Not posted land - fair game?

[Skillet]

I was taught to ask, no matter what. Just seems like the respectful thing to do.

[Lever action]

I was taught to ask, no matter what. Just seems like the respectful thing to do.

My thoughts exactly!

[grampsretired3]

Out of respect to the landowner you have to ask permission

[sampotter]

In Connecticut, which is where I grew up, you are REQUIRED to carry a standard permission slip if you are hunting on private land and are not a direct descendant of the owner. On it are the landowner's name, address, acreage, what species you are allowed to hunt, and weapon- also the hunter's name and license #, signed by both the landowner and hunter. This helps the landowner control exactly who is allowed on their property (no tag-along buddies), at least initiates communication between the landowner and hunter once a year, and also makes the landowner not liable if the hunter gets hurt.

I have had CT game wardens check all of my permission slips, so it is enforced. Its been that way my whole life and I never thought it was a big deal. I actually wouldn't mind the same thing in NY.

[Doc]

I love how this went from a thread about the law into getting hijacked into another..."Oh things were so much better 60 years ago."

Get over it, between me and my boy we have 9 tagged deer, 8 in NY and 1 in PA this season. If you haven't adapted to the ecological changes in your region then it is your own fault, you have had decades of gradual change to adapt.

Back to the actual point of the OP. Maybe if NY wasn't backasswards about landowners being obligated to Post we wouldn't have any confusion...again, such is the case in PA, a place you cranky old timers would really hate to hunt.

Also in PA landowners are encouraged to post their property with "Cooperation Wins" signs which allow use of the land for things like hunting, fishing, or hiking; but indicates that camping, fires and motor vehicle use beyond gates is still prohibited. DCNR then will patrol those private properties as if they were public.

Finally, between my buddy and I we got all but 2 of the 9 deer this season on Public Property, there is plenty of it and plenty of deer on it.

What the hell is your problem. If you don't want to hear a little history on how we got to the point where the original post had to be asked ....... don't read it.

And speaking of hijacking topics, what made you think that your bragging about how many deer you and your kid got, or adapting to ecological changes, or the virtues of hunting state land has anything to do with the original question that was asking about "Not posted-fair game"? There's no connection at all! So, just relax and enjoy some quiet conversation. It won't hurt you ..... really.

[Meat Manager]

What the hell is your problem. If you don't want to hear a little history on how we got to the point where the original post had to be asked ....... don't read it.

And speaking of hijacking topics, what made you think that your bragging about how many deer you and your kid got, or adapting to ecological changes, or the virtues of hunting state land has anything to do with the original question that was asking about "Not posted-fair game"? There's no connection at all! So, just relax and enjoy some quiet conversation. It won't hurt you ..... really.

I love how you know I was calling you out without even quoting you. That was the top 1/3, the bottom 2/3's of my response was right on topic thanks.

And thanks, but I graduated college with a history degree (specifically the development of NY from 1850-present), I don't need an anecdotal revisionist tale from a guy who is labeled an "Elite Hunter" because he is a mod and posted 3,000 times on a message board. You brought up not only ecological changes, but some bs story you have developed about how much better things used to be (when all statistics point that the inverse is true).

I have seen you and others repeatedly turn every other thread into a "THINGS USED TO BE GREAT UNTIL THE DEC AND DOE PERMITS CAME INTO EXISTENCE" which (beyond being TOTAL BS) was the point of giving you the deer tally (my boy = my friend old man, my son is still in my wifes womb for a couple more months), there are plenty of deer in NY right now in 2011.

The Original Post is the second part of my response, and the part about Public Land is apt, because if this guy is debating walking onto someones private property (which should be posted by mandate, as it is in PA), he is much better served to find some local public land that is rightfully his to hunt.

Edited December 12, 2011 by 7J Everyday

[G-Man]

This is why land got posted in the first place.. ever think if you spend the time to find out who owns it contact the person and tell them you tracked them down because you wanted to ask to hunt and you say i saw it wasnt posted but i felt it was my responsibility to ask before going on... you might get permission to hunt it and maybe even post it for yourself. A lot of respect is given to someone who tries to track down an owner than running into them and then asking this always end in no!!!

[Meat Manager]

7J, I hear you on the "quit crying" attitude. I agree that often enough guys like to complain rather than make success on what they have. BUT, here again, we can poke some holes in your argument, when you take some real world situations into account.

1. A 17 year old kid, whose dad never took him hunting, hasn't had "time to adapt". Finding land to hunt on may be tough.

and

2. Certain areas either don't have a lot of state land, or its very crowded, or the state land has certain rules that stink. Like on LI, to hunt state land you have to go to the check station in the morning before your head to your hunting spot. This rule makes it impossible to get on stand in the dark in many cases.

In my opinion, the fact that hunters are allowed to access unposted property is cool. There are still instances where owners may not post because they truly don't care if someone hunts it. God bless them.

I agree that I wish more property owners took the "Cooperation Wins" attitude, or that the program existed here in NY like it is does in PA.

That said, I like rules, it keeps bandits out of the woods, and bandits are not a part of responsible deer management. People just walking on and off of private land means they have a better chance of poaching deer.

I am from PA, graduated from Ithaca College in 2007 here in NY and have lived in NY since...By myself I found where the county (not state, so it does not show up on the interactive maps, therefore it is less used) property that was right by my place.

I then scouted deer both through experiences given to me from my dad and grandfather (but only about 2-3 deer hunts a year from the ages of 12-17), but also by doing research in deer biology and habitat and then hunting a ton. So it is quite possible for a novice to begin hunting in NY, and I would argue public property is a much better place to start then on no-mans land.

I am not bragging, I am a mediocre hunter, but I never blame progress, the DEC, or other hunters legally shooting deer for my lack of success, and sorry if I take exception to those that do.

Edited December 12, 2011 by 7J Everyday

[WNYBuckHunter]

This is why land got posted in the first place.. ever think if you spend the time to find out who owns it contact the person and tell them you tracked them down because you wanted to ask to hunt and you say i saw it wasnt posted but i felt it was my responsibility to ask before going on... you might get permission to hunt it and maybe even post it for yourself. A lot of respect is given to someone who tries to track down an owner than running into them and then asking this always end in no!!!

Yep. Also remember that the property may already be hunted by others as well, and rather than cause yourself a bunch of issues down the road, you might want to at least try and talk with the guys that have been there before you bust up their sets or ruin their hunts.

I acquired access to 2 large farms last year, both of which were already hunted by a group of guys for many years. While I had permission to hunt the land from the owner of said land, I still made it a point to speak with the guys that already hunted it before I started hanging stands, etc. It turned out to be the best thing to do, as the guy gained alot of respect for me doing that, and we all now exchange sighting info, etc and help each other out. I also now have another group of hunting buddies, some of which have started to become personal friends.

[Doc]

I graduated college with a history degree, I don't need an anecdotal revisionist tale from a guy who is labeled an "Elite Hunter" because he is a mod and posted 3,000 times on a message board. You brought up not only ecological changes, but some bs story you have developed about how much better things used to be (when all statistics point that the inverse is true).

I have seen you and others repeatedly turn every other thread into a "THINGS USED TO BE GREAT UNTIL THE DEC AND DOE PERMITS CAME INTO EXISTENCE" which (beyond being TOTAL BS) was the point of giving you the deer tally (my boy = my friend old man, my son is still in my wifes womb for a couple more months), there are plenty of deer in NY right now in 2011.

The Original Post is the second part of my response, and the part about Public Land is apt, because if this guy is debating walking onto someones private property (which should be posted by mandate, as it is in PA), he is much better served to find some local public land that is rightfully his to hunt.

I would suggest that you go back to that college and get your money back ..... lol.

Maybe you could try to get control of yourself long enough to apply the proper quotes to the proper people and stop making these things up as you go along. I never have said anything about how "THINGS USED TO BE GREAT UNTIL THE DEC AND DOE PERMITS CAME INTO EXISTENCE". The fact is that I doubt that anybody here ever said that so that is just something that you found convenient to make up. As a matter of fact, I didn't even say that back in the 60's deer hunting was any better or worse than it is now. The fact is that my whole post was about the lack of posted signs, and the freedom to hunt where ever you wanted. So what the heck you are talking about is completely beyond me. It all seems like a complete fabrication just to have something to flame about. Are you that desparate to post something negative that you have to fabricate quotes? Maybe you might want to go back and take a look at the posts that you are trying to misquote and i would guess that you will feel mighty foolish.

I think you should wipe the spit off your screen, try to relax that vein that is throbbing on your forehead and relax a bit and try to have a decent conversation using some form of civility.

[Meat Manager]

Back in 1951, a posted sign in our area was a novelty. Hunting lands were huge and primarily owned by farmers who were way to busy to worry about chasing trespassers, and really had no interest in doing so. Also, a great many of them couldn't afford posted signs or the time that it took to put them up. All land that was away from houses and barns was considered a place to hunt and it was fine with landowner (no permission needed or expected).

Fast forward a decade or so, and you find improved roads and improved vehicles and improved wages that lured commuters out into the rural areas with the promise of cheap land, and lots of it, as the farmers rapidly deserted their farms and turned to the more lucrative jobs in the cities. Large tracts of land were broken into small parcels and filled with city transplants. With this new breed of landowner, fresh from the city, came new attitudes of possessiveness. Up went the posted signs and up went the denials of access. Every year since then it became more engrained in the rural societies. This idea of locking up land has become the established norms. Much of it has been driven by hunters themselves with careless hunting practices and a lack of respect for the property of others. Heavily publicized hunting deaths and near misses added fuel to the fire. Other abuses such as litter, fence damage, mechanized trespass with offensive sounding off-road vehicles and other abuses has solidified the attitudes of posting such that it is something that will never go away.

A new force has also been gaining acceptance recently. That is the new hunter/managers who have been impressed with the idea of growing their own trophies so they too can join the big-boys that they see on the TV that harvest these "manufactured trophies". I have seen the high fences, and the leases, and the large chunks of acreage that have been withdrawn from the hunting public with only a few "members" allowed to hunt there. This idea was unheard of back in 1951.

I'm sure that the future will hold even more stringent access as land continues to be gobbled up by development. Yes, a lot has changed over the past 60 years and the trends are obvious. Those posted signs aren't going anywhere.

Sorry my elite hunting mod master, I will take back the quotation marks in my overgeneralized thesis of what I have been hearing from you and others around here:

Hunting stinks now, it used to be better back when, and oh yeah, if you are living in a house built after 1950 or shooting does its your fault.

I'm no troll trying to find a fight, I have way more posts (i know its a measly 75) just giving an update of conditions live from the stand, or put in my experience using doe estrus, or asked for advice about ML hunting.

The only time I get in a beef its with one of you guys spewing theories with no stats, and then when stats are provided for them, you explain why those stats are no good.

You may not fall into every specific generalization here, but almost every time you post it is about how great it all used to be, well I'll tell you I get more deer now in both PA and NY then I did in the 1990's, but that is just another useless anecdote, so who cares.

Again, you shifted this conversation to some bs story you have concocted....I made some cogent points about hunting on private property without permission and the merits of mandated posters.

Edited December 12, 2011 by 7J Everyday

[Doc]

Sorry my elite hunting mod master, I will take back the quotation marks in my overgeneralized thesis of what I have been hearing from you and others around here:

Hunting stinks now, it used to be better back when, and oh yeah, if you are living in a house built after 1950 or shooting does its your fault.

You may not fall into every specific generalization here, but almost every time you post it is about how great it all used to be, well I'll tell you I get more deer now in both PA and NY then I did in the 1990's, but that is just another useless anecdote, so who cares.

Again, you shifted this conversation to some bs story you have concocted....I made some cogent about hunting on private property without permission and the merits of mandated posters.

So far, and once again, you are just flat making up things and this time I will call it what it is ....... lying. I don't know what your problem is but you seem to have a problem with reality. I would really appreciate it if you would learn to read something and understand what it is you are reading and stop listening to those crazy voices in your head.

What is it about the fact that I never talked about the quality of deer hunting back in the 60's (or 50's) on this forum, that you can't seem to get into your thick skull? I'll go one step further and call BS on your whole notion that you ever heard anyone say anything like "Hunting stinks now, it used to be better back when, and oh yeah, if you are living in a house built after 1950 or shooting does its your fault" on this forum. That is just simply a lie that you made up isn't it?

You never did go back and read the posts that you are lying about did you? You would rather continue to make an ass out of yourself over some imagined comments. You don't really have any idea what those posts were all about now do you? You don't even care how foolish you sound do you? You are making this whole argument up simply because you felt the need to vent over some imagined post that never even took place anywhere but in your head. You've never heard any post on this forum that in any way relates to the nonsense you have been spewing on this thread have you? So what exactly does all that make you. Stop and think about that. Perhaps you should be seeking out some help with those voices in your head. Let us know how you make out.

[Meat Manager]

Okay, here is where you explain why other hunters not hunting enough is a reason for a so-called decline in sightings over years, which is bs, the deer take has been level for 2 decades:

Maybe I'm not understanding the original post, but I don't see this as being anything peculiar for the seasons of the last bunch of years. haven't we all seen the season being primarily reduced to an opening day event (or maybe the opening two days)? I thought it was a pretty accepted expectation that every year hunters are becoming pretty much part-timers. Many show up for the first day, never to return again. Or perhaps in days after opening day, a few hunters show up for a few hours in the morning and then disappear at lunch time. Also, most of what few hunters that come out after opening day are strictly sitters with nobody moving deer. Meanwhile, once the trauma of opening day takes place, the deer remain in super survival mode as long as there is even one hunter in their area, and they remain sitting tight in their favorite sanctuaries. It has nothing to do with super heavy harvests, or coyotes, or diseases, or any kinds of deer deaths because when the following year rolls around, there are as many deer as ever (+/-).

Let's face it, hunters are simply getting to be part-time participants with only a very tiny core of die-hard hunters (not enough to move deer). Not only are we losing numbers of hunters, but the dedication is waning as well. At least that is the way I have perceived recent hunter attitudes and participation in recent seasons.

Here is one of your cohorts blaming other hunters and doe permits in the same thread, ignoring links to herd data and deer take claiming that data is less believable then all you guys and your anecdotes:

In the area I live and every other area I hunt in the deer numbers are way down.It has been in a steady decline for at least the last 10 years . In my neighborhood ,for example, 10 years ago I could drive around the "block" ( a 4-5 mile ride) and spot 100 deer in the fields.10 in this field, 3 in this one, 8 in that one,deer spread out all over the place. The same trip now , I may be able to see 0- 10 if I am lucky. I have been the sole bowhunter on this one alfafa field for years . I used to see 10+ deer come into the field on an evening hunt. Now my daughter and I sat there this year 4 different times and saw only 2 deer total.There are some in this state that say there are just as many deer as there ever was but for every 1 of them I bet you can find 10 more that are not seeing as many deer.

I believe the farmer permits ,dmps , and muzzleloader w/scope season all have contributed to this. at least up here in the northern zone.

I believe we as hunters have a responsibility to manage the herd on our own. When we notice the herd is thinning out stop shooting does.Do not wait for the state to limit your doe tags and at the same time complain about the lack of deer.We all should know how well the state manages anything.

Finally I guess you forgot when you wrote this about 1950 and 60 years ago, blah blah blah, you are obviously implying things were better way back when:

Back in 1951, a posted sign in our area was a novelty. Hunting lands were huge and primarily owned by farmers who were way to busy to worry about chasing trespassers, and really had no interest in doing so. Also, a great many of them couldn't afford posted signs or the time that it took to put them up. All land that was away from houses and barns was considered a place to hunt and it was fine with landowner (no permission needed or expected).

Fast forward a decade or so, and you find improved roads and improved vehicles and improved wages that lured commuters out into the rural areas with the promise of cheap land, and lots of it, as the farmers rapidly deserted their farms and turned to the more lucrative jobs in the cities. Large tracts of land were broken into small parcels and filled with city transplants. With this new breed of landowner, fresh from the city, came new attitudes of possessiveness. Up went the posted signs and up went the denials of access. Every year since then it became more engrained in the rural societies. This idea of locking up land has become the established norms. Much of it has been driven by hunters themselves with careless hunting practices and a lack of respect for the property of others. Heavily publicized hunting deaths and near misses added fuel to the fire. Other abuses such as litter, fence damage, mechanized trespass with offensive sounding off-road vehicles and other abuses has solidified the attitudes of posting such that it is something that will never go away.

A new force has also been gaining acceptance recently. That is the new hunter/managers who have been impressed with the idea of growing their own trophies so they too can join the big-boys that they see on the TV that harvest these "manufactured trophies". I have seen the high fences, and the leases, and the large chunks of acreage that have been withdrawn from the hunting public with only a few "members" allowed to hunt there. This idea was unheard of back in 1951.

I'm sure that the future will hold even more stringent access as land continues to be gobbled up by development. Yes, a lot has changed over the past 60 years and the trends are obvious. Those posted signs aren't going anywhere.

I think you are the one who needs to calm down, I'm not flamin, I'm butchering my third deer, so I am about out of time for this, thanks for the lively back and forth though elite mod master.

Edited December 12, 2011 by 7J Everyday

[nyantler]

hunting unposted property is fair game to many hunters until that unposted property is thiers... then somehow they have a huge problem with it..lol

[Doc]

Okay, here is where you explain why other hunters not hunting enough is a reason for a so-called decline in sightings over years, which is bs, the deer take has been level for 2 decades:

Here is one of your cohorts blaming other hunters and doe permits in the same thread:

Finally I guess you forgot when you wrote this about 1950 and 60 years ago, blah blah blah:

I think you are the one who needs to calm down, I'm not flamin, I'm butchering, so I am about out of time for this.

