Sniper's on letchworth state park????

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Well i understand if there is a problem it needs to be dealt with. On the other hand the deer in each end of the park will travel such as all whitetails will. In the almost 20 years i have been there(and im talking back when it took 3 people to be on a PARTY PERMIT)to get a doe tag.I have never hunted in the safe zones. I hunt the center of the park and most,but not always,the bottom. That park is in the worst shape than it ever has as far as deer numbers. If you read some of my past posts you will see i spoke highly of the park always. But no more. Between the sharpshooters(if it happened) the hunting(Though doubtful as they have ar and only allow a certin number of hunters and the park is 17 miles long of some nasty a$$ stuff.There are no deer.Then if you add in the 90 plus damadge permits they give farmers along the park(That wont let you hunt their land) Shooting deer all night with lights and yes i have talked to guys at bars and places(locals) that say they know for sure farmers that gut shoot the deer and they run back on the park to die.(hence alot of dead deer found on the park) They are takin the deer out. With all the cuts in the state and with that being a big park and if there is no hunters money,who knows that park might be next on the list.Also i am not sure about the park not making their own rules. Where did the antler restricts come from when the rest of 8m could shoot any buck???? I didnt see any dec meetings or reports!!! I could of missed that. Who knows. All i will say is a spoke to many in the c cabins that have been hunting there for years and they say their opening week will be spent elsewhere from here on in. Thats a great park,Just to see it go by the wayside!!!! Like so many other's!!!!

[132 eight pointer]

It seems that opening the south end to bow hunting was too little too late. Implementing antler restrictions and doe only bowhunting in the previously off limits area at the south end, and then having pros shoot deer in that area to lower the deer population seems hasty at best.Yes it is better that the killed deer were donated to foodbanks but better management in the first place could have prevented a deer cull being necessary. A state owned park working in conjunction with the same state's agency that oversees deer management shouldn't be that difficult. The town of Webster has DMAPS from the DEC for use on the town property, bow only and the season is open from start of bow to the end of the late season as defined by the state.I am of the opinion that this deer shoot is a knee jerk reaction that is a direct result of New York State's inability in the past to manage the state budget.The park managers may very well be choosing the only option available to them.However paying people to shoot deer seems illogical to me as far as the budget is concerned.I will always have fond memories of Letchworth Park and hope I will have more in the future. I can only hope for the best.

[Localqdm]

I have never hunted anywhere with anything close to 100 deer sq/mi. If they are really that thick in the safety zones, don't people push these to get them out?

[Localqdm]

thats tough to hear about the lack of success here, cause I live just 10 mi from the n entrance and was thinking of giving it a go (with the bow this yr since I didn't apply for shotgun).

[WNYBuckHunter]

Well i understand if there is a problem it needs to be dealt with. On the other hand the deer in each end of the park will travel such as all whitetails will. In the almost 20 years i have been there(and im talking back when it took 3 people to be on a PARTY PERMIT)to get a doe tag.I have never hunted in the safe zones. I hunt the center of the park and most,but not always,the bottom. That park is in the worst shape than it ever has as far as deer numbers. If you read some of my past posts you will see i spoke highly of the park always. But no more. Between the sharpshooters(if it happened) the hunting(Though doubtful as they have ar and only allow a certin number of hunters and the park is 17 miles long of some nasty a$$ stuff.There are no deer.Then if you add in the 90 plus damadge permits they give farmers along the park(That wont let you hunt their land) Shooting deer all night with lights and yes i have talked to guys at bars and places(locals) that say they know for sure farmers that gut shoot the deer and they run back on the park to die.(hence alot of dead deer found on the park) They are takin the deer out. With all the cuts in the state and with that being a big park and if there is no hunters money,who knows that park might be next on the list.Also i am not sure about the park not making their own rules. Where did the antler restricts come from when the rest of 8m could shoot any buck???? I didnt see any dec meetings or reports!!! I could of missed that. Who knows. All i will say is a spoke to many in the c cabins that have been hunting there for years and they say their opening week will be spent elsewhere from here on in. Thats a great park,Just to see it go by the wayside!!!! Like so many other's!!!!

I understand where you are coming from but, the farmers along the outside of the park should be getting damage permits with deer density that high. After all, they make their living off of the crops that the deer are destroying. The farmers also receive aid from the government, which means all of the tax payers. They should get first crack. Do I think the DEC should set up a program to prompt farmers to allow hunters on their land, yes, but thats not the way it is at this point.

As far as the deer traveling, of course they do, but if you have a few square miles at each end with 100 deer per square mile, then add in the deer that normally live toward the middle, you are still way over ideal density. Do I think more than just lowering the desity needs to be done? Yes. Too much of the park has become mature forest with little to no undergrowth, the canopy needs to be thinned out.

Antler restrictions and other more stringent rules for hunting in the park are just tighter regs than what the DEC has in place for 8M. They cant open special seasons beyond what 8M already has, meaning allowing guns in bow season or extending seasons without DEC changing the laws for the park.

They make more money from the campgrounds in the weeks surrounding the 4th of July than they do in all of hunting season from the cabins. Besides, if guys that have been regulars dont rent the cabins, Id put money on other people renting them. Youll just see a new crowd in there. Just my opinion though.

BTW, from what I am seeing and hearing this season from all over the place, Letchworth isnt the only place thats been slow so far.

Just my thoughts on what I have heard and seen.

[WNYBuckHunter]

It seems that opening the south end to bow hunting was too little too late. Implementing antler restrictions and doe only bowhunting in the previously off limits area at the south end, and then having pros shoot deer in that area to lower the deer population seems hasty at best.Yes it is better that the killed deer were donated to foodbanks but better management in the first place could have prevented a deer cull being necessary. A state owned park working in conjunction with the same state's agency that oversees deer management shouldn't be that difficult. The town of Webster has DMAPS from the DEC for use on the town property, bow only and the season is open from start of bow to the end of the late season as defined by the state.I am of the opinion that this deer shoot is a knee jerk reaction that is a direct result of New York State's inability in the past to manage the state budget.The park managers may very well be choosing the only option available to them.However paying people to shoot deer seems illogical to me as far as the budget is concerned.I will always have fond memories of Letchworth Park and hope I will have more in the future. I can only hope for the best.

The DEC is already involved in Letchworth. They have and hand out DMAPs to people that hunt there if they need them.

[ncountry]

I have never hunted anywhere with anything close to 100 deer sq/mi. If they are really that thick in the safety zones, don't people push these to get them out?

Besides the legality of it ,the park is not really set up to drive the safety area to a hunting area

[132 eight pointer]

The DEC is already involved in Letchworth. They have and hand out DMAPs to people that hunt there if they need them.

Do you know any details about dmaps, are they available for the south end bowhunting area or the whole park ?

[ncountry]

Yes, I have hunted the park, as well as camped hiked, etc in it all my life. I know where the deer congregate in the exclusion zones. That is where they said they did the sharp shooting/culling. Sorry, but 100 deer per square mile is a recipe for bad things to happen. Disease, starvation and other things come to mind. Like I said, they could do something like other areas have been looking into, and introduce contraception to the area. Id rather have some deer culled by use of sharp shooters and have the meat made use of rather than birth control for deer. Wouldnt you?

I completely agree that 100 deer /square mile is too many.I also disagree with any other method other than hunting being used. They have only tried a special archery hunt for what 1 maybe 2 years .They need to come up with a good plan for a method using hunting and give it an honest try. If after say 5 years it is not working then alternative methods could be explored. It is actually a very good opportunity for the state to educate some of the non hunting population about the benefits of hunting and the downfall of not allowing hunting . Using some signage and other methods at parking areas and trail-heads. I have talked to quite a few tourists while waiting for a ride at some of the parking area .Most ,if not all, were more curious than upset.

[Localqdm]

Besides the legality of it ,the park is not really set up to drive the safety area to a hunting area

I didn't mean set up and shoot in the safety area. just thought if guys walked around inside it, the deer wouldn't stay. But I haven't hunted there and you guys have more experience with the area and there must be a reason why it doesn't work that way. Maybe like you say, its not really possible to set up on them where it's legal.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Localqdm

[the blur]

All on tax payer dollar .

