Antler Restrictions - What are your thoughts?

[TheHunter]

Sweet... 2007 data, good job

• WMUs 3H and 3K: 77% of respondents said the program should continue, 14% said it should not continue, 9% had no opinion.
   
• WMUs 3C and 3J: 60% of respondents said the program should continue, 29% said it should not continue, 11% had no opinion.
  
•  
  Stop skewing the truth, majority support it and AR works in MY WMU, based on FACT, end of story.
  

[Doewhacker]

See, the DEC could stop all of this bickering and just have people take a 5 or 10 question poll when they buy their license each year. They could ask everyone the same set of questions each year and change up what questions are asked from year to year. That would be the one and only way that they could get a true feeling for how the hunting community really feels about certain subjects. If done correctly, all of the data could be broken down by WMU that the people live in and many other ways.

I agree but when does science go out the window and opinions take over.

[Doewhacker]

Sweet... 2007 data, good job

   

• 
   
• WMUs 3H and 3K: 77% of respondents said the program should continue, 14% said it should not continue, 9% had no opinion.
   
• WMUs 3C and 3J: 60% of respondents said the program should continue, 29% said it should not continue, 11% had no opinion.
   
• 
  Stop skewing the truth, majority support it and AR works in MY WMU, based on FACT, end of story.
  

52% want it to continue..not 77% , again I am not skewing anything, maybe you are having problems interpeting the data I provided. Maybe your canvasing of the guys you know isn't accurate? nah thats right the 29 guys you know represent the whole area.

[TheHunter]

Science that if you allow a 1.5 to survive he will result in a 2.5, have racks, be a bigger deer, and be more mature and smarter the following year?  AR allows 1.5's in our WMU's to survive.  Thats fact and science, not opinion.  The non-sense you spew is opionion.

[Doewhacker]

Science that if you allow a 1.5 to survive he will result in a 2.5, have racks, be a bigger deer, and be more mature and smarter the following year?  AR allows 1.5's in our WMU's to survive.  Thats fact and science, not opinion.  The non-sense you spew is opionion.

Non-sense? it is all data from the DEC.

[TheHunter]

52% want it to continue..not 77% , again I am not skewing anything, maybe you are having problems interpeting the data I provided. Maybe your canvasing of the guys you know isn't accurate? nah thats right the 29 guys you represent the whole area.

Wow, maybe you having problems...

Southeastern New York hunters: 63% support, 26% oppose, 11% no opinion  - 52 is NORTHERN, NOT MY WMU, NOT WHERE I HUNT, NOT WHAT I EVER REFERECED NOR WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

77 % of those in WMU 3K and 3H Support the Continuation of the program.

Stop skewing the TRUTH.

[WNYBuckHunter]

See, the DEC could stop all of this bickering and just have people take a 5 or 10 question poll when they buy their license each year. They could ask everyone the same set of questions each year and change up what questions are asked from year to year. That would be the one and only way that they could get a true feeling for how the hunting community really feels about certain subjects. If done correctly, all of the data could be broken down by WMU that the people live in and many other ways.

I agree but when does science go out the window and opinions take over.

Im not saying that they should take the poll data and directly use it to make law, but what the people want should be taken into consideration. I just said that they could stop the bickering by asking the same exact question of everyone that hunts, not just 500 or less people.

[Doewhacker]

"Indeed, more than one-half (52.1%) consistently believed (over all the years for which we had data) that the pilot program should be continued..."

This is only the WMU's that have AR's. I didn't just pull these numbers out of a dead deer's ass.

"Wow, maybe you having problems"

slow down you are missing key strokes..lol

WNY, I agree, they do need a survey at POS, it would make arguments alot more concrete. ;D

[WNYBuckHunter]

Not just arguments for us everyday folks, but they could use the data to create a better foundation when they make or are proposing a law change or new regulation. Add mandatory harvest data (accountability on all tags) before you get your new tags, and youve got a great system to pull stats from.  Thats another thread though....

