Fair Chase ?

[Skillet]

On a side note, this just reinforces my dislike for Jimmy Houston, and other TV outdoor hosts. I don't like any of them, and I think that in general, they do us harm as a group. I love how they all act like such experts, while they have access to such exclusive / expensive hunts & areas. Put any of them out with any of us, on the public land, and small parcels that most of us hunt. I highly doubt they would be killing their 150" bucks in that case.

[ants]

Sneak'n into the zoo tonight ! gonna shoot me a bear after I throw marshmallows to it !!!... I'll post pictures of the mount later!!!!!

300 acres is a different world than 3-5 acres with drugged deer being pushed---DISGUSTING!!!! DISGUSTING!!! and did I mention DISGUSTING!!! how does anyone even try to defend this B.S.

To each his own? B.S>!!!

Edited February 24, 2012 by ants

[hunter49]

Right on Skillet, I say take those guys from Texas & put them with us useing shotguns in the woods without feeders, box stands,& the 400 yd cleared shooting lanes & see what then can do. I would bet they wouldn't pass up 140" waiting for the next bigger one to show up!

[Skillet]

Sneak'n into the zoo tonight ! gonna shoot me a bear after I throw marshmallows to it !!!... I'll post pictures of the mount later!!!!!

300 acres is a different world than 3-5 acres with drugged deer being pushed---DISGUSTING!!!! DISGUSTING!!! and did I mention DISGUSTING!!! how does anyone even try to defend this B.S.

To each his own? B.S>!!!

I'm not defending the stuff in the video. It was sick.

[ants]

Did'nt mean you in particular.. I meant anyone. Sick is right

[sits in trees]

Yeah , right !

every time something like this comes to light we all sit around and say "OH my GOD" thats totally unsportsmanlike!!!. but then alot of us will sit there watching hunting shows with superstar hunters like Waddell, and the dumb blond Lackowski and guy with the funny voice she hunts with shooting monster deer each and every week all year long for decades now, and alot of us sit there saying wooooooo, did you see the buck Tiffany shot on last nights show????????? theres alot of BS in the sport or so called sport of hunting, plain n simple.

[Deerthug]

every time something like this comes to light we all sit around and say "OH my GOD" thats totally unsportsmanlike!!!. but then alot of us will sit there watching hunting shows with superstar hunters like Waddell, and the dumb blond Lackowski and guy with the funny voice she hunts with shooting monster deer each and every week all year long for decades now, and alot of us sit there saying wooooooo, did you see the buck Tiffany shot on last nights show????????? theres alot of BS in the sport or so called sport of hunting, plain n simple.

Tiffany hunts with a guy? Never noticed him. Lol! I think most guys who watch that particular show do so to watch her. At least she's easy on the eyes. Same with Nichol Jones on Driven TV.

But seriously, most of these hunting shows are 30 minute commercials for hunting merchandise and equipment. I don't learn anything from them. It's more entertainment than anything else.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Deerthug

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Have some of you guys been living under a rock?? This video was shot 8 freakin years ago. This video was first brought out by your friends in peta. They might point this one thing out because it was the worst they could find. Now for some reason Qdm is taking a shot at deer farms and high fence hunting. To ant and a few others..To each their own is just what it is!!! Period..You better get ready to see many more high fences is ny alone.. I have had 4 calls in the last 3 weeks from new deer farms and high fence hunting looking to buy my genitics. A guy called today from down near johnstown i believe he said and he is looking to buy 25 or more bred does to put behind high fence for his 2 families. He says he is sick of seeing no deer on his property.. Hence the fence and hence to each his own. Just to let a couple that dont know my deer are sold for breeding stock and making scents. No high fence hunting on my 6 acres fenced in areas.Also the farm in the video is still in operation. The term fair chase

can be used in so many ways i thought i would give some of yas a little something to think about. And just so we are very clear on this i in no way agree with what went on in the video. But i do believe if a person wants to pay to harvest an animal behind fence that is their choice and i believe we live in america with choices... To each their own!!!!!!!!!

