TreeGuy]

I do not expect to get a shot at him from the "scout blind", which is located in a hedge-row between two open fields.   Deer seldom venture out on those open fields after gun season starts.   I am pretty sure that it was him that I heard crashing thru the thicket behind that blind, just after I arrowed the older 8-point.   That threw me off on the recovery, and caused the guts to stay in the older deer for an extra half hour or so.   Getting the guts out ASAP is best for taste of the meat (you will never catch me "backing out until morning" ).  My plan for this afternoon, is to be up in another blind in the mature hardwoods several hundred yards further back.  That has been my best late-season spot thru the years.
There is not much room left in our freezer, so he will have to share a shelf with a turkey and some other odds and ends.   We have about a year's worth of venison in there now, and always try to eat it in the order that it was obtained.   That means that the scout gets eaten last, and will likely go more than a year before consumption (other than the tenderloins, which go right away, and the heart, which my wife will pickle with the rest for Valentine's  day).   The best thing about the vacuum sealer is that you can stock up for the lean years on the plentiful ones, with no loss in flavor.     

I highly recommend you consider changing your mind on not backing out and leaving a deer over night. It's the right thing to do, sometimes. Again, I'll have to assume you have never had a deer that's sat over night, or a gut shot deer.... As I have and again could not tell ANY difference in taste. For a guy who eats balls, I'm surprised your even concerned with taste.



Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I hope that is a Joke about eating ( everything) on a Buck. Say he does not eat those..

Ahh But yes and says they are something of a "Must Have" for all us hunters. Although his claim to fame is killing baby bucks so maybe the "Sac" is a bit more tender on those.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk