NY Senate Committee Hearing

[WNYBuckHunter]

I ran across this on another forum, actually from an old Empire member and thought Id pass it on here...

http://www.nysenate.gov/event/2010/jun/08/environmental-conservation-meeting

notable segments...

"- NY bowhunters had there guy spewing his usual BS at 10:43 and stated  that currently there are already laws in effect for handicapped  individuals to use a crossbow in ny, what a laugh. then he brings up the  PSE tach-10 and how this thing is built on a tactical stock and is  deadly to 100 yds, then states how it takes no skill to shoot a crossbow  etc, etc.

- at 23:27 you have a guy/committee speaker who speaks about how the  crossbow is not a bow and a poachers weapon and is more like a rifle and  will shoot 100 yds, and in my amazment there wasn't a single person  there to dispute this complete and total hogwash? The committee head then stops him and goes on to say that there is a  huge show of support for the crossbow in NY with e-mails, calls and  letters at record amount and more letters and e-mails in support of this  than any other bill they are currently viewing."

[WNYBuckHunter]

I like how the NYB rep starts off by saying that they "represent all  bowhunters in NY". That statement is just a prelude to a bunch of  obvious nonsense. I also like how a rep for an organization that is  supposed to be promoting and protecting hunting, purposely misconstrues  the name of the PSE x-bow to emphasize the word "assault". Wow, way to  champion the anti-hunter sentiment and attitude.

 

  Ill be writing letter #3 to my state reps, with references to this video  and a link to it.

[HuntingNY]

I added the video to your original post for everyone. 

[WNYBuckHunter]

schweet  ;D

[SteveB]

I like how the NYB rep starts off by saying that they "represent all  bowhunters in NY". That statement is just a prelude to a bunch of  obvious nonsense. I also like how a rep for an organization that is  supposed to be promoting and protecting hunting, purposely misconstrues  the name of the PSE x-bow to emphasize the word "assault". Wow, way to  champion the anti-hunter sentiment and attitude.

 

  Ill be writing letter #3 to my state reps, with references to this video  and a link to it.

Great post - the presumptious of that guy is amazing - but typical.

[Doc]

Like it or not, until you form your own bowhunting organization, NYB is the only organization that speaks for all bowhunters. They are the only recognized bowhunter mouthpiece by legislators and the DEC and anyone else who influences the activity of bowhunting. So, if you have a problem with how they are representing you, and the stances on issues that they take, I would suggest that you do something about it such as joining and changing things from the inside or starting your own organization. I suspect that you might not like the latter choice, because you would soon find out that the world is full of people who would rather stand on the outside offering nothing but worthless sniping. But at least you would be actively trying to represent bowhunters in a positive fashion for a change instead of just sitting back and carping at those who do devote time and effort in the cause of having bowhunters heard.

Doc

[burmjohn]

I'm not sure where I stand on this to be honest, I'd have to thing about it for a while.  I am not sure if I would want cross bows during archery, but then again I'm not sure if it would even effect anything? 

[Larry]

I don’t know if I should put this out there. This issue may be decided in the courts. While down state on business, we got to talking about deer hunting. The subject of crossbows came up and one of the guys stated that someone may be getting ready to take the state to court under the Americans with Disabilities act. Basically saying by not being able to use a crossbow to hunt it violates his right to hunt. I know someone at the DEC and told them what I had heard and they said the state would not fight it in if it went to court. Before you say it not going to happen remember what state you live in. I am not oppose to the use of crossbows but I would not want the courts of New York to dictate how it is setup.

[sits in trees]

NYSDEC stat... for every 100 hunters we lose in NY do to aging we only gain 55 replacements, something to ponder NY hunters..

[burmjohn]

Is anyone here a NY Bowhunter Association member? Maybe they can better educate us on groups position.  I know this one issue may be touchy, however it looks as though they have done some things in the past to benefit all the NY bow hunters.

[SteveB]

Is anyone here a NY Bowhunter Association member? Maybe they can better educate us on groups position.  I know this one issue may be touchy, however it looks as though they have done some things in the past to benefit all the NY bow hunters.

They have and continue to a lot of positive things. But they have some positions that simply are not allowed to be discussed by the handful that controls the organization. I have been a member twice - the 1st time while I still supported the banning of crossbows. I found it impossible even then to work for any change what so ever from within. General membership is notified of all decisions after they are made and no input is sought prior.  While they are the only bowhunting only org in NY, the membership represents less then 1% of NY bowhunters. I sincerely wish there was a way to open them up so info and opinions could be shared proactively rather then reactively with the members - but currently that is not the case.

Failing that I feel we do need another org that would better represent all bowhunters. I have neither the time or skills to organize such a group, but would be willing to join and actively support one.

[burmjohn]

I wonder why they would choose not to involve the members in their decisions for feedback and assistance before going forth on an issue.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Like it or not, until you form your own bowhunting organization, NYB is the only organization that speaks for all bowhunters. They are the only recognized bowhunter mouthpiece by legislators and the DEC and anyone else who influences the activity of bowhunting. So, if you have a problem with how they are representing you, and the stances on issues that they take, I would suggest that you do something about it such as joining and changing things from the inside or starting your own organization. I suspect that you might not like the latter choice, because you would soon find out that the world is full of people who would rather stand on the outside offering nothing but worthless sniping. But at least you would be actively trying to represent bowhunters in a positive fashion for a change instead of just sitting back and carping at those who do devote time and effort in the cause of having bowhunters heard.

Doc

Hang on there, they do not speak for me, my letters to my state reps do, as well as my non-membership in NYB. I wouldnt have the time to try and change anything from the inside of that curmudgeon organization. As far as starting an organization, I kind of remember a couple of guys talking about that on the old site and I also remember a few guys that vehimently tried shooting their idea down, saying things like "there are already enough organizations in NY" and "others have tried and not succeeded". Im not sniping, like I said, my next set of letters will be round #3 for me. I just choose not to join an organization full of elitists.

[Doc]

Like it or not, until you form your own bowhunting organization, NYB is the only organization that speaks for all bowhunters. They are the only recognized bowhunter mouthpiece by legislators and the DEC and anyone else who influences the activity of bowhunting. So, if you have a problem with how they are representing you, and the stances on issues that they take, I would suggest that you do something about it such as joining and changing things from the inside or starting your own organization. I suspect that you might not like the latter choice, because you would soon find out that the world is full of people who would rather stand on the outside offering nothing but worthless sniping. But at least you would be actively trying to represent bowhunters in a positive fashion for a change instead of just sitting back and carping at those who do devote time and effort in the cause of having bowhunters heard.

Doc

Hang on there, they do not speak for me, my letters to my state reps do, as well as my non-membership in NYB. I wouldnt have the time to try and change anything from the inside of that curmudgeon organization. As far as starting an organization, I kind of remember a couple of guys talking about that on the old site and I also remember a few guys that vehimently tried shooting their idea down, saying things like "there are already enough organizations in NY" and "others have tried and not succeeded". Im not sniping, like I said, my next set of letters will be round #3 for me. I just choose not to join an organization full of elitists.

Like it or not, I repeat that NYB speaks for bowhunters and you know it is true. I don't really want to discourage anyone from independantly writing letters to legislators and any other body of power, but the plain facts are that the power of your single communication is dwarfed and made insignificant on bowhunting issues simply because NYB is the only recognized and organized body of bowhunters. And that is true regardless of their size or standpoint on the issues. You can call them all the names you want. You can rant and rail in forums all you want, but the fact is that it is the movers and shakers within that organization that officially has the ear of the legislature and the DEC when those people feel like listening to bowhunters at all. They are the ones that DO take the time to push issues in the direction they want them. We can all sit here and say we don't like this and we don't like that, but its all wasted energy.

My take is that I agree with more of what they believe and do than those things that I don't. Yes there are some significant issues that I have total disagreement with them on. I have made the opportunities to have my say, including lengthy phone calls with the President of the organization. I suspect that if the membership agreed with me and took the brief amount of time that it takes to register their opinion, there would be changes. However, we have far too many people who would rather not get involved. That includes members as well as those who like to merely sit on the sidelines with nothing invested and take potshots.

By the way, I do still believe that we have enough sportsmen's organizations, but I will say that if someone truly believes that they have a big enough gripe with NYB and they want to lend some credibility to their position, putting their time effort and money where there mouth is, as the current organization does, would certainly show credibility and dedication to their position. No, they would not get my support, because I do not share their view that NYB is broken beyond repair. I do not expect or demand that NYB needs to agree with everyone of my views, and I don't know any reasonable person who would ever expect that. Those that do are guaranteed to forever be malcontents no matter how many organizations you come up with. What I do believe is that bowhunters are better served in this state and in any state if they are organized than if they are not. Apparently not everyone agrees with that.