"I see this little phrase come up from time to time. What I’m about to write might infuriate some and please others and leave others thinking about where they stand on this little phrase. My thoughts on the phrase “Fair Chase” in a nutshell is basically, has got to be the most dangerous word to outdoor men and women and our pursuits in the wild when it comes to hunting, trapping and fishing. The phrase in my opinion is probably the most responsible for hunting, trapping and fishing rights lost over the years, pitting one outdoorsmen and women against another. Simply put fair chase is basically not just a phrase but an attitude and a tool to justify ones way of doing things, while sacrificing those of another. We see it all the time when issues come up such as the use of cross bows, high fence, hunting with hounds, trapping and the list goes on. The animal rights groups love that little phrase, because they have it figured out, and know those two words are their meal ticket for pushing their agenda. Their agenda, banning all forms of hunting, trapping and fishing, period.

I’ve heard it said many times before, don’t know who the originator of it is but it goes something like this; “in order for a hunt to be fair chase, we would have to hunt with what we came into this world with, naked and our two bare hands.” And that would be true in my opinion. Animals survive with what they were born with, necessary to survive. Man on the other hand were born with a thinking brain, to solve problems to give us an edge. When it comes to hunting, we surely can’t run as fast as most animals, so man thought of ways to do the running for him, spears, bows, traps, guns etc. If we were to take a step back in time with our modern hunting equipment, we most likely would be worshipped on what we had to make our hunting more successful, that edge so to speak. Man has always used his most important weapon, his brain, when it comes to hunting, trapping and fishing. Because that’s our biggest weapon in order to survive and to equal out our physical short comings to the game we pursue.

I’ve heard so many arguments over the years on what was fair chase, things like running coons, cats or coyotes with hounds not being fair chase, or baiting is not a fair chase practice or high fence hunting isn’t real hunting, or trapping isn’t fair chase because the animal doesn’t have a running chance. To all that I say hogwash. Hunting with dogs is more than just turning dogs loose, there’s training, breeding and basically one’s way of life or way of doing things, they have a passion for it and they’ve figured a way to use man’s best friend to aid him in hunting, using the dogs as a tool. Baiting is just another form of hunting, no different in my opinion than placing out doe in heat or sitting on a corn field, your using the animals needs and instincts against them in order to gain an edge, same as just sitting on a ridge where you can see several yards and perched on the ridge with your trusty 300 mag. To reach out and touch one. It wouldn’t make much sense to sit there with a pistol or slug gun, no, we utilize the tools we have, to give us that edge. Now a deer walks up to within 40yds and you have the 300 mag in your lap are you gonna pass up the deer because he’s not 300 yds out, I don’t think so. Same with high fence, some say it’s not sporting or fair chase. Well think about this, a lot of high fence are 100’s and even 1000’s of acres, where the deer roam where ever they will in basically in the same settings as their wild counter parts, just better taken care of. there are quite a few hunters out there that don’t have the luxury of time on their side to enjoy the outdoors the way a lot of us do, their business men and women with busy schedules or locked in a city with no land they know of to hunt on or the time, but yet have a love and a passion to hunt just like the rest of us. I’ve heard it said trapping doesn’t give the animals a sporting chance, well most of that comes from those never doing it, just like I suspect with the other claims of why this or that isn’t fair chase. Trapping involves knowing your target well, well enough to put his foot on a pan or trigger no bigger than say 3”x 3” in order to get caught, you need to know their habits, what makes them tick just like pursuing any other thing like hunting or fishing.

So why condemn something or tactic another uses? Could be a number of reasons , jealousy, greed, or just plain stubbornness because that’s not how I do it. And each time we attack another’s legal way of doing things, we in essence are driving a nail in our own coffin for future use by the anti’s. Take for example your on the front lines in a war, and all the tall guys are getting killed. Everyone gets together and says, lets not use tall guys in this fight, it’ll eliminate anyone getting killed. So they do and go back into battle and now the medium height guys are getting waxed. So they have another meeting and decide, ok lets just use short guys, to prevent any further damage and fatalities. Now the enemy has the advantage of less troops in the ranks and basically over runs the troops and wins the battle. And in essence that’s what we are doing to ourselves when we start acting under the guise of fair chase. We essentially are sacrificing another’s way of doing things in order to preserve our own, but in reality we are destroying ourselves and our numbers in the ranks that allows us to be over run by the opposition..

