Why Are Wild Turkey Populations Diminishing?

[wolc123]

8 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

I have mixed feelings  on this subject Wolc because,I have called up 2 Packs of Coyotes while Spring Turkey Hunting. Those Coyotes honed right in on my Hen calls. Since,I don't  use Decoys much-- the Coyotes honed in on the source  of the Hen Turkey Notes-- me.

  They work together  and are quiet  while walking closer. The Nearest one appeared 10 yards off my Gun Barrel.  Bead on his Nose. Ripped down my face mask and let him live. That Coyotes eyes got super wide at seeing a Man. Did,I mention,I dont resemble Richard Gere- lol.

 Pack ran off. The 2nd pack on nearing me in a semi circle arc winded me and made a howling racket in sprinting away from me.

  During a Fall Turkey Hunt ,I knew exactly  where a Flock was Roosting. I arrived 90 minutes before Sunrise and stood in the Pitch Dark in the Hardwoods. 2 minutes go by and Yipping and Howling  to high Heaven - 60 yards in front of me-- where the Flock of Turkeys were Roosting! 

 That's right- the Coyotes bedded down right under the Roosted Turkeys! They sprinted off. Did,I mention that,I don't  look like Richard Gere.

  Seriously- all Predators know eachother. We all have our Eyes in the same area-' the front . 

 I personally  think that Coyotes will take every opportunity  to kill all Turkeys. A 20lb + Gobbler would be tougher- but not off limits. A Well timed Wing Strike would definitely  Break the long Muzzle of a Coyote. I have been batted in the Shins many times by those Gobbler Wings. Feels like a Small Man of 150lbs hitting you.

 NY " should" allow the killing of Coyotes that come in to Hen calling like New Jersey does.

Interesting, and I know how you feel.  I was once targeted by a coyote, that I am certain had confused me with a deer.  I was walking up an Adirondack mountain deer trail, was wearing scent-blocking camouflage, had taken a shower with scent-away soap and shampoo, and had treated my boots with Evercalm deer herd scent.  
 

The surprise registered by that yote, when I raised my ML, 15 yards from its planned intercept point, was priceless.  I never saw one bolt away as fast as that one did, when it saw me lift that gun .  I would have let a shot or two rip, with my fast-handling fiber-optic sighted 30/30, but I wasn’t fast enough with that heavy, scoped T/C Omega 50 cal..

One of the first times I ever tried calling turkeys in the fall, a big boar coon came in to my hen call.  He was probably looking for a meal.  I think coons do a lot more harm to turkeys  around my place than the coyotes do.  
 

I am not sure I would support a year round open season on coyotes but I definitely would for coons.  I kill “damaging” coons now, legally, after they start tasting my sweetcorn.  NY state requires that the carcasses be burned or buried, before the regular trapping season opens.  They don’t tell you how deep to I go and the yotes usually dig them up.   It’s been more than 10 years since I killed a coyote.   

Around home, I appreciate the help that the coyotes give me on coon patrol .  They also help keep the deer herd healthy and balanced.   They do that by preying on the weak of the species, mostly smaller fawns and old rutted-out bucks.  
 

The adjacent town, which I must cross twice a weekday to get to and from work, does not allow any hunting.  I’d have a hell of time driving thru there were it not for a big population of coyotes, keeping the deer numbers in check.  
 

A year round coyote season would be good in areas with low deer numbers, but not so hot in areas where deer numbers are high (like wmu 9F & 9A).

 

 

[WNYTRPR]

3 hours ago, wolc123 said:

Some say that coyotes do the turkeys more good than bad, due to the fact that they help control nest predators.  I would be inclined to agree, because I have seen first hand the last three years, how effective they are at controlling raccoons.  
 

Give a coyote a taste of a coon, and it has got to be tough for them to go back to eating turkeys.  They were digging up coon carcasses here, within two days of my burying them 3 ft deep the last 2 years.  By the end of the summers, I didn’t even have to trap coons anymore in my sweetcorn.  The coyotes were keeping them totally eradicated, all in their own. 
 

Thad said, I haven’t seen much turkey sign lately here on the nw corner of wmu 9F, but my mom reported a flock of seven in their backyard, over on the se corner yesterday.

Coyotes do Turkey no good,whatsoever.Coyote don’t enjoy eating coon like you think either .I’ve stacked many many coon carcasses ,only thing ive seen eat them were Turkey buzzards and crows .And the many trappers I talk with ,share the same results .Maybe  your situation was an anomaly .There’s no doubt coyotes do kill Coon ,possum ,ect .But not with any significant eradication.Surely not enough to be real beneficial for Turkey .The only things that will kill off coon in significant numbers are humans ,parvo,and rabies .Coyotes will choose Turkey over coon every time  .

