Antler Restrictions - What are your thoughts?

[5.9cummins]

I am with Dave, Culver and Center Punch.

Its about the right to choose your deer. I used to be all for AR when i was in college - i could afford to be selfish and it didn't matter. That was before my wife and  kids.

This year I held out during archery and ate my tags, rifle rolls around and i whacked a couple on DMAPs and due to my piss poor shooting skills came up empty on a couple more and found myself staring at a 1.5yr old 4pt with 30 minutes legal shooting light left.

Now normally i wouldnt have an issue eating another tag except that i got three little girls that burn through venison like you would'nt believe. Bought a 1/4 cow on top of 4 deer in the freezer and i will be out of meet within two weeks.

I am at the point now that i am not sure what i will pass if anything this coming season.

I don't do anything really besides hunt and fish outside of family and work. Use to have all sorts of toys - sleds, mud truck, diesel etc. etc. All that is gone. I don't make a ton of money (not that i am going to starve if i don't hunt) but i have come to the conclusion that hunting gives me the most. Its not just about material possessions and flushing money down the drain. I get stuff back i.e. entertainment, knowledge, exercise, time with the family (teaching lessons), time reflecting on life / God, and FOOD. And the tighter things get around my house the less i care about what its wearing on its head and the more i care about what its carrying on its back.

Just my 2 cents

[nyantler]

First of all the taste of meat has noting to do with AR's.. secondly, that would be is 3-5 years to see the program come to fruition, there will still be plenty of bucks out there to shoot during those years... especially if it is a 3 on a side AR... You just might have to actually hunt more than just opening day to get one...Nobody is taking away 3-5 years of anyones hunting... just managing what can be taken. And yes maybe some of the immature hunters out there may take there anger out by doing something stupid like just shooting as many young bucks as possible.. but like they say.. you can't change stupid.

First I do hunt more than one day. I hunt bow most of the season and a lot of gun also. And you didn't answer the question which tastes better a young deer or an older one. If you hunt for trophies the meet will not be as good. May look good on the wall but doesn't do much for the palate . I should have said taking 3-5 years of me making the decision on what type of buck to shoot. It's funny how angry you get when we think the gov't will take away our guns, but you have no problem with them taking away our hunting decisions as what to shoot or not shoot. If they restrict any more of our hunting privileges we will have no need for guns because there will be nothing to hunt. Just think how much the hunter success rate will drop.

Dave

Maybe it's just me Dave... but you seem to get very defensive when I make a general statement and somehow you think I am talking about you... I never said anything about you hunting only opening day... and I have.. what you call... "trophy" hunted for nearly 17 years and have never killed a big buck that didn't taste great... and I never get angry... I get passionate maybe but never angry over a forum post... what you may not understand is that owning a gun is a right.. hunting is a priviledge not a right... it is not your right to shoot whatever you want.. it is a priviledge given to you by the powers to be.. based on how and what they think needs to be done to control animal populations, ensure hunter safety, etc. If they decide that AR's are needed, wanted, or whatever then your priviledges will change... they aren't taking a right away from you.. they are altering the plan to suit the needs of conservation in their eyes... you don't get to make any decisions of what, where, when or how you can shoot anything if the DEC doesn't say you can... by the way you might have missed where i said I am not necessarily for mandated AR's... I am more for pushing voluntary AR... but yes I do like the idea of passing on young bucks (they taste gamey to me)

[Four Season Whitetail's]

I dont get it.Years ago you couldnt get a doe tag unless you had 3 hunters. Now you only need one. Things change,laws change,deer numbers change.DEC will do whatever they see fit and we will live with what they say..No Choice!!! Shoot a little one and skin it in the woods if thats whats gunna get you through and make you feel better but either way beat this as much as you like. You still will have..NO Choice!!!

[Dave]

First of all the taste of meat has noting to do with AR's.. secondly, that would be is 3-5 years to see the program come to fruition, there will still be plenty of bucks out there to shoot during those years... especially if it is a 3 on a side AR... You just might have to actually hunt more than just opening day to get one...Nobody is taking away 3-5 years of anyones hunting... just managing what can be taken. And yes maybe some of the immature hunters out there may take there anger out by doing something stupid like just shooting as many young bucks as possible.. but like they say.. you can't change stupid.

First I do hunt more than one day. I hunt bow most of the season and a lot of gun also. And you didn't answer the question which tastes better a young deer or an older one. If you hunt for trophies the meet will not be as good. May look good on the wall but doesn't do much for the palate . I should have said taking 3-5 years of me making the decision on what type of buck to shoot. It's funny how angry you get when we think the gov't will take away our guns, but you have no problem with them taking away our hunting decisions as what to shoot or not shoot. If they restrict any more of our hunting privileges we will have no need for guns because there will be nothing to hunt. Just think how much the hunter success rate will drop.