What on earth does a comment about the lack of hunter pressure relative to deer movement have to do with anything that you have been raving about particularly anything about deer hunting quality in the 60's? And I'm not sure what the post about observations over the past decade has to do with anything that I was talking about either. You are really out there floundering around now and frankly you are getting a bit ridiculous in your grasping for straws. Please, the time is now to go get that help that I spoke of. It appears that you can't seem to stay focused in any particular direction for more than a few seconds. Really, conversing with you is an exercise in futility and a complete waste of time. It's like talking to a raving lunatic.

[Meat Manager]

What on earth does a comment about the lack of hunter pressure relative to deer movement have to do with anything that you have been raving about particularly anything about deer hunting quality in the 60's? And I'm not sure what the post about observations over the past decade has to do with anything that I was talking about either. You are really out there floundering around now and frankly you are getting a bit ridiculous in your grasping for straws. Please, the time is now to go get that help that I spoke of. It appears that you can't seem to stay focused in any particular direction for more than a few seconds. Really, conversing with you is an exercise in futility and a complete waste of time. It's like talking to a raving lunatic.

Try to understand this paps...I called you and others out for complaining about how things used to be better, then I provided examples:

1. There is less deer movement because of the decline of the dedication of hunters overtime, I provided an example of when you said that.

2. Then I provided an example of someone blaming guys shooting does.

3. Then I showed your post from this thread when you implied that hunting was better because of access to private property without permission and that the hunting land was better before the past 60 years of development (basically saying that if you live in a house built after 1950, you are part of the problem.)

3 clear examples of how the haters on this site love to go back to: Hunting stinks now as compared to when you had more moving hunters in gun season, or when you couldn't shoot does, or didn't need permission to hunt unposted private property.

There now I spelled it our for you. I am not all over the place, I am gonna keep calling you out when you guys blame other hunters or progress, or the DEC for your hunting shortcomings.

Edited December 12, 2011 by 7J Everyday

[bkln]

OK, this is getting old, hey folks why can't we just get along..... :-)

I started this shit and I will end it, Thank You for all your responses, this topic in now closed....

Thank You

[martin]

Nothing like a good battle in the "OCTAGON". Just waitng for some BLOOD....

[A Sportsman]

Sorry Bkln,

I was thinking about this on the train ride home today and i thought it was worth saying one more thing....

I've been hunting unposted private property in long island for the past 20 years (since I;m 15). In that time, I;ve hunted a minimum of god knows how many spots. 50? 75? And In that time, i was only twice was I asked to leave a spot. If those numbers do not show how acceptable it is to hunt unposted property on LI, I don;t know what is. I'll also add that in one instance where I got kicked off, it was by an avid hunter who claimed to be the caretaker of the property. So I can't even say for sure that he had any right to kick me out. In all likelihood he was just an idiot who strong armed me off his spot. After a screaming match, he threatened to damage my car if he ever saw it again. I left because A. there was two of them and one of me. and B. hunting is not fun when your at that point. Over those years, I lost a number of spots that were either built upon or became posted and It sucked but I dealt with it.

As I mentioned above, hunting unposted land is not the right thing to do in all areas of the state. But long island is nothing like most areas of NYS.

Also, as I read all these posts saying "your supposed to ask for permission", it bothers me. I follow rules and regulations. I'm ethical with respect to shots I take. I always have a good attitude with respect to sharing the woods with other hunters. I try to do the right thing always. I just get the feeling that the guys who say "ask for permission" think that the guys that say "don;'t" are unethical slobs. Some may be. But I'm not.

Lastly, to 7J. In the short few months that I;ve been checking out this forum, its easy to see that Doc is the type of guy that anyone would be proud to have at their hunting camp. Its a shame you can't see that.

[Jennifer]

Good gravy, 7JEveryday, it's folks like you that run the polite visitors off of internet forums. It actually is possible to disagree and have a debate without being nasty about things. Some of the most educational threads on here are among guys that might disagree yet remain civil. That's all I've got to say about that. Best wishes, all.

[ncountry]

How the heck did I get brought into this totally unrelated topic with my previous post 7j? It is a fact that , in my area and many others, deer #s are down significantly compared to 10 years ago. I cannot speak on yours or others specific hunting areas. I have no idea about the 50s-60s .I have only been deer hunting for 20 years.

