The Nuge explodes

[First-light]

The public doesnt think that, at least anyone with half a brain doesnt.

Of course they do, that's the way it works.

[Paula]

I think he does a lot of interviews because he is so out spoken about what rights are ours as Americans when it comes to the 2nd amendment, i am sure if others were so loud about it then they would be interviewed . I am not necessarily a fan of his and no matter what i see on here my view will never change but i am confused with the draft dodging, i have never heard about that until it was said on here last yr i guess. If its such a big deal then why would he be allowed to do concerts for service men and why i have i never heard about it in the news? Some of you want to beat into us that that makes him so worth less, but he is not the only one who has done it.

[Doc]

This is the way these threads typically go. The whole your not perfect either vibe. I'm not, not even close but I am also not a self appointed leader in the area of gun rights and our hunting heritage.

And that really seems to be the center of the whole issue isn't it. Those that would like to silence Nugent really are not willing or able to step in to take his place in publicly speaking out for gun owners and hunters. None of us have that bully pulpit of fame (or notoriety) from which to speak, do we? We are all as individuals pretty much silent and ineffective in the arena of public debate because all we do is preach to the choir and discuss these things only amongst ourselves and have no national standing to reach the other side. Most of that is because we simply don't have the platform, and part of it is because it is a lot easier to simply snipe at those who do. I must say that other than Nugent, I have found very few people who can and do talk to the general non-hunting public on a national stage while arguing (quite factually and effectively I might add) all the pro-hunting and pro gun ownership points with precision and passion. In fact, I guess I don't hear anybody taking on that set of issues on our behalf who isn't simply talking between hunters.

So I have to ask ..... you all have lots to say in terms of shooting down this guy. He does make an easy target of himself because he is not afraid to put himself on the firing line. And apparently there is no shortage of people overjoyed at taking potshots. So who exactly do you all have in mind to pick up the public debate in our behalf? Do any of you detractors think you have the ability to do a better job? Is there some other personality that you believe will take on these issues in a public fashion as Nugent does that will also do it according to your own narrow versions of perfection? Are you content to try to destroy this guy and leave this argument only to the antis. After all there are plenty from that side that are more than happy to preach to the public their version of the debate. Just about any person from the entertainment field will be more than happy to speak against guns and hunting and they have th eplatform to do it well. Are you all happy to leave the antis to frame the complete debate? My take is that Nugent is a fairly intelligent and effective speaker who is the only public figure willing to publicly stand up to the antis. I have not yet seen one of these antis who can successfully hold their own against this guy in a debate of the issues based on hard numbers and documented facts. To me that is a resource that should not be squandered by namby-pamby nit-pickers. We are pretty fond of shooting our own messengers. I am here to tell you that it may give some some sense of warm and fuzzy, but in reality we can't afford to keep on with that kind of nonsense. I see this kind of nit-picking in the way we treat our advocacy organizations and now here we go pulling the same crap with individuals who are willing to speak up on our behalf. Think what you want about the antis, but one thing you have to say for them is they are smart enough not to bicker among themselves. They have a singularity of purpose which hunters and gun owners just don't seem to be smart enough to match.

[First-light]

Your wrong Doc, Hunters and gun owners come from a diversified background. When push comes to shove you can't beat that. We are not bickering. There is an idiot, that has access to the spotlight, representing the gun owners and hunters of America. Some of us don't like it.

Thats all..........

[MountainHunter]

And that really seems to be the center of the whole issue isn't it. Those that would like to silence Nugent really are not willing or able to step in to take his place in publicly speaking out for gun owners and hunters. None of us have that bully pulpit of fame (or notoriety) from which to speak, do we? We are all as individuals pretty much silent and ineffective in the arena of public debate because all we do is preach to the choir and discuss these things only amongst ourselves and have no national standing to reach the other side. Most of that is because we simply don't have the platform, and part of it is because it is a lot easier to simply snipe at those who do. I must say that other than Nugent, I have found very few people who can and do talk to the general non-hunting public on a national stage while arguing (quite factually and effectively I might add) all the pro-hunting and pro gun ownership points with precision and passion. In fact, I guess I don't hear anybody taking on that set of issues on our behalf who isn't simply talking between hunters.

So I have to ask ..... you all have lots to say in terms of shooting down this guy. He does make an easy target of himself because he is not afraid to put himself on the firing line. And apparently there is no shortage of people overjoyed at taking potshots. So who exactly do you all have in mind to pick up the public debate in our behalf? Do any of you detractors think you have the ability to do a better job? Is there some other personality that you believe will take on these issues in a public fashion as Nugent does that will also do it according to your own narrow versions of perfection? Are you content to try to destroy this guy and leave this argument only to the antis. After all there are plenty from that side that are more than happy to preach to the public their version of the debate. Just about any person from the entertainment field will be more than happy to speak against guns and hunting and they have th eplatform to do it well. Are you all happy to leave the antis to frame the complete debate? My take is that Nugent is a fairly intelligent and effective speaker who is the only public figure willing to publicly stand up to the antis. I have not yet seen one of these antis who can successfully hold their own against this guy in a debate of the issues based on hard numbers and documented facts. To me that is a resource that should not be squandered by namby-pamby nit-pickers. We are pretty fond of shooting our own messengers. I am here to tell you that it may give some some sense of warm and fuzzy, but in reality we can't afford to keep on with that kind of nonsense. I see this kind of nit-picking in the way we treat our advocacy organizations and now here we go pulling the same crap with individuals who are willing to speak up on our behalf. Think what you want about the antis, but one thing you have to say for them is they are smart enough not to bicker among themselves. They have a singularity of purpose which hunters and gun owners just don't seem to be smart enough to match.

The bottom line Doc is that he does more harm than good. So what good is he? He hasn't gained any thing meaningful for us. If you believe he has I would like to hear about it. He is articulate enough and quick thinking enough to put an anti in their place from time to time. That isn't enough, especially so with his baggage and his tendency to take one step forward and two steps back by his ill conceived and some times illegal actions.He needs to have the respect of us and the general public. He doesn't have our unified respect (my guess is maybe 50%) and I guarantee that he is no where close to having the respect of the majority of the general public. The hunting boards are loaded now with discussions about Ted. I am actually pleased that the majority of the comments are not in favor of him. Go on the community forum on BOWSITE, and 24 Hour Campfire. Finally people are waking up to how negative a force he is for us.

[MountainHunter]

Hunters and gun owners come from a diversified background. When push comes to shove you can't beat that. We are not bickering. There is an idiot, that has access to the spotlight, representing the gun owners and hunters of America. Some of us don't like it.

Thats all..........

Edited to acknowledge First-lights clarification. A Gentlemanly thing to do on the part of First -light

Exactly!

Edited May 11, 2012 by Scot

[MountainHunter]

http://forums.bowsite.com/TF/bgforums/thread.cfm?forum=1&threadid=408202&MESSAGES=174&FF=CMThttp://forums.bowsit...ges=51&forum=36

Most of these guys get it!

Edited May 11, 2012 by Scot

[MountainHunter]

http://forums.bowsit...AGES=174&FF=CMT As well as these guys! Edited May 11, 2012 by Scot

[First-light]

Your wrong Doc, Hunters and gun owners come from a diversified background. When push comes to shove you can't beat that. We are not bickering. There is an idiot, that has access to the spotlight, representing the gun owners and hunters of America. Some of us don't like it.

Thats all..........

\

Doc,

I take back saying you are wrong. That is a bold statement to say on a thread. I enjoy everyone on this site, we just have some strong opinions. May I say I disagree with you.

[ELMER J. FUDD]

Out with Ted and in with The Duck Commander!

[WNYBuckHunter]

How do you know that? And, if you're correct, then why is he constantly doing interviews about all this stuff? It's not because of his music. It's because he's generally viewed as representing gun owners and hunters.

Because i have talked to many non hunters and non gun owners about the subject. He does the interviews because he can, and is in demand for talking about such things. Why? Well, he got his name out there from his music to begin with. The press likes to put him out there for his shock value, on both sides of the issue.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Your wrong Doc, Hunters and gun owners come from a diversified background. When push comes to shove you can't beat that. We are not bickering. There is an idiot, that has access to the spotlight, representing the gun owners and hunters of America. Some of us don't like it.

Thats all..........