The park I hunt at, they don't let you take bear or yotes, or anything except deer.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

New reports out of the park is that with all the complaints with lack of deer reported.The bottom was flooded to push the deer up into the hardwoods. Without much success. Four hunters and i mean hunters 3 days with flooded bottom and 4 deer seen and same reports from other hunters on the park this week. Damadge sounds like it is already done!!!

[genesee_mohican]

Four Season Whitetails, With all due respect, I truly believe you have been misled by rumors. I live very close to the Park and the Mt. Morris Dam. I hike and scout the park year round and am in the park.....hunting.... sunrise to sunset for about 10 days each season. Deer sightings this season have been low for everyone in the area, in the Park, 5 miles from the park and beyond. I would say it's mainly due to the warm weather. Things have just been slow out there since early November. I will, however, shed some light on the rumors:

1) Letchworth did need to reduce the herd at the very south end of the park and used sharp shooters 2 winters ago to do so. The herd was in bad shape, over populated to the extent they were in poor health and damaging the vegetation in that area of the park. Beyond that, there has been no herd reduction by the park. If a management tool was implemented, it would be public knowledge.

2) You said...."New reports out of the park is that with all the complaints with lack of deer reported.The bottom was flooded to push the deer up into the hardwoods." This is totally false! I have been hunting the bottom during bow and the first week of gun so far. Sure, the river was up a few feet......... as the entire area saw over an inch of rain on Nov 22nd, and 23rd, but the bottom was not flooded. I was on the bottom, close enough to throw a line in, and can tell you that even within a few miles of the dam, the river was well within it's banks.

Anyone believing deer numbers are down in the park should take a long walk there a day after a fresh snow fall. I think you'll be amazed at the amount of deer tracks you see. It has been an odd deer season for me and others. Lower than normal deer sightings and lower than normal shooting. Then again, it's been 25 degrees above normal and pretty windy. Let's hope the temps drop and some snow falls.

Good luck to you Four Seasons, and all huntingny.com Deer Hunters!!

GM

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Im glad that newz came from a local or someone in the know!!!! I must ask thought...Were you in the bottom this last thu,fri,sat????

[WNYBuckHunter]

Do you know any details about dmaps, are they available for the south end bowhunting area or the whole park ?

If you look at the info for applying for tags there, you can get the info on the DMAPs.

http://nysparks.state.ny.us/parks/79/permits-applications.aspx

[WNYBuckHunter]

Thanks for the info genesee_mohican.

[genesee_mohican]

I was on the bottom, East side, all day Friday below Guile Rd (22) and Saturday below Mile Marker 18, Ridge Rd. The river flow was normal. I get down there in the dark and usually sit all day. Friday I did a little walking around on the bottom. It's amazing to see how many tree stands are popping up down there. I'm a bit discouraged, but that's how it goes on state land.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I was told either sometime last week it was flooded at guardio overlook down threw the hogsback. There has always been a few stands on the west side bottom and opening morning i sat in my stand and watched many flashlights come down threw the eastside bottom.

[Red]

Well i understand if there is a problem it needs to be dealt with. On the other hand the deer in each end of the park will travel such as all whitetails will. In the almost 20 years i have been there(and im talking back when it took 3 people to be on a PARTY PERMIT)to get a doe tag.I have never hunted in the safe zones. I hunt the center of the park and most,but not always,the bottom. That park is in the worst shape than it ever has as far as deer numbers. If you read some of my past posts you will see i spoke highly of the park always. But no more. Between the sharpshooters(if it happened) the hunting(Though doubtful as they have ar and only allow a certin number of hunters and the park is 17 miles long of some nasty a$$ stuff.There are no deer.Then if you add in the 90 plus damadge permits they give farmers along the park(That wont let you hunt their land) Shooting deer all night with lights and yes i have talked to guys at bars and places(locals) that say they know for sure farmers that gut shoot the deer and they run back on the park to die.(hence alot of dead deer found on the park) They are takin the deer out. With all the cuts in the state and with that being a big park and if there is no hunters money,who knows that park might be next on the list.Also i am not sure about the park not making their own rules. Where did the antler restricts come from when the rest of 8m could shoot any buck???? I didnt see any dec meetings or reports!!! I could of missed that. Who knows. All i will say is a spoke to many in the c cabins that have been hunting there for years and they say their opening week will be spent elsewhere from here on in. Thats a great park,Just to see it go by the wayside!!!! Like so many other's!!!!