[WNYTRPR]

4 hours ago, The_Real_TCIII said:

Hopefully all the renewed interest in trapping will help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Wait ,did the prices shoot up ?lol

[wolc123]

4 hours ago, WNYTRPR said:

Coyotes do Turkey no good,whatsoever.Coyote don’t enjoy eating coon like you think either .I’ve stacked many many coon carcasses ,only thing ive seen eat them were Turkey buzzards and crows .And the many trappers I talk with ,share the same results .Maybe  your situation was an anomaly .There’s no doubt coyotes do kill Coon ,possum ,ect .But not with any significant eradication.Surely not enough to be real beneficial for Turkey .The only things that will kill off coon in significant numbers are humans ,parvo,and rabies .Coyotes will choose Turkey over coon every time  .

Maybe they don’t hit the coons as hard in other areas, but they sure do seem to like them around here. Two years ago, I trapped and burried 6 coons (4 adult males, 1 adult female, and one young one) in about an acre of sweetcorn. All but the little one were exhumed and eaten by coyotes within a few days.  Last year, I caught just (3) adult male coons and all were dug up in a few days.   
 

The relative absence of females and young coons is a good indication that the coyotes are controlling them on their own.   We have an extra large coyote population out this way, because the next town to the west (Amherst), allows no hunting and is overrun with deer.  That nearly inexhaustible food source attracts plenty of coyotes, and we are just a few miles from the border. 
 

The coyotes also seem to keep the fox numbers down, which probably benefits the turkeys.  The main reason I don’t want a year round coyote season around here, is because I don’t want to hit deer with my vehicle driving back and forth to work thru that non-hunting town.  The coyotes are the main thing preventing that right now.  I dont care much for wild turkeys either though, because they taste like dry cardboard to me.  
 

While I don’t care much about the wild turkeys, if our deer numbers ever dropped to the point that freezer-filling with venison became difficult, then I would be into a year-round coyote season.  With 4 doe permits available around here for all those who want them, for more than 5 years, we are a long way from needing to worry about that.  

Id say the local deer population is just about perfect (our freezer is packed almost full of venison and we have not hit any deer with our 4 vehicles) around here right now, and the coyote is playing just as big, if not a bigger role than the local hunters, in keeping it that way. 
 

The DEC is staying on top of things, and made some major moves last year, to keep that local deer population optimized (early September antlerless season, extra hour of hunting time each day, and Holiday ML season).  It don’t get much better than that.  I have never seen the deer hunting better in NY, than it was last year, and those changes were the main reason for that.  

[WNYTRPR]

16 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Maybe they don’t hit the coons as hard in other areas, but they sure do seem to like them around here. Two years ago, I trapped and burried 6 coons (4 adult males, 1 adult female, and one young one) in about an acre of sweetcorn. All but the little one were exhumed and eaten by coyotes within a few days.  Last year, I caught just (3) adult male coons and all were dug up in a few days.   
 

The relative absence of females and young coons is a good indication that the coyotes are controlling them on their own.   We have an extra large coyote population out this way, because the next town to the west (Amherst), allows no hunting and is overrun with deer.  That nearly inexhaustible food source attracts plenty of coyotes, and we are just a few miles from the border. 
 

The coyotes also seem to keep the fox numbers down, which probably benefits the turkeys.  The main reason I don’t want a year round coyote season around here, is because I don’t want to hit deer with my vehicle driving back and forth to work thru that non-hunting town.  The coyotes are the main thing preventing that right now.  I dont care much for wild turkeys either though, because they taste like dry cardboard to me.  
 

While I don’t care much about the wild turkeys, if our deer numbers ever dropped to the point that freezer-filling with venison became difficult, then I would be into a year-round coyote season.  With 4 doe permits available around here for all those who want them, for more than 5 years, we are a long way from needing to worry about that.  

Id say the local deer population is just about perfect (our freezer is packed almost full of venison and we have not hit any deer with our 4 vehicles) around here right now, and the coyote is playing just as big, if not a bigger role than the local hunters, in keeping it that way. 
 

The DEC is staying on top of things, and made some major moves last year, to keep that local deer population optimized (early September antlerless season, extra hour of hunting time each day, and Holiday ML season).  It don’t get much better than that.  I have never seen the deer hunting better in NY, than it was last year, and those changes were the main reason for that.  