And thats where you are wrong, he only represents himself. He only speaks for himself. While he does speak ABOUT issues, that doesnt make him a representative of anyone else.

[WNYBuckHunter]

Scot, I asked you a couple of questions. Why no answers?

[MountainHunter]

We don't agree, how likely is it that I am going to change your mind? How likely is it going to be that you are going to change mine?

You believe Ted only represents himself. I don't believe that for a moment. I have heard him express in a number of interviews other wise. You choose to believe what you wish to.

You don't believe that how someone's conducts them self in their personal life should be considered in your evaluation of them or their character I don't agree. It all matters, if I don't respect the person I am not going to have any interest in what they have to say.

I can't get to that place with Ted. To much baggage, to much controversy and instability, to much self promotion and ego.

Not my kind of person in any regard. Not a person I would choose to have people associate hunters and gunowners with.

[First-light]

And thats where you are wrong, he only represents himself. He only speaks for himself. While he does speak ABOUT issues, that doesnt make him a representative of anyone else.

Sorry Buck I don't see it that way, Guilty by association is how it works. A sad fact but that is how people see it. He does nothing for our sport. I understand where your coming from and I wish people would only associate his antics to the one individual but it don't work that way.

[Grouse]

You guys who say you know what the public in general thinks, are making assumptions. Can you post a poll that would back up what you are saying?

I believe the general public is smart enough to know who Ted is and what he does. I think they accept all of that and at the same time find it curious that he can involve himself quite intelligently in a very serious subject.

Those who believe he doesn't do the 2nd Amendment any good are also making assumptions. It may not be pretty how he does it, but he is bringing the issue to the general public and is doing it convincingly. The subject is on the table and is being discussed by folks who had no idea there was another side of the issue prior to Ted bringing it to their TV.

The public is smart enough to intepret what part of Ted is Rock & Roll, and what part of his message is factual and true. I believe they see him as a performer and do not think all hunters and shooters are looney because he acts that way to get attention.

Any intelligent member of the general public is wise enough to hear the facts he speaks and take them into consideration, while rejecting all of the bravado and rudeness of the rock star.

That, my friends, is how he is helping us. He is getting a positive, factual message about guns and hunting, out to the public, so they are hearing it and absorbing it, and he is doing it in an entertaining, albeit crude, fashion. But that is what the public tunes in to see. the train wreck coming. That's why he is getting the podium so often and that's why he does it.

Hunters and shooters with a negative, judgemental attitude about his style of getting the message out there are making a mistake. The media isn't going to give the podium to anyone who isn't going to bring in ratings, therefore the message will never get to the general public if it is coming from the likes of the perfect spokesman so many of you think it should come from.

The media wants the public to think all hunters and shooters are like Ted. I think the public knows we aren't, and is starting to realize the trash they've heard about guns and hunting is BS too. And you can all thank Ted for that.

[First-light]

I agree with you there about the media. The guy told Ted after he blew up, "thanks for making this a better interview" Sure they wanted to hear what Ted had to say but they also knew how to push his buttons. They got him............

[bubba]

any song posts yet? I sure would like to hear some Uncle Ted

[Doc]

I have actually listened to what he has to say and I've got to say that there really is not a whole lot there that I disagree with. I find him to be a guy that is a little rough around the edges as far as personality, but also a guy in complete control of the facts, that is very quick on his feet in a debate and a guy that very few antis can ever get the best of. I believe that most people who actually listen to his ranting, finish up saying, "You know, I can't really argue with any of that". I think we need more of those kinds of people and probably should stop trying to crucify anyone who takes center-stage and articulates these kinds of views.

So far, I haven't heard anyone argue against what he is saying. You all just wish it was someone else saying it. I've got news for you ..... there is no one else.

[Doc]

The bottom line Doc is that he does more harm than good. So what good is he? He hasn't gained any thing meaningful for us. If you believe he has I would like to hear about it. He is articulate enough and quick thinking enough to put an anti in their place from time to time. That isn't enough, especially so with his baggage and his tendency to take one step forward and two steps back by his ill conceived and some times illegal actions.He needs to have the respect of us and the general public. He doesn't have our unified respect (my guess is maybe 50%) and I guarantee that he is no where close to having the respect of the majority of the general public. The hunting boards are loaded now with discussions about Ted. I am actually pleased that the majority of the comments are not in favor of him. Go on the community forum on BOWSITE, and 24 Hour Campfire. Finally people are waking up to how negative a force he is for us.

