New York Crossbow Hunters..

[NFA-ADK]

To use a crossbow you have to have an archery licence. There are different safety issues, such as keeping your fingers away from the rail and to treat a crossbow as a loaded gun when cocked. And yes you do have to practice with the xbows, they drop faster than a compound verticle bow with the same speed rating. I respect your opinions but alot of people have varied ideas that xbows are the same as a gun to be picked up, shoot without practice and then put away until next season......wrong.

And your last sentence is what I am talking about with new hunters, again this is a ref. to NEW hunters and the thinking that they are like a gun is my EXACT point... They are not... Yet new hunters think they can shoot a few rounds and go out hunting with this great new weapon...

PS: 410 FPS on new cross bow's is pretty fast and will only get faster as more people purchase and use them... And that is what newbie hunters will use if they can afford it. What compound bow shoots that fast? NONE: 340 is about max right now as far as I know...

[growalot]

Thanks

[NFA-ADK]

I love how some of you think a X-bow will limit your distance. Granted it is not a gun and the bolts drop like lead, but... You think a newbie hunter is going to buy a slow bow? They will get the fastest longest distance shooting device availible. And they will try it out on long distance shots even though they shouldn't and that is a big concern with newbies... This is the bow they will purchase, not something that can't shoot over 50 yards... They will shoot over 50 yards with out regard IMO...

380FPS

350 fps-380fps States 410...

These bolts do drop a lot compaired to a carbon arrow but they go just as far and much faster now a days... This is what new hunters will be shooting, not your 5 year old cross bow that can not be shot past 5o yards. Funny how the 1st video shows them shooting a long distance shot on the ground? What a shock they are shooting long distance with these X-Bows, I wonder why? Because that is how they plan on using it... If they see a deer laying down at that yardage, I would bet all my weapons they would shoot!!! Practice makes perfect, otherwise why would you consistanly shoot that far.

Doubt you will see too many other bow shooters shooting the longest distance they possibly can, unless they have a cross bow...

Again if you have 3 years hunting big game I say you should be able to use a cross bow during bow season. Otherwise I say let them use it during rifle season untile they have gained some experience with hunting, woodsmanship, and safety wich IMO happens over time...

[XCAL1]

Just a few thoughts..........you have to have a valid archery licence to use a crossbow. You don't let children hunt without training and supervison.....no matter what the weapon of choice. A gun is the most dangerous of hunting weapons due to the extreme range in my opinion. Children hunt at early ages and lack experience, you let them hunt because you give them extensive training and supervision. The crossbow is a one shot deal unless the game is deaf.....most sound like 22 rifles going off. They can be hard to cock and many have to be shot to uncock at the end of the day. The xbow is not new, they date back hundreds of years and were not the choice in battle, by the time you re cocked the crossbow the archer had three arrows in you. I repeat..the only advantage of the crossbow is that is held in a drawn position until fired. The disadvantages are: loud when fired. arrow dropes faster at the same rated speed, very hard to shoot behind you in a tree stand, most have to be discharged to uncock, they are hard to carry afield, Scopes? they have them for verticle bows. The crossbow should be another option for hunters. I have lost sight sight in my right eye forcing me to shoot left handed during archery season. A lot of people young and old have arm strength issues and can't pull back a verticle bow with enough poundage to cleanly kill a big game animal. After putting in 45 years pulling back a bow, I would relish hunting with a xbow during archery season, I use to think I would never get old either.

[growalot]

I love how some of you think a X-bow will limit your distance. Granted it is not a gun and the bolts drop like lead, but... You think a newbie hunter is going to buy a slow bow? They will get the fastest longest distance shooting device availible. And they will try it out on long distance shots even though they shouldn't and that is a big concern with newbies... This is the bow they will purchase, not something that can't shoot over 50 yards... They will shoot over 50 yards with out regard IMO.