Dave

Maybe it's just me Dave... but you seem to get very defensive when I make a general statement and somehow you think I am talking about you... I never said anything about you hunting only opening day... and I have.. what you call... "trophy" hunted for nearly 17 years and have never killed a big buck that didn't taste great... and I never get angry... I get passionate maybe but never angry over a forum post... what you may not understand is that owning a gun is a right.. hunting is a priviledge not a right... it is not your right to shoot whatever you want.. it is a priviledge given to you by the powers to be.. based on how and what they think needs to be done to control animal populations, ensure hunter safety, etc. If they decide that AR's are needed, wanted, or whatever then your priviledges will change... they aren't taking a right away from you.. they are altering the plan to suit the needs of conservation in their eyes... you don't get to make any decisions of what, where, when or how you can shoot anything if the DEC doesn't say you can... by the way you might have missed where i said I am not necessarily for mandated AR's... I am more for pushing voluntary AR... but yes I do like the idea of passing on young bucks (they taste gamey to me)

It must be you Joe, I am not getting defensive about anything I get passionate it's just my humble opinion. Just responding to the thread just like you. I think I heard some where,  they were trying to make hunting a right . Hope they vote it through. You say if they decide The DEC, this is not passed over night there is a long procees involved but basically being pushed by Sportsman's clubs and Federations to get what they want. Though I am not for AR I do practice it voluntary , the difference is it's my choice not the DEC's .Joe correct me if I am wrong but when you responded you did say that " you just might have to hunt more than just one day to get one" you did say that! Most hunters think the opposite that younger deer taste better, but then as you have told us over and over and over again you are not like most hunters, You are Tonto Joe the Big Buck Slayer.

Dave

[Geno C]

i think ARs for now should be voluntary... It should not be mandatory. thats just my OPINION. The funny part of the topic is i guarantee you there is a fairly large number of guys here that already practice ARs even those against it, however its the options really. Having the option of taking a smaller buck i think is what most have the problem with. I think we would all like to think we have some options in the woods and that AR is not just another rules to abide by as it takes an option away from you.

like i said, from what i have been reading on this site from the guys here it really sounds like a good 85% of the individuals here pass on smaller deer ANYWAY. so what is the difference if you have AR implemented or not? Aside from having the option of taking a smaller deer. Im not for ARs really but i pass on smaller deer all day, go figure lol

so i want to know why the guys who opt for passing on smaller deer anyways are not up for AR? im just curious..

[Culvercreek hunt club]

It is all about choice, Geno. I close to pass....my father chooses not to. At 68....if he is happy with that 4 point I just let go by...more power to him....or any one that takes it. In theareas I hunt the hunting is great. I don't feel my decissions on how I choose to hunt should be forced on anyone else. I shouldn't be dictating their definition of a fulfilling experience. Just my view

[5.9cummins]

i think ARs for now should be voluntary... It should not be mandatory. thats just my OPINION. The funny part of the topic is i guarantee you there is a fairly large number of guys here that already practice ARs even those against it, however its the options really. Having the option of taking a smaller buck i think is what most have the problem with. I think we would all like to think we have some options in the woods and that AR is not just another rules to abide by as it takes an option away from you.

like i said, from what i have been reading on this site from the guys here it really sounds like a good 85% of the individuals here pass on smaller deer ANYWAY. so what is the difference if you have AR implemented or not? Aside from having the option of taking a smaller deer. Im not for ARs really but i pass on smaller deer all day, go figure lol

so i want to know why the guys who opt for passing on smaller deer anyways are not up for AR? im just curious..

Its the option.

There are enough damn rules and laws. I commend anyone who will pass a young deer i think it will only improve the age structure and quality of hunting if we pass the little guys.

I want the freedom to make the choices for myself not have them dictated to me.

 

[steve863]

Many hunters around the state can only wish that they hunted in locations where they get to see deer of any type each and every day they hunt.  Still many places where you can go for days without seeing a hair.  These hunters can't be to choosey if they want to fill a tag and put at least a little venison in the freezer.  I think many people here tend to forget this fact.

[Geno C]

after reading some of those comments thats what i figured... im with you guys. i always pass on younger deer but i am not really for the whole AR thing. If the DEC implemented that structure state wide i would have some things to say but i would go about the deer woods the same. I pass on them anyway and if im pressed to fill the freezer i have no problem taking a doe what so ever. infact i will take a doe every chance i can to get that meet in the freezer and also do my part in doe management. I dont worry tomuch about not having meet in the freezer. I have been pretty lucky taking a deer or 2 each year. Last year i passed on atleast 10 smaller bucks and plenty of does and i was able to harvest a nice 7point and 8 point and also a huge doe. For the guys who do not have the chance to be choosy and wish to take whatever they see, well to each is own. however i do not feel for the guys who take advantage of that instance. Case in point guys who shoot anything and reuse tags or do not tag deer altogether, so im sure there are cases where not being choosy is just fine and im sure there are those who take some serious advantage of that...