im with you on that from what ive heard the park does make their own rules even the antler restiction program. they also made their own rules with this saftey zone hunting and they sure did and hack job on that. they really need to get their stuff together. we use to do some really big river bottom drives one morning we took 11 deer on a river bottom drive and plenty more made it bt. this year we didnt see anything in the bottom or on the ridges leading to the bottom the sightings in the park really have sucked. i dont know how anyone else feels about this but those park police sure can be a pain in the ass seems like a few times a year they stop you and ask whats going on and ask you the 1000 questions want to look threw your hunting stuff but you never really see them bothering the hikers. a few years back we were driving from the A cabins to one of the rental houses that they have we didnt have any guns or anything on us we seen a big buckand put the head lights on him to get a better look then the cop pulls us over asks if we have any guns no we do not. then he sees one of the old guys in the back seat eating an apple and says what are you doing with that apple trying to bait the deer you know i can give you a ticket or arrest you for that it was one apple and he was eating it lol. we told one of the older park cops about this and he laughed and said these new young guys will try and get you for anything they are on power trips. it just seems like the past few years with all the harrassing going on and lack of deer whats really to draw hunters back to this park? also this year we were talking to one of the park rangers and hes telling us hes been seeing a lot of coyotes and some times a really big wolf lol he said he told the bioligist of this huge wolf and she had to tell him it was a coyote come on these are the people making up the hutning rules in the park they think we have wolves. he also said a majority of the park workers really dont like the hunters being in the park because the workers consider these animals their pets and take pictures of them all year long. i think the dec needs to step in and take over the park. something needs to be done.

[Red]

@ WNY: More hunters is not the problem as I exprienced it, it was the time allowed to hunt the special zone was short, a few weeks after normal opener. The other was the disregard of hunters by tourists who would actively interfere with my hunt. If they allowed more time, it would certainly be profitable. Between three of us this year we took four deer. More time to hunt, could mean more deer.

@NCountry: I agree with a late season minus tourists.

i agree this year they extended the safety zone hunting until the end of the season maybe they should extend it a little past the season also i know a few people that have those permits that would love to keep hunting it more meat in their freezers my buddy got 3 out of there 2 on the last day of bow season and im sure hell take a couple more befor the year ends. they need to be more stiff on those doe tags that they hand out for in there people dont hand them back in after each like they are suppose to wich screws over the other hunters they should have a punishment for not handing them back in.

[SteveB]

This is a family site - the language should be cleaned up out of respect for all the members.

[132 eight pointer]

If you look at the info for applying for tags there, you can get the info on the DMAPs.

http://nysparks.stat...plications.aspx

Thank you. I do remember seeing that info last year . I must have missed it this year.

[WNYBuckHunter]

No problem. I havent hunted the park in a couple of years, but I used to from time to time. Id like to go back one of these days, just been busy with private land.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

If you want to fill some tag's..My advice would be stick to the private land or wait till the park is closed,The bottom flooded and 6 to 8 inches of snow on the ground!!!!

[WNYBuckHunter]

Hunting isnt just about filling tags for me. I like hunting different areas rather than the same ol, same ol all season, which is why I still make a few trips to different pieces of state land each year. I have never had access to as much private as I do now, and Im busy getting to know travel patterns and the other people that hunt the farm.

BTW, didnt you pull a rather nice buck out of Letchworth this year already? Even with that, you are still complaining that the hunting hasnt been great lately? Ill almost guarantee that once this weather cools down, its going to get back to being good again. Its slow all over lately, and it has more to do with the warm, wind and rain than anything else. Good luck with the rest of your season!

BTW, I dumped the rest of that Pure Heat in a scrape last week and hung a trail cam over it. Im looking forward to seeing how the deer react to the stuff. Never had anything come in to it while I was hunting.