Yepp ...those are a few videos I watched this a.m....and I have to agree....I personally know a guy that never wanted to bow hunt..."too much work"...Then went out and had to have a new gadget...took a 60 yrd shot on a 6pt ...got it but it was not a good shot and he had to do a lot of leg work on a 1 lung and gut shot...another one of those..I took it out of the box and was shooting 2in groups at 50yrds in a half hour....I worry more about the older gun hunters wanting more season ...with no instruction than the young ones having to take an archery course...I also know a Virgina woman that took off the top of her thumb while shooting and she was a seasoned xbow user

[SteveB]

Again - if the safety concerns are true, please post the stat's from the crossbow states backing it up.

[WNYBuckHunter]

1) That referance is to new hunters going out and purchasing a crossbow for thier 1st weapon and hunting thier 1st year. May be you should reread my post... If you think they have more experiance and are safer than me OK... That was not a referance to experenced hunters at all... And has nothing to do with HOW I hunt.

"Sorry but I am against using cross bow for all seasons due to safety and new hunters lack of experience and knowledge of weapons." This was in the 2nd pharagraph...

2)I am sorry you have never seen a Yote hunter wearing BO, but some do... Might have been hunting for Bear I am not sure as I was trying to escape the area... DId not stop and ask as they were firing too many rounds and I had feared for my life...

3) Not sure where I said a cross bow hunter will not get enjoyment out of a close hunting encounter, could you point that out.

4) I am sorry you feel I THINK I am above anyone, I do not care how anyone hunts as long as it is legal, ethical, and safe, if that puts me above them in your oppinion so be it. Sorry you feel that way...

My point is this: Young kids are going to try the newest equipment. If cross bow's are allowed during bow season, IMO more kids or people with little hunting and woodsmanship skills will enter the woods with less help from experianced hunters due to the fact that less use a bow in general. If the seasons stayed the same people would be more inclined to try and use a bow for additional time in the woods.

5) How about if you have 3 or more years of experence hunting big game, then you are legally allowed to use a cross bow? (during bow season) THAT would make me feel much safer... And would make me all for Cross bows... JMO

Again this is not about allowing, that is all ready done, this is about safety.

PS: Who ever said I had taken a deer at close range with archery??? News to me... Do you have pics for me? I would love to have them... :-)

Ok there skippy, if you want to play, Im game.

1) That referance is to new hunters going out and purchasing a crossbow for thier 1st weapon and hunting thier 1st year. May be you should reread my post... If you think they have more experiance and are safer than me OK... That was not a referance to experenced hunters at all... And has nothing to do with HOW I hunt.

"Sorry but I am against using cross bow for all seasons due to safety and new hunters lack of experience and knowledge of weapons." This was in the 2nd pharagraph...

Why is safety such a big concern just from crossbows with new hunters? What about guns. bows, etc? Again, as I asked before why do you think crossbow hunters will be any less safety conscious than you?

2)I am sorry you have never seen a Yote hunter wearing BO, but some do... Might have been hunting for Bear I am not sure as I was trying to escape the area... DId not stop and ask as they were firing too many rounds and I had feared for my life...

No, actually, I never have. Why do you say they were firing "too many rounds" and do you run for your life any time someone is shooting in the woods? Sounds like they werent hunting like you do, so you speak negatively of them without knowing what they were even hunting in the first place. Lots of people small game hunt and sometimes shoot more than once to get their quarry.

3) Not sure where I said a cross bow hunter will not get enjoyment out of a close hunting encounter, could you point that out.

Sure thing

"If they keep it the same more will try shooting a bow to get extra time in the woods than would use a compound IMO. Otherwise the yutes will just use a cross bow and never experience the thrill, experience and knowledge of shooting a bow."

Hunting with any archery equipment usually includes close encounters and close quarter kills. Am I wrong?

4) I am sorry you feel I THINK I am above anyone, I do not care how anyone hunts as long as it is legal, ethical, and safe, if that puts me above them in your oppinion so be it. Sorry you feel that way...