[Doc]

so i want to know why the guys who opt for passing on smaller deer anyways are not up for AR? im just curious..

My only concern is how it may aggravate the existing decline of hunters. I know there is significant resistance to AR, and many of these people are very serious in there opposition. Depending on herd conditions in their area, they may be very justified in their concern.

There is also a fear that some of the AR requirements may be twisted into beam spread instead of antler tip count, which I believe may result in a lot of mistaken measurement guesses and some rather nice deer lying abandoned in the woods. Deer don't always pose for you with a face-on stance.

Other than those two points, ARs will not impact my hunting at all. But then our area has a lot of good bucks, and we have always had ample numbers of antlerless permits to ensure venison in the freezer. I have to wonder about those guys in areas that don't have it quite as good as I do. It sure would be interesting to hunt an area where permits were denied, and somebody was telling me that any buck that I see are likely to be illegal to harvest. If I am not allowed to harvest anything, I guess I probably would not be buying a license. Maybe I would take up bowling.....lol.

[steve863]

For the guys who do not have the chance to be choosy and wish to take whatever they see, well to each is own. however i do not feel for the guys who take advantage of that instance. Case in point guys who shoot anything and reuse tags or do not tag deer altogether, so im sure there are cases where not being choosy is just fine and im sure there are those who take some serious advantage of that...

Hmmm, I'm not following here?  Are you saying that those who are not choosey are more likely to do illegal acts like reusing tags or not tagging deer?  I think stunts like that can be committed by those who aren't choosey along with those that are just the same.  i.e seeing a bigger and better buck after you have already taken a smaller one.  We are talking about people hunting within the law here, so I think implying that one side is more likely to commit illegal acts will take us down even more slippery slopes.

[nyantler]

Absolutely right Steve.. we can't create management decisions around those that might try to buck the system and or do something illegal... that will always happen whether the laws are good or bad... some guys will just never go by the rules. management decisions should be made with benefit to the animal as the main priority... I do understand the need for the DEC and government to maintain a certain revenue level to be affect... and there is certainly a fine line between the right management decisions and keeping hunters happy... my bitch would be that hunters tend to care more about how management laws impact there hunting and less about how it may or may not benefit the animal. Those who complain the most about not having quanity and quality deer in their area are usually the ones that are against any type of deer management and want to continue doing the same things that made that area the bad hunting area it is.

[Geno C]

For the guys who do not have the chance to be choosy and wish to take whatever they see, well to each is own. however i do not feel for the guys who take advantage of that instance. Case in point guys who shoot anything and reuse tags or do not tag deer altogether, so im sure there are cases where not being choosy is just fine and im sure there are those who take some serious advantage of that...

Hmmm, I'm not following here?  Are you saying that those who are not choosey are more likely to do illegal acts like reusing tags or not tagging deer?  I think stunts like that can be committed by those who aren't choosey along with those that are just the same.  i.e seeing a bigger and better buck after you have already taken a smaller one.  We are talking about people hunting within the law here, so I think implying that one side is more likely to commit illegal acts will take us down even more slippery slopes.

im absolutely sure it can go either way. i was not trying to narrow it down to one side per say. i was on a little break from work and might not have took the time to clarify that 100% but im sure you get my point...

[erussell]

Another thing is, if more than half of the people who shoot deer in NY do not report there deer than what makes us think they will shoot three to a side?

[Doc]

Just a word or two about the need for hunter satisfaction. The DEC has only one tool for adjusting herd sizes and that is the hunter. If you lose the hunter, you lose the ability to manage deer. So absolutely, hunter satisfaction had better play a part in any process or thinking that involves hunting rules and regulations.

[Four Season Whitetail's]

We are getting less hunters either way so if the population gets to large..They will just give more tags to us that are still in the game!!

[nyantler]

Just a word or two about the need for hunter satisfaction. The DEC has only one tool for adjusting herd sizes and that is the hunter. If you lose the hunter, you lose the ability to manage deer. So absolutely, hunter satisfaction had better play a part in any process or thinking that involves hunting rules and regulations.

If you lose every hunter then you have no deer management... that just will not ever happen...there will always be a percentage of hunters that will hunt no matter what... and if resident hunter numbers diminish too far... surrounding non-residents will be encouraged to pick up the slack with reduced license fees and other insentives... yes it is true that hunter satifaction is part of the equation, but hunter selfishness should not be...

[Dave]

Just a word or two about the need for hunter satisfaction. The DEC has only one tool for adjusting herd sizes and that is the hunter. If you lose the hunter, you lose the ability to manage deer. So absolutely, hunter satisfaction had better play a part in any process or thinking that involves hunting rules and regulations.