We may not agree on everyone else’s way of hunting or pursuits, but know this, everyone of us that hunts, traps or fishes has a love and passion for what they do, just as much as the next guy or gal, even if his/her way is different than ours.. Ben Franklin once said; “We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately.” No truer words have been spoken when this country first began, and feel those words hold true for the outdoorsmen/women of today."

[nyantler]

I have to wonder how many of the hunter-heroes that we see on TV actually engage in this kind of hunting. Many of us sit around and amazed over the massive racks that these guys routinely take every week and shower these guys with something near hero-worship. Maybe this video gives a little different perspective on what kinds of hunting tactics may be behind these consistant trophy hunters who pose as hunting experts. Could be these guys are just a different kind of "market hunter" who are catering to a different kind of market.

Is it all just harmless? Well as the guy in the video points out, such footage would make powerful recruiting media for the animal rights people. It's rather easy for someone to paint all hunting with the same broad brush that is being shown here.

I can tell you first hand that this type of thing runs rampant in the world of outdoor TV... not quite as much today as a decade or 3 ago... had to keep advertisers happy if you wanted to continue to have a show... especially in the days before The Outdoor Channel... today with qdm programs and food plots.. it is much easier to get "fair chase" footage for television... and trail cams have made it easier to lock in on good camera shooting areas as well as good bucks... unfortunately, there will always be bad eggs in the basket... just be carefully picking your next hunting show hero... try to remember these hunting shows are ALL about money and recognition... period. Some of these so called hunting guru's kill the best bucks money can buy in the name of outdoor TV... let them loose here in the Adirondacks without their guides, gps, and $1,000 Gator and you might never here from them again.

[ants]

Four seasons--Didnt have time to read your novel....on my way out the door...DISGUSTING VIDEO!!!!... DISGUSTING actions by these "hunters" end of story.. over think it all you want..DISGUSTING!!!

No offense

[ants]

And "sits in trees" is 100% right!!!!

[PostedBoys Gallego]

Can't stop a business making money, we live in America after all... but as a personal choice, I will never hunt a purchased deer or genetically enhanced one. I'm on a mission for real bucks, no matter how small they may seem to trophy hunters.

I love this quote!

"The rich…who are content to buy what they have not the skill to get by their own exertions, these are the real enemies of game" - Theodore Roosevelt

Edited February 25, 2012 by PostedBoys Gallego

[the blur]

would you hunt bear over bait in canada or maine?

go to huntingnet.com, and many guys are crying the deer are not hitting their bait.

[PostedBoys Gallego]

Not sure if directed to me, but no, I would not hunt Bear or any animal over any kind of bait. My goal is to hunt bear on its terms like I do whitetail. I try to learn where the animals forage their natural food sources are. Probably will not get a bear for 10 years but when I do..... I'll be very happy.

Edited February 25, 2012 by PostedBoys Gallego

[G-Man]

four season i took the time to read you post and yes there is and will be a demand for this kind of hunting, the problem is in the way it is presented to the public by the media , resulting in the viewer beliving there is a big buck behind every tree. or how easy hunting is. this give the new hunter false hope and beliefs in what to expect. reallife every day person normal hunting is not like this.. they buy a bunch of advertized crap, go out see squat, and give up the sport or drive themselves/their spouse/family nuts trying to emulate their tv heros. it is not a healthy thing at all. where if the show actually showed the true footage/fences their reality wouldn't be so convoluted.

[pistolp71]

G-Man, that is right. I lived it. A few years ago, I took my wife rifle deer hunting with me in Delaware County. We went out a couple of times and one afternoon a nice healthy 6 pt buck came walking right by us. She had her nice new T/C 7mm-08 and said " I'm not shooting that, it's too small". I was telling her to shoot! She got that from unrealistic hunting shows.

[A Sportsman]

It is comforting to see that most of the people chiming in on this post agree that the video is awful, and aren't too fond, if at all, of the "high fence" thing and all the nonsense we see on TV. When I read what 4-Seasons Whitetail writes, all kinds of thoughts and emotions come to my mind. I could write 100 pages on it. But I'll just try and keep this short.

4 Seasons keeps using the phrase "To each his own". There's the first issue. What is that? To me, it means that everyone's actions are ok if it "works for them" and doesnt harm me directly. This type of "soft" thinking is partially what has degraded the ethics of not only hunting, but our country in general. As responsible people, where are we supposed to draw the line between right and wrong? We need to be able to not only judge peoples actions but also render our opinions. Period. The phrase "to each his own" should not be confused with "don;t tread on me". Maybe 4 Seasons and those who share his opinion are confusing the too.