My point is this: Young kids are going to try the newest equipment. If cross bow's are allowed during bow season, IMO more kids or people with little hunting and woodsmanship skills will enter the woods with less help from experianced hunters due to the fact that less use a bow in general. If the seasons stayed the same people would be more inclined to try and use a bow for additional time in the woods.

They arent trying the newest equipment now? Bows that shoot 340+ fps, etc etc? What do you care what type of bow they start out with. Crossbows are archery equipment. DEC has made that 100% clear. If you take a good look at what you are saying, you are talking down to anyone that chooses a crossbow. Sorry you cant recognize your own high and mighty attitude.

5) How about if you have 3 or more years of experence hunting big game, then you are legally allowed to use a cross bow? (during bow season) THAT would make me feel much safer... And would make me all for Cross bows... JMO

Again this is not about allowing, that is all ready done, this is about safety..

Like Steve is asking, if safety is a real issue, put up the facts to prove it. Crossbow hunting isnt that new of an activity.

PS: Who ever said I had taken a deer at close range with archery??? News to me... Do you have pics for me? I would love to have them...

Well, I assumed, since you said you bow hunt, that you had killed a deer. You did say you have honed your skills, I could only assume that also meant you had a deer or two under your belt.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Come on grow, you know darn well that you know and know of plenty of people that take bad, or too long of shots with a vertical bow as well. You know plenty of vertical bow guys have cut themselves on broadheads or had other accidents. Whats the point?

Oh, and there are videos out there of vertical bow shooters making long distance shots with their 340+ fps bows too. So what? Does that mean everyone should take 60+ yard shots with their bows in a hunting situation? Just because Joe Pro can do it and hit the X ring in a competition or target shooting situation?

[Larry]

I have a friend who has MS; so I decided to do some research into the cross-bow issue and some of the statements being made. The first statement being made. “A cross-bow is not a bow”. I thought that could be subjective, but there had to be a definition somewhere. I looked up the definition of a cross-bow in the Webster Dictionary and found that a CROSS-BOW IS A BOW!

The next statement being made,” it doesn’t take as much skill to shoot a cross-bow”. What the hell does that mean? Is that supposed to be bad? I would rather see someone with limited practice. Who can shoot a cross-bow well, then the guy who takes out his bow a week before the season, and then wonders why he lost 2 or 3 deer?( it’s ok He’s a bow hunter, also this has been posted on this web site)

These two next statements are really good.” A cross- bow shoots faster than a compound bow”. That’s not true. Just look at the 2012 Mathews catalog they have bows that shoot just as fast on 1/3 the draw weight. This one is a good one.” Cross-bow can shoot 1” group a 100yd’s”. I’m not going to say it can’t be done, but there are some factors that have to be taken into consideration first. The first of these factors is Gravity. A bow or cross-bow with a 400gr. Arrow going 350fps and sighted in for 25yds will drop about 8.7ft at 100yds... If you sight in for 100yds the bow or cross-bow would be useless for anything less than 70yds. Then can you kill anything that far? If you can’t then it doesn’t matter how good the group is. Then there is the wind. An arrow has a big surface area it won’t take much wind to blow it off target. (I used a Sierra 6 ballistics program and a high BC level of .700)

I found that most of the statements made were either not true or only half truths.

My friend is never going to climb into a tree stand again and a draw lock doesn’t work for him. A cross-bow may not work for him but he deserves the opportunity to try one if he wants.

I have to admit I have limited experience with a cross-bow. I have only shot one once and found it to be heavy and cumbersome and noisy. To me it is more of a novelty. I’m not going to put 500 to 800 dollars down on one. The only advantage I can see is that it may be a more stable platform then a bow.

Let’s hope when cross –bows comes to the archery season those wanting to use cross-bows in the archery season will have to take the bow hunters course

Edited February 15, 2012 by Larry

[SteveB]

Spend a little time over to Archery talk and see the number of bow hunters talking about having pins from 60 to 100 yds.