If you lose every hunter then you have no deer management... that just will not ever happen...there will always be a percentage of hunters that will hunt no matter what... and if resident hunter numbers diminish too far... surrounding non-residents will be encouraged to pick up the slack with reduced license fees and other insentives... yes it is true that hunter satifaction is part of the equation, but hunter selfishness should not be...

Reduced license fees in NY for non residents are you out of your mind??? Maybe if they gave the NY hunters reduced fees more people would hunt.

Dave

[Geno C]

There is always a flip side to every coin...

the hunter should be happy with the decisions made by the DEC maybe not all of them but most things are out of our hands and the deer herd is definitely of top concern so both statements made by Doc and joe are true... I know the hunter number are kind of on the decline but i never seem to see the difference out here on the island... seems like everyone hunts out here

[Dave]

There is always a flip side to every coin...

the hunter should be happy with the decisions made by the DEC maybe not all of them but most things are out of our hands and the deer herd is definitely of top concern so both statements made by Doc and joe are true... I know the hunter number are kind of on the decline but i never seem to see the difference out here on the island... seems like everyone hunts out here

I live on the Island and if I had a place to deer hunt I would hunt too. But I don't so I have to drive 3hrs up to my place to hunt, I am not complaining I love it up state.

Dave

[steve863]

I can't speak for Long Island, but the areas I have hunted upstate have definitely had a decline in hunter numbers over the years I have hunted.  Day and night difference to how it was in the late 70's when I started.  The reasons for the decline are many, least of which is game laws in my opinion, although I can see AR's having a very negative effect for many hunters who have only a few weekends to hunt, which in reality is a good MANY hunters out there.  The sport has become something totally different than it once was.  Way too much competition in this sport right now, with less private land access.  Everyone thinks the guy on the next property is a poacher, criminal, etc.  It has become a very selfish game, that is for darned sure.

[Gthphtm]

I did not read the whole thread ,these are just me observations for the last 6 years on my property in area 4P,And I do have small food plots spread through  my property, 6 years ago at least 6 to 10 does various ages walking on or threw the property +1 to 2 bucks hanging around,That year a lot of doe permits were handed out and a lot of deer were shot including what must have been the great grandmother of all the deer in the area one of the largest does I have ever seen around here.5 to 3 years the numbers declined to about 6 does and 1 buck.2 years ago was a good year for bucks I had 4 that stayed on the property until the rut.Last year a good number of doe permits have been given out and there weer many hunters in the area and a lot of deer were shot bucks and does.This year all I am seeing,During the entire winter 2 does a little over a year old and 1 young one each,This spring and summer 1 of the older does with a one just born,and here young one from last year.And not 1 buck yet this year.I think the should go to 1 Buck per year,per Hunter and back to the way it was years ago with 2 to 3 people on a party permit for does.And I do have farm land around me,so it is not that the deer are starving to death.       

[Dave]

I can't speak for Long Island, but the areas I have hunted upstate have definitely had a decline in hunter numbers over the years I have hunted.  Day and night difference to how it was in the late 70's when I started.  The reasons for the decline are many, least of which is game laws in my opinion, although I can see AR's having a very negative effect for many hunters who have only a few weekends to hunt, which in reality is a good MANY hunters out there.  The sport has become something totally different than it once was.  Way too much competition in this sport right now, with less private land access.  Everyone thinks the guy on the next property is a poacher, criminal, etc.  It has become a very selfish game, that is for darned sure.

Steve I must admit I totally agree, things have changed and not for the better. And AR will make it worse.

Dave

[Four Season Whitetail's]

If a guy goes fishing for say walleye and the size limit is 15in and you only catch 12in you have to throw them back.Guess what.. the state just told you what you could keep.They dont care if you only fish a weekend or two.AR is no different.Will you go fishing again and hope for a keeper...you bet you will.We all do and we all will.Same thing with deer.You will keep going untill you get a keeper!!!!

[steve863]

If a guy goes fishing for say walleye and the size limit is 15in and you only catch 12in you have to throw them back.Guess what.. the state just told you what you could keep.They dont care if you only fish a weekend or two.AR is no different.Will you go fishing again and hope for a keeper...you bet you will.We all do and we all will.Same thing with deer.You will keep going untill you get a keeper!!!!

 

I don't buy this.  You probably catch your walleye in public waters, while the majority of hunters still prefer to hunt private land for various reasons, which if you didn't notice is getting harder to come by OR costing hunters more and more to have access to.  Whether you own it or lease it, it costs WAY more money than catching your walleye in public waters.  There lies the difference.  People won't be wasting their time and money on hunting if there is very little that is legal for them to shoot.