I’ll just say I agree with just about nothing lol.I do agree that coyotes are a big predator to fox .And while many states have lost fox due to coyotes  ,NY at least in the Western region,still has a good population  ,along with coyotes .

[wolc123]

36 minutes ago, WNYTRPR said:

I’ll just say I agree with just about nothing lol.I do agree that coyotes are a big predator to fox .And while many states have lost fox due to coyotes  ,NY at least in the Western region,still has a good population  ,along with coyotes .

Do you agree that fox are a wild turkey nest predator ? If so, then maybe the coyotes do at least a little good for the turkeys, don’t you think ?  
 

I use to dislike wild turkeys, more than I do now, when I used to see them in my fieldcorn a lot more.  Since then, I learned that wild turkeys don’t bother with fieldcorn at all, unless coons nock it down for them.  Take out the coons, and the turkeys won’t touch the corn.  They are a fat lazy bird, unwilling to get it down from the stalks. 
 

I had to put in a lot more acres corn, to get it to last thru late ML season, before I started trapping the coons in the summer.  Deer, for which I intend the fieldcorn, are very efficient users of it.   Coons are the worst when it comes to that.  Thankfully, they are the easiest furbearer that I know of to trap.    

[WNYTRPR]

21 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

Do you agree that fox are a wild turkey nest predator ? If so, then maybe the coyotes do at least a little good for the turkeys, don’t you think ?  
 

I use to dislike wild turkeys, more than I do now, when I used to see them in my fieldcorn a lot more.  Since then, I learned that wild turkeys don’t bother with fieldcorn at all, unless coons nock it down for them.  Take out the coons, and the turkeys won’t touch the corn.  They are a fat lazy bird, unwilling to get it down from the stalks. 
 

I had to put in a lot more acres corn, to get it to last thru late ML season, before I started trapping the coons in the summer.  Deer, for which I intend the fieldcorn, are very efficient users of it.   Coons are the worst when it comes to that.  Thankfully, they are the easiest furbearer that I know of to trap.    

Yes ,fox are definitely a  predator to Turkey obviously .Coyote are still the ultimate predator though .Sparing a coyotes life for any reason makes no sense .You’re just doing most animals/birds an injustice by doing so LOL.

One thing we have more than the past also are birds of prey  .Turkeys have it tough no doubt .

 

[wolc123]

2 minutes ago, WNYTRPR said:

Yes ,fox are definitely a  predator to Turkey obviously .Coyote are still the ultimate predator though .Sparing a coyotes life for any reason makes no sense .You’re just doing most animals/birds an injustice by doing so LOL.

One thing we have more than the past also are birds of prey  .Turkeys have it tough no doubt .

 

What if there was no other means of controlling the deer population, like is the case in the town of Amherst NY ? Imagine having to drive thru that town every day to get to work.  
 

I could take the long way around, but that would take more gas, which is getting very expensive.  I prefer to keep taking the shortest route, thru a town with a well-balanced deer population, thanks to the coyote.  

[WNYTRPR]

13 minutes ago, wolc123 said:

What if there was no other means of controlling the deer population, like is the case in the town of Amherst NY ? Imagine having to drive thru that town every day to get to work.  
 

I could take the long way around, but that would take more gas, which is getting very expensive.  I prefer to keep taking the shortest route, thru a town with a well-balanced deer population, thanks to the coyote.  

I used to drive through Amherst everyday for years .Never rerouted myself to avoid the deer though .It’s not any worse than West Seneca ,I drive through there everyday .Not sure if you’re just trolling me now but ,the limited deer population you may be driving through is not from Coyotes alone ,if at all .Most likely from the sharpshooters LOL .

[WNYTRPR]

2 minutes ago, blackbeltbill said:

Been hunting in New Jersey since 1994. I live 15 miles from the border. Black Bears cannot be hunted. Huge numbers of Black Bears in north Jersey..

   I see Black Bears as superbTurkey Nest Predators.  Turkey numbers are way down in North Jersey. 

They are oversize coon lol 

[jperch]

14 hours ago, Uncle Nicky said:

Ask 100 hunters, you will get 100 answers.

I've seen pheasant & grouse basically disappear during my stay on the planet called Earth.

Fall turkey hunting probably has the LEAST impact on turkey numbers, but that's where everyone points the finger first. I'm convinced most fall turkeys are killed by guys that are archery hunting for deer & sling an opportunistic arrow out of boredom, and not by dedicated fall turkey hunters. 