All claim confidence in hitting kill zones consistency at those ranges.

More then a few videos claiming to be kills at those ranges.

[growalot]

Let’s hope when cross –bows comes to the archery season those wanting to use cross-bows in the archery season will have to take the bow hunters course

There you go...all that and you summed up my biggest concern...and why would XBow supporters have a problem with that...If your a gun hunter and want to cross bow hunt.... and a xbow is a bow...then don't whine if you have to take the same course I and every other archer had to take...leave the little... Oh I read and signed the paper crap.... to people that already took the course and are experienced bow hunters...that's all I'm saying...

Also Steve is right...it's a consistent topic of conversation when xbows are brought up...how much farther a guy can shoot compared to a Vbow...you might not like it but it's a fact ...whether it's "ethical" or not it's happening and will be prevalent... No I really don't know a lot of guys that purposely take bad shots...bad shots happen...has happened to me and I don't know anyone that has taken a shot past 50yrds with a Vbow....save one and he was a competitive shooter that took a deer at 80yrds...so he said...Ray Towner..owned an Archery shop

[growalot]

Misread what Steve said...MY Bad...BUT I stand by what I've read and heard guys talking about when discussing Xbows and their longer distance shooting

[NFA-ADK]

WNBuckHunter it's just my OPINION...No facts needed for that. Called a internet forum. And just because I do not kill a deer does not mean I did not sharpen the skills needed to take one... Im done when the name calling starts sorry... GG

[WNYBuckHunter]

What name calling? You made a list of things and I responded. It's called a discussion, and usually when someone makes claims (such as all kinds of safety concerns) they do so because something has caused them to be concerned with it.

My opinion is, that people that claim crossbows are unsafe and they are this and that with no facts or proof to back it up, are just making things up and spreading misinformation. I call them out on it whenever I encounter it.

BTW, I already said I didn't realize you had killed a deer with a bow yet, from the way you were talking, it sounded as if you had. Best of luck to you in getting your first one!

[bubba]

lol I love it. When the first argument came out everyone wanted to call them a crossgun. Now that it is going to invade a precious time they immediately become a bow and an archery class should be included. Well the state does not see it that way. They are incorporating it in the gun class with 15-20 minutes allowed for it. Just another obstacle you hope to throw out there to slow the process. I personally feel safer with someone using one than when ml became popular with an extra tag and every joker bought one at walmart with no clue how to use it and headed for the woods, overloaded and ready to kill deer at 300 yards. No one griped about that. Oh yeah it was not going to invade the sacred time. It is coming so be prepared for it.

[WNYBuckHunter]

I'm sure when it becomes included in archery season, that they will move the curriculum over to the bow class. That's the only thing that makes sense. I have never heard any crossbow supporter say they had any problem with including them in the safety course. That's a new one.

[sweet old bill]

I have a buddy who now shoots a cross bow during the gun season from a pop up blind.

Now for me it sure is not the way to go, at 70 I still can draw and shoot a bow ( both recurve 45lb checkmate or compound at 58 lb bowtech commander.

NOW FOR HIM TO USE IT, he has to setup a blind, have a chair, have a camera tri-pod with a special cross piece to hold the bow, the bow is a pse crossbow, with 9 inch limbs, has a auto cocking with a wheel to crank it back, a 4 power rifle scope, it is a very heavy and time consuming to get ready to hunt. No way you can walk and stalk, and very hard for me to see how you could setup in a tree stand. SO this again limits the crossbow.

But after seeing him shoot out to 30 yards I think I do almost as well. I can fire 5 arrows to his one at targets.

But for him it is god sent as without this he would be another hunter lost to physical / old age.

So if they ask me can the cross bow be included in the archery season I sure will support it, because it may be my next requirement as I god willing I grow older.