I believe that that statement about whether he does more harm than good is pretty much an unsubstantiated opinion. Yes, opinion is what forums are meant for, but let's not confuse opinion with fact.

My thoughts are based solely on the factual ways that he presents gun and hunting issues. I mean you all have worked all around the fact that he alone engages the public and does frame and present the debate in factual ways that are impossible to argue with. You have all apparently missed the point that no one else is doing this. And apparently you feel that this kind of thing is not necessary.

Well let me point out for those that are unaware of it, that there is a whole crowd of very public, very well financed, and very dedicated and very vocal anti public figures working very hard for the hearts and minds of the uncommited. I do believe that those public anti-hunting and anti-gun personalities cannot go unchallenged. I don't happen to think that we have any spokespeople to squander especially when there are no other ones waiting to take on that role. So as stated before, while we spend all our energies shooting our own messengers, the opposition enjoys a united front, and dedicated singularity of purpose free of our style of self destructive nit-picking. That's not a real good situation for those of us that still believe in hunting and 2nd amendment rights.

[fasteddie]

Very well put Doc . I don't particularly care for the Nuge but he is one of the few that speaks out for the 2nd Amendment . And until someone else has the nads to speak out for Gun Rights , I will support him .

I often wonder how many of the folks that put him down cheer for their favorite NFL player that has kids by 5 different women , does drugs , steroids and has a criminal record . Hmmmmmmmmmmm !

[Grouse]

If you recall, there was a time when the spokesperson was Charlton Heston. A brilliant, well spoken, Acadamy Award winner and member of Hollywood's elite.

When he took a stand with gun rights advocates, the anti's tried to crucify him! They threw so much mud at him, it almost ruined his entire life's reputation as a stand up American. They even tried to cover up the fact he was a big civil rights advocate in the 60's that marched with Martin Luther King.

This is why nobody with any fame wants to take the gun rights podium. It's career suicide! They are all self centered cowards and care not for freedom, rights or the US Constitution if it means risking their precious reputations and bankrolls!

So I give Ted credit for taking this stand and speaking out. He's aleady made his fortune and is now looking at self actualization as his end of life goal. I respect that he really believes and couldn't care less what the anti's think of him, his message, or the way he presents it. He wants to make a difference about something he believes in, something he sees being destroyed by anti's.

I whole heartedly respect him for doing that, and yes I will give him a pass on the rest of it, because it doesn't help our side of the fight to attack him. The one issue we should all be concerned with, is the one issue he excells at!

[Grouse]

By the way...... If you think Nuge exploded in that interview, you've never seen him actually explode. He doesn't take crap from anyone, which I believe CBS edited out of that tape, and I respect him for that too.

[MountainHunter]

What you state as fact is your interpretation of his message. The fact is that he doesnt have a balanced audience because of his history and thd way je conducts himself.The fact is that a large percentage of the hunting community thinks that he does more harm than good. Do you dispute that?

You are welcome to designate any one you wish as who you care to be a representative of your intersts and beliefs. Ted is not it for me, and he is not even close. I would rather have thousands of us gaining the respect of those in our communities versus a self appointed Ted alienating a large percentage of those who hear his message. That is if they listen to him at all.

[Grouse]

A large percentage of the hunting community doesn't believe their gun rights are in jeopardy, nor do they belong to the NRA. That proves how informed and intelligent they are. So what they think about Ted means nothing.

You can believe your personal attempts to elevate hunting and gun rights in this country are working wonders, but the anti's say you are insignificant in their eyes and can be squashed like a bug.

Profess you doctrine of these things to the general public and then ask them what they think. Chances are they will say you are self centered and focused on your opinion, just as any fanatic is. What does that do to educate them or change their opinion? Nothing.

You and your "thousands" of friends won't reach even 1% of the public that Ted does, if you spend the rest of your life trying. It's a numbers game. It's advertising an idea. The grassroots approach has been under attack by the anti's for decades. It didn't work because things got worse for us. Time to take a different approach.