I can understand how killing animals in a high fenced area may not be "wrong" per se. BUT, it is not hunting. so in my mind, I can't understand why it would scratch the itch of someone who calls himself a hunter. One could raise the question, where do you draw the line? high fence?, baiting?, planting crops for deer?, Using a treestand? I honestly don;t know.

Sadly, I think part of what 4 Seasons says about QDM, and high fences and tinkering with genetics is true. More people are embracing it. And to those of us who learned to hunt the hard way and had to truly earn what we killed, its very bothersome. It flies directly in the face of our hunting tradition.

After its all said and done, and someone shoots a 97 pointer over bait, in a high fence area, with guys pushing the deer around, that hunter then places the shoulder mount in his home, so he can be reminded each and every day of what a joke of a man he is.

[ants]

Well said

[Four Season Whitetail's]

To each his own is very simple for me. The way i see it if is is legal to do then its is nobody elses business what someone else wants to do with their hunting and their life. If they consider that hunting then to each their own. Its not for you or me to make that call. I think its a joke for someone that say has been hunting for ten years or better,calls themselves a hunter and then goes out a drops the hammer on a spike or scrub 4 or 6 point. To me if you are the so called hunter you say you are then go out and find the biggest buck in the woodlot or atleast a mature animal and drop the hammer on him. Can i call that guy a non-hunter?? Hell no..I would not and will not do it but its their right,its legal so to each their own. If a guy wants to put a fence around his 350 acre woodlot and stock it with 200inch genitics then so be it.He owns the land,he pays the taxes and its none of our business what he does with his land. How many have stocked their pond with largemouth bass and then fish that pond?? Are they not fishermen??

[Skillet]

To each his own is very simple for me. The way i see it if is is legal to do then its is nobody elses business what someone else wants to do with their hunting and their life. If they consider that hunting then to each their own. Its not for you or me to make that call. I think its a joke for someone that say has been hunting for ten years or better,calls themselves a hunter and then goes out a drops the hammer on a spike or scrub 4 or 6 point. To me if you are the so called hunter you say you are then go out and find the biggest buck in the woodlot or atleast a mature animal and drop the hammer on him. Can i call that guy a non-hunter?? Hell no..I would not and will not do it but its their right,its legal so to each their own. If a guy wants to put a fence around his 350 acre woodlot and stock it with 200inch genitics then so be it.He owns the land,he pays the taxes and its none of our business what he does with his land. How many have stocked their pond with largemouth bass and then fish that pond?? Are they not fishermen??

I was with you until you knocked the guy shooting the spikes and forkies. I am that guy, and I am definitely a hunter. I consider myself blessed with any deer I take.

[Skillet]

every time something like this comes to light we all sit around and say "OH my GOD" thats totally unsportsmanlike!!!. but then alot of us will sit there watching hunting shows with superstar hunters like Waddell, and the dumb blond Lackowski and guy with the funny voice she hunts with shooting monster deer each and every week all year long for decades now, and alot of us sit there saying wooooooo, did you see the buck Tiffany shot on last nights show????????? theres alot of BS in the sport or so called sport of hunting, plain n simple.

Tiffany is nothing but annoying to me. That cutesy crap gets old real quick. And her husband is no better.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Skillet

[fasteddie]

As far as saying "to each his own" , I call B.S. !

[Ford]

I do not really care if someone wants to shoot their pet deer behind a fence. Just not for me.

[ants]

What happened in this video was against the law .. Right ? Or did I miss something..Why was the Video "evidence"? "To each his own" in this case is beyond B.S.-- DISGUSTING....DISGUSTING...DISGUSTNG and defending it in any way is beyond DISGUSTING... what ever>

The night watchman leaves the zoo at midnight .......To each his own....

[Four Season Whitetail's]

Skillet i think you missed the point and the meaning of what i said.CAN I CALL THAT GUY A NON-HUNTER..HELL NO!!.I would not and will not do it but its their right,its legal so TO EACH THEIR OWN!! Just because i would not do it at this point in my hunting life does not give me the right to tell someone else they cant!! Or call it not hunting!!!