[TheHunter]

Majorities of hunters from both pairs of pilot WMUs believe antler restrictions should be continued for the 2008 season. Sixty percent of hunters from 3C-3J and 77% from 3H-3K believe the pilot program should be continued. Only 29% of hunters from 3C-3J and 14% from 3H-3K believe the pilot should not be continued. The remainder in both pairs of WMUs explicitly said they have no opinion about whether antler restrictions should be continued.

This is from the paragraph right above where your quoting from.

[Doewhacker]

This is for those wondering where all of these numbers are from.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/hdruar08.pdf

Its not as rosie a picture as some would paint it.

[TheHunter]

Yeah, its just horrible trying to protect the yearlings from being shot.  Expecially when 7 out of 10 male deer killed in the state were either fawns or yearlings  ???

[wztirem]

This is for those wondering where all of these numbers are from.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/hdruar08.pdf

Its not as rosie a picture as some would paint it.

Thanks for the info. These statistics are dated. I wonder what the consensus thinks now!

[Doewhacker]

Right, you argued your way back to the fact that it is a social issue.    I do not care what you shoot, 1.5--2.5 makes no matter to me.. any one know the weight difference between 1.5 and 2.5?

[TheHunter]

How preventing a fawn or yearling from getting shot out a social issue.  And the difference in maturity in a 2.5 verses a fawn or yearling is leaps and bounds, perhaps not in weight as much as in intelligence and awareness.  Regardless, again, those with AR support it by majority.  I see the improvement, those I hunt with see the improvement, and those who have posted here in these WMU for the majority see the improvement.

Spin it any way you want, have fun, off to work.

[steve863]

Right, you argued your way back to the fact that it is a social issue.    I do not care what you shoot, 1.5--2.5 makes no matter to me.. any one know the weight difference between 1.5 and 2.5?

Your right, Doe.  All the DEC cares about is that deer get shot, they don't care if they are .5, 1.5, 2.5 or any specific age.  The AR people better start getting used to this.  The only people who care about this age nonsense are the AR people, and we all know why.  It has nothing to do with general herd health either.  A 1.5 buck would be passing the same genetics on to his offspring as a 5.5 would.  It's all about how big them horns might be on the ones they hopefully will get to shoot if we somehow can let them get older.  That's ALL it is in a nutshell!  Everything else is baloney. 

[Dom]

WILD LIFE POPULATION CONTROL IS THAT OK THEYRE ALL PART OF THE FOOD CHAIN NOT EVERY ONE IS A HEAD HUNTER THIS IS NOT A AS SEEN ON TV MOMENT THEY ALL TASTE GOOD TO ME WHENTHE TIME IS RIGHT YOU HEAD HUNTERS WILL GET YOURS

[Doc]

This is for those wondering where all of these numbers are from.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/hdruar08.pdf

Its not as rosie a picture as some would paint it.

Thank you! I was getting dizzy from all these contradictory numbers flying back and forth without any sources being given. I guess I will take the DEC's word for it as being the least biased. After all, as far as I know they have no axe to grind on the issue.

Doc

[Doc]

See, the DEC could stop all of this bickering and just have people take a 5 or 10 question poll when they buy their license each year. They could ask everyone the same set of questions each year and change up what questions are asked from year to year. That would be the one and only way that they could get a true feeling for how the hunting community really feels about certain subjects. If done correctly, all of the data could be broken down by WMU that the people live in and many other ways.

I agree but when does science go out the window and opinions take over.

Im not saying that they should take the poll data and directly use it to make law, but what the people want should be taken into consideration. I just said that they could stop the bickering by asking the same exact question of everyone that hunts, not just 500 or less people.

Just a comment on this little wrinkle on the topic: I agree that on something of this nature, the opinions do reflect the potential hunter satisfaction, and in light of our declining hunter numbers, it is probably a good idea that the DEC at leasts surveys hunter opinion on AR as regards it's current acceptance where it is being experimented with and those that may be facing hunting under such restrictions in the future. Also, I agree that the subject is important enough to warrant as close to 100% surveying as possible ....... and we all know there are ways of doing that.