Doc

[SteveB]

We will not have enough organizations in NY until we have one for bowhunters willing to communicate openly with them and that has the tools in place to do so.

[Doc]

We will not have enough organizations in NY until we have one for bowhunters willing to communicate openly with them and that has the tools in place to do so.

Great! ..... when are you going to start it up?

Doc

[SteveB]

If you read my other post, I freely admit I have neither the time or skills needed but would assist and support anyone who does. This does not mean I am willing to acceptthe only org because it is the only one.

The fact is in their current mode, NYB is not representing us and show no inclination to change. You admit they have problems as well - how do we get them to change if they reuse to allow input from their members? Retorical question needing no answer as nothing will happen until they open up.

[Doc]

Actually, they don't refuse to allow input from members at all. In fact if you were a member you would be familiar with the questionaires were sent out where they solicited opinions and input from members. You would also be familiar with the fact that these guys do not hide their contact information and are easily available for comment by phone or e-mail. That's the problem with commenting on an organization that you are not a member of.

But look, I am starting to tire of this thread and am not really happy about extending this discussion as a platform for you to do the anti's work of trying to tear down all organization of bowhunters without any positive ideas on how to come up with anything better. It's clear that you have had some bad experience that has left you with a total hatred of the organization or some personal problem with someone in the NYB. I can't help you out with that. But I do find it disturbing that your attempts at discouraging bowhunters from joining together and strengthening the sport through organization is exactly a tactic that the animal rights people would use. Yes, they are the people who joined together to openly declare war specifically on bowhunters and coincidentally you seem to be bent on doing their work for them by discouraging bowhunters from seeking organization while at the same time offering no alternative. That's not a position I as a bowhunter would be real comfortable with.

Doc

[SteveB]

That's the problem with commenting on an organization that you are not a member of.

I simply tell my story and experiances - if that is negative, it is what it is. I spent 3+ years as a member - was a county co-rep for almost 2. Never saw a questionaire or had recieved any attempt to communicate with me other then an occassional request to man a booth in a membership drive. I offered repeatedly my services to do more - even when I was still anti xbow to no availe. I repeat - I do not hate the org - they do a ton of great work. I think attempting to get them to open up so members would feel they are part of the org and allow their involvement and imput is a very positive thing. NYB could be an extremely powerful force for ALL bowhunters in the state if they choose to. And I would be the first to return and support them with greater vigor then I use now to show their shortcomings as an organization that is far from member driven.

And trying to paint me as an anti or animal rights person is not even a weak arguement.

[burmjohn]

Lets all play nice please! 

[WNYBuckHunter]

Doc, if you are tired of this discussion, then stop commenting on it. You can stand your ground on your opinion all you want, but the simple fact is, NYB does not represent me, nor do they represent every bow hunter in NY. I am represented by my letters and emails that I send to my local and state representatives, and so is every other hunter and individual in the state. NYB can gripe about these issues all they want and spout all the misinformation they want, but if all hunters with an opinion contact their local and state representatives, the majority can prevail over the voice of NYB. You dont need an organization to do that. If you watch the video, the one council member states that the crossbow issue has by far received the majority of calls, letters and emails to the offices and the overwhelming majority of those have been in favor of legalizing crossbows. My impression is that things are looking better for crossbows in NY than they have in a long time, and that NYB may end up losing their fight.

[Chevy]

It appears the guys taking shots at NYB are the same guys who want to take over the archery season with their xguns.  Very transparent.

[SteveB]

Chevy - again, I hunt with a recurve.

Thanks

[Chevy]

If thats true then why such stauch support for the xbow?  I would love to know why you  fight for unrestricted inclusion of the xbow in archery season if you don't have a dog in that fight. i.e. you woundn't use it yourself.  come clean.

I fight against the xgun because I feel it would drasticly change the complextion of archery season which I enjoy.   

[WNYBuckHunter]

I dont own a crossbow, and I doubt I would go out and spend the money on one right away. Im fine with my compound. The reason I am taking any shots at NYB is because they put themselves out there as the definitive voice of bow hunters in NY, which they most certainly are not. I also speak out that I believe crossbows are a good thing and not the evil weapon, poacher weapon of choice or gun that some make them out to be. They are simply another tool available for the ethical harvesting of game. I also believe that the crossbow has alot more in common with the currently legal forms of archery equipment, so its only natural that it be implemented in the archery season.