Predators, ESPECIALLY avian predators, are probably the biggest culprits. But it seems like trapping keeps the 4 legged predators in check, or at least helps somewhat. 

Then there is terrain changes, farming practices, suburban sprawl, climate changes, maybe some sort of avian diseases that haven't been discovered yet......

I have to agree about avian predators.  Fifty years ago (gasp!) there simply were a lot less birds of all kinds, probably due to the use of DDT.  Pheasants and rabbits were common and often seen in fields.  Now there seems to be hawks and other predatory birds atop every other telephone pole in the country.  That's a slight exaggeration of course but back then you rarely saw one.  Pheasants, which were prone to be out in the open, became easy targets.  Of course we also have a lot more coyotes now and from what I've seen fishers are effective and their numbers are growing.  Things change, they always do. 

[WNYTRPR]

Just to give a small idea on what turkeys are up against I’ll use my buddy’s property (one of my deer hunting properties)for example (25)acres.

Last year alone I caught 45 possum(crazy amount I didn’t even think was possible )17 coon,14 red fox ,4 coyotes ,2 skunks and 1 mink .No season on fisher but had a few on cams as well there .

There are numerous birds of prey .Redtail and Owl specifically.

Add in the local stray cat population too.

Ive watched a hen nest in the same spot in a hedgerow for a few years now there .The spot is as thick as you can get.I’ll be interested to see what last years and this years all out trapping assault will do .This was a planned experiment for myself .I will say ,the hen has had a good survival rate the last few years .

Ill add ,I’ve been trapping this block for the last 20 years ,not as hard as last year and this year ,but it has had a large flock of Turkey for awhile now .20-30 birds .

Edited February 14, 2022 by WNYTRPR

[G-Man]

Coon raiding nests and lack of good nesting habitat is a huge factor along with bad spring weather.  I alway set traps for a week or two for coon .  Removing them truly helps, I don't have a large coyote population so that's a small factor..  coon..way to many friend caught 43 in a week here few years ago

[Kmartinson]

On 2/7/2022 at 6:22 PM, blackbeltbill said:

No Way.. Spring Bag Limit is perfect at 2 Gobblers. 

  You may also have forgotten  or did not know that in the Summer of 2014- the Fall Turkey Season in large zones 3 +4 was reduced  in 3 ways. The Fall Season was reduced from 6 weeks to 2 weeks, the Fall bag limit was reduced from 2 Turkeys to 1 Turkey, and 3- the opening date of October  1st was  moved way back to later October.  I believe  October 19 this past Fall of 2021.

So you can see- 7 years have passed to raise Turkey Population  levels as was the original  intention. No more steps are necessary. 

But I thought this post was about declining numbers.... so it didn't work?

[Gobbler Chaser]

Yea after not seeing a single bird last bow or gun deer season and not seeing any turkey tracks in the snow last couple months I pretty much plan on starting spring projects around my property early this spring. Terrible around here in lower Ulster. 

[G-Man]

Birds here were looking very ragged, hard moved from trees in weeks , snow depth and extreme cold. Thankfully we had a big thaw that opened some fields , and another thaw next 2 days should let them be able to get to food..  hardest winter here in years.

[coonhunter]

Yup, I have seen more turkeys in the last few days than I have seen in a month or more.

[Gobbler Chaser]

On 2/20/2022 at 2:16 PM, blackbeltbill said:

Hopefully you will hear more Gobblers come early April when they start to open up.

I'm hoping the warm weather will shake things up. I will have my ears open even with the lack of any other turkey evidence.

[WNYTRPR]

Study was conducted in Kentucky 

Edited February 22, 2022 by WNYTRPR

[WNYTRPR]

South Dakota knows what their doing .They’re not ran by a bunch of nuts like NY.They recognize trapping as a great conservation tool.And their governor is the best in the country .

Edited February 22, 2022 by WNYTRPR

[wolc123]

Note that the raccoon is the number one nest predator in nearly all of the studies.  They may be legally taken year round in NY, if they are “damaging”.  
 

They are also the easiest furbearer there is to trap.  All you got to do is plant s few rows of sweetcorn in a garden, and you will get “damage”, as soon as it starts making ears. 
 

Then get yourself some box traps and bait them with peanut butter coated marshmallows, and you will get coons.  Dog-proofs with s little cat food poured in the bottom work well also, as do foothold traps placed under shallow water with the pan wrapped in tin-foil. 
 

After you catch them, kill them and bury them (until regular trapping season opens).  After that, you can just throw them out for the buzzards, since the hides are worthless.