Doc

[Fairgame]

Your right, Doe.  All the DEC cares about is that deer get shot, they don't care if they are .5, 1.5, 2.5 or any specific age.  The AR people better start getting used to this.  The only people who care about this age nonsense are the AR people, and we all know why.  It has nothing to do with general herd health either.  A 1.5 buck would be passing the same genetics on to his offspring as a 5.5 would.  It's all about how big them horns might be on the ones they hopefully will get to shoot if we somehow can let them get older.  That's ALL it is in a nutshell!  Everything else is baloney. 

Whats wrong with wanting to have the opportunity to shoot a nice buck on your own property.  Dont you have the opportunity to shoot what you want.  You have had it your whole hunting life. Why cant the person who wants to shoot a buck at their own place not have the opportunity to  cause these bucks were being shot out.  If hunter satisfaction is important then why are the the majority on any poll you see for AR's not important.  If the majority of poeple want something why should that be ignored.  Granted not all areas need ARs and we have said it is not for the entire state. But there are areas that need it.  I'm glad our area got them. I was skeptical in the beginning but that all changed after seeing the results.  Not being able to shoot a spike doesnt mean that you are not going to to have the opportunity to shoot a legal buck.  The DEC numbers show that the harvest of yearling bucks was down 65%, which means that there is that many more the following year walking around.  I cant see how in any way this will hurt the hunter who wants to shoot for meat if there are more deer surviving.  Maybee an extra few minutes or a few hours to harvest something legal cause you just let the spike walk.  The first year of ARs was the hardest for me cause the chance of filling a buck tag were low.  There werent many bucks around. But after the first year having the opportunity at a legal buck wasnt a problem.

[TheHunter]

Your right, Doe.  All the DEC cares about is that deer get shot, they don't care if they are .5, 1.5, 2.5 or any specific age.  The AR people better start getting used to this.  The only people who care about this age nonsense are the AR people, and we all know why.  It has nothing to do with general herd health either.  A 1.5 buck would be passing the same genetics on to his offspring as a 5.5 would.  It's all about how big them horns might be on the ones they hopefully will get to shoot if we somehow can let them get older.  That's ALL it is in a nutshell!  Everything else is baloney.

The crap you people spew is baloney, AR is here to stay in the WMU's where it is, soley based on the FACT that is allowing 1.5's to live AND majority want it.  Fact is your not in this WMU.  Nonsense in your terms to the minority, while the majority care.  That's ALL it is in a nutshell!

[Doewhacker]

"At the present time, DEC biologists see no specific management benefit associated with the antler restriction program and do not consider antler restrictions as necessary to improve herd condition. Deer populations throughout New York currently have healthy breeding patterns and adult sex ratios that ensure virtually all does are bred, conditions that indicate our deer herd is in good condition.

DEC believes that interest in antler restrictions is primarily an issue of hunter preference, and it is clear that hunters are divided. There is no biological urgency to implement a mandatory antler restriction program in the proposed deer management units, and hunters who wish to adopt an antler restriction policy or practice may already do so on a voluntary basis."

TheHunter... read the above again, your slim majority is fading into the back ground, enjoy your days of AR for the are coming to an end.

[steve863]

Whats wrong with wanting to have the opportunity to shoot a nice buck on your own property.  Dont you have the opportunity to shoot what you want.  You have had it your whole hunting life. Why cant the person who wants to shoot a buck at their own place not have the opportunity to  cause these bucks were being shot out.

Why would you not have the opportunity to shoot a nice buck without AR's if you hunted hard and knew what you were doing?  Doesn't matter where you hunt, either.  Where on earth did all these bucks get shot out??  Not in NYS that's for sure.  Plenty of deer were shot well before AR's were ever thought of and the hunting season was never completely shut down as far as I remember for lack of deer or bucks.  Sure, not all of them were trophies, are they all trophies today with AR's?? No way!  Never will be either.   

[Dom]

I will continue saying these ARS

are just head hunters just because you do not see big bucks dosent mean anything most are nocturnal unless you have cameras you might not no they are there the deer in my area seam to be adiquite if you dont want too shoot small bucks then just wait for another its not like fishing when you cant see what is biting your hook

[burmjohn]

Anyone have trail cam photo's over the years? Not that that's a perfect indicator, but it would be cool to see.