Back on topic. Imo , If you are in the wood on a big chunk of state land ,for example, and unknowingly wander off into a private piece that is unposted and meets all the other guidelines then you are not trespassing . To park beside the road and just walk onto a property even if it is not posted should be classified as trespassing. But the law works in strange ways sometimes.

[Doc]

OK, this is getting old, hey folks why can't we just get along..... :-)

I started this shit and I will end it, Thank You for all your responses, this topic in now closed....

Thank You

I apologize to members of this forum for engaging in this ridiculous back and forth nonsense. In an attempt at correcting lies about my reply in this thread, I was drawn into what I consider to be bad forum behavior. I apologize for that and intend to cease discussion with the other individual involved.

[Meat Manager]

I guess these are more lies I am making about the negative attitude you guys have about how hunting sucks now....it is actually the direct quote from bkln in this very thread.

It's interesting to note, that during the '70's, and '80's, finding a place to hunt was easy. In fact, many hunters would hunt non-posted land, and the landowners couldn't have cared less. Hell, we used to hunt Texaco Research Centers property, and they would just stop and ask if you had any luck. Then came the influx, and that was all she wrote. Things definitely changed to the worst down here hunting wise.

I hate to say it, but I do consider myself very lucky to have been alive at a time when there were no barriers and I could walk an explore as much as I wanted, limited only by the number of daylight hours and sometimes not even that. As a kid I used to take all day hikes along the ridge-tops of the valley, and never encounter a single posted sign. I got to see some interesting country, and the only time anyone would ever see me at home was when it was time to eat. The rest of the time I was up on the hill. When I got old enough to hunt, I used to just pick out a chunk of hill and still-hunt until I got tired of walking. That's not so easy to do these days without being turned back by posted signs. In fact it is impossible. Many of today's kids and hunters will never know that kind of freedom.

Doc, I'm so jealous now, I wish I could have a time machine because these days suck as far as public hunting is concerned, at least in my area....Thanks for sharing....

[Meat Manager]

How the heck did I get brought into this totally unrelated topic with my previous post 7j? It is a fact that , in my area and many others, deer #s are down significantly compared to 10 years ago. I cannot speak on yours or others specific hunting areas. I have no idea about the 50s-60s .I have only been deer hunting for 20 years.

Back on topic. Imo , If you are in the wood on a big chunk of state land ,for example, and unknowingly wander off into a private piece that is unposted and meets all the other guidelines then you are not trespassing . To park beside the road and just walk onto a property even if it is not posted should be classified as trespassing. But the law works in strange ways sometimes.

Include some data with your anecdotal report of decreased deer...thats right, you don't have any.

Edited December 13, 2011 by 7J Everyday

[Meat Manager]

Sorry Bkln,

I was thinking about this on the train ride home today and i thought it was worth saying one more thing....

I've been hunting unposted private property in long island for the past 20 years (since I;m 15). In that time, I;ve hunted a minimum of god knows how many spots. 50? 75? And In that time, i was only twice was I asked to leave a spot. If those numbers do not show how acceptable it is to hunt unposted property on LI, I don;t know what is. I'll also add that in one instance where I got kicked off, it was by an avid hunter who claimed to be the caretaker of the property. So I can't even say for sure that he had any right to kick me out. In all likelihood he was just an idiot who strong armed me off his spot. After a screaming match, he threatened to damage my car if he ever saw it again. I left because A. there was two of them and one of me. and B. hunting is not fun when your at that point. Over those years, I lost a number of spots that were either built upon or became posted and It sucked but I dealt with it.

As I mentioned above, hunting unposted land is not the right thing to do in all areas of the state. But long island is nothing like most areas of NYS.

Also, as I read all these posts saying "your supposed to ask for permission", it bothers me. I follow rules and regulations. I'm ethical with respect to shots I take. I always have a good attitude with respect to sharing the woods with other hunters. I try to do the right thing always. I just get the feeling that the guys who say "ask for permission" think that the guys that say "don;'t" are unethical slobs. Some may be. But I'm not.

Lastly, to 7J. In the short few months that I;ve been checking out this forum, its easy to see that Doc is the type of guy that anyone would be proud to have at their hunting camp. Its a shame you can't see that.

Sorry Sportsman, but if you are getting into screaming matches with guys who claim to be the rightful landowners of private land and only leaving because they outnumber you, then you are lacking in ethics. In LI, Syracuse or Olean, it doesn't matter.