[landtracdeerhunter]

The state requires instructors to spend hours of training on archery, but only 15- 20 minutes of class time on crossbow. Alot of time went into that thought process didn't it. Do they break down the firing mech. or explain how each part works? That would eat up 15-20 minutes, by itself. Just don't understand this state sometimes. I'm not trying to slow the process, just worried some of the younger archers walking around with fewer fingers.

Edited February 15, 2012 by landtracdeerhunter

[BigTomsCalls]

The state requires instructors to spend hours of training on archery, but only 15- 20 minutes of class time on crossbow. Alot of time went into that thought process didn't it. Do they break down the firing mech. or explain how each part works? That would eat up 15-20 minutes, by itself. Just don't understand this state sometimes. I'm not trying to slow the process, just worried some of the younger archers walking around with fewer fingers.

The reason the xbow is not tought in the archery class is most of the archery instructer said they would not teach the class if the state made them teach anything about the xbow.

[growalot]

So what your saying is the state allows Volunteer instructors to mandate State policy? Interesting..

Let me just run through this..bare with me..

1. The STATE...introduced xbows into a reg .gun season and a late gun season..muzzle

2.The STATE did not mandate the required archery course for the use of a bow in NYS

3. The STATE did not mandate the required separate permit for the use of a bow in NYS

Now having been a gun hunter for many years in this state before going to archery....

The state assumed I was in need of a 2day course and a certificate before being allowed the privilege of using a piece of archery equipment in NYS

Now if one were to read this and throw out all the emotion involved...It would lead to a logical statement that NYS does not consider x bows to be a piece of archery equipment...thus not belonging in archery season

Now I don't think they should have their cake and eat it too...they are archery equipment and any person wanting to use archery equipment in NYS should have to go through the same hoops I had to go through...all "emotions " aside it is a state law...period

[BigTomsCalls]

Your right "Volunteers" not just volunteers but "Certified Volunteers"!! When the State was told that they wouldn't teach the croosbow the state told them they would take away the certifacation and they said take them!!! These volunteers are one of the most die hard bow hunters in the state thats why they teach the classes. They don't believe that the xbow is archery so they won't teach it. The state had no other choice but to give out that bogus xbow certifacate.

[WNYBuckHunter]

The reason the xbow is not tought in the archery class is most of the archery instructer said they would not teach the class if the state made them teach anything about the xbow.

No, the reason why its not included in the bow class right now is because it is only legal to use in the firearms seasons right now.

Once it is included in archery season, the instructors will be teaching the required curriculum about it, or they wont be teaching the class at all. Just my guess, but its the only logical thing that will happen. The instructors dont rule the roost, DEC does, and any instructor that believes they are irreplaceable is sadly mistaken.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Now if one were to read this and throw out all the emotion involved...It would lead to a logical statement that NYS does not consider x bows to be a piece of archery equipment...thus not belonging in archery season

This is 100% false. Right in the 5 year deer plan, DEC spells it out that they classify crossbows as a form of archery equipment. The current regs were put into place only for the "test period" of last season and this upcoming season, after which, the final crossbow regs will be put into place. If DEC gets what they want, it will be included in archery season, where it belongs. At that point, the crossbow will most likely be added to the bow class and taken out of the gun class.

[growalot]

WNYBH...now you can't say the above statement is 100% false..know matter what your personal feelings are...and taking just that little snip out of the whole post still doesn't allow for making the statement 100% false...I don't recall make such a statement to your observations..thank you

Now if one were to go with your line of thinking and seeing ppl love to compare the introduction of compounds to that of xbows...Did NYS allow the use of compound bows in gun season with out a proper archery mandated course during a "trial" period?...They obviously considered compounds as archery equipment as well...

I ask because personally I'm not up on what they did back then...I would hope one would not presume to say... hey that's "apples to oranges" at this late date...for obviously xbow supporters don't think so...they are the ones to bring it up all the time

[SteveB]

Still waiting for the stat's from the crossbow states showing we